Bernie talks population control through abortion.

[CharisRose]

Those are for women (not kids as you initially wrote about so you are moving the goal posts) and most of the research shows that MOST women do not suffer long term effects NOR regret their decision.

And why should that matter? People make hard decisions in life all the time, doesnt mean they are the wrong decisions. Divorce is one of the most stressful things people go thru in life, yet they do it in the best interests of their families and their futures and it doesnt mean it was the wrong thing to do.

Page# 21 Post# 203

Originally Posted by Lursa View Post
There are no negative effects of abortion on society. I realize that you didnt claim there are, but if there are, please list them. It would be a handy illustration.

Actually, I have not moved the goal post.

Since, you stated that there are no negative effects of abortion on society as if it were a fact.

And, then requested a list.

I, simply provided my first perhaps negative example using children.

Since, you disregarded my first perhaps negative example.

I, simply provided another perhaps negative example that may negatively effect society for your inspection using women.

Both children and women are people who make up a portion of a society.

Perhaps, there are some men who are negatively effected by abortion when they want the child to be born but the woman does not and she has an abortion.

Perhaps, there are some men who are negatively effected by abortion when they agree with the women to have an abortion.

I thought it mattered to you because you asked the question.

Roseann

 

[CharisRose]

I have the luxury of advocating "population control" by abortion - I'm alive enough to advocate it. I'm also alive enough to adore Comrade Sanders and "save the planet" with him by reducing the human population. I'll stay alive though, as will Bernie and that woman who so desperately wants to reduce the population "for the planet". The actual sacrifice to reduce the population will have to be done by other people.

Yes, the low class deplorable's will be the sacrifice for the greater good... the High Class Superiors and their followers as long as they continue to obey orders.

The saving of the planet is just an excuse to get 'er done!

imho Roseann

 

[Lursa]

Page# 21 Post# 203

Originally Posted by Lursa View Post
There are no negative effects of abortion on society. I realize that you didnt claim there are, but if there are, please list them. It would be a handy illustration.

Actually, I have not moved the goal post.

Since, you stated that there are no negative effects of abortion on society as if it were a fact.

And, then requested a list.

I, simply provided my first perhaps negative example using children.

Since, you disregarded my first perhaps negative example.

I, simply provided another perhaps negative example that may negatively effect society for your inspection using women.

Both children and women are people who make up a portion of a society.

Perhaps, there are some men who are negatively effected by abortion when they want the child to be born but the woman does not and she has an abortion.

Perhaps, there are some men who are negatively effected by abortion when they agree with the women to have an abortion.

I thought it mattered to you because you asked the question.

Roseann

I did disregard your unsourced conclusions. And no...those arent effects on society...unless you can prove how the accumulation of those individual feelings has negatively affected society.

 

[CharisRose]

I did disregard your unsourced conclusions. And no...those arent effects on society...unless you can prove how the accumulation of those individual feelings has negatively affected society.

I have no problem with you disregarding my opinions because that is all I provided was my opinion in rebuttal to your opinion.

Your QUOTE: Originally Posted by Lursa View Post
There are no negative effects of abortion on society. I realize that you didnt claim there are, but if there are, please list them. It would be a handy illustration.

The sentence in bold is your opinion. You did not provide a source.

So, I had no need to provide you with a source.

Opinion for opinion. Source for source.

Roseann

 

[Athanasius68]

Abortion can be viewed as a positive good by the women that need to choose it. And probably most of the men that impregnated them.

good=being able to do what you 'need' to do

Elective abortions are almost always because of an unplanned, accidental pregnancy...neither party is looking to have a kid.

It can be viewed as positive by anyone that believes in enabling women's opportunities and contributions in society because we believe in the women knowing what is best for them to ensure that.

Yet again, abortion as a positive good was addressed in the context of avoiding environmental catastrophe, not in the context of a woman making a choice.

 

[CharisRose]

I did disregard your unsourced conclusions. And no...those arent effects on society...unless you can prove how the accumulation of those individual feelings has negatively affected society.

Yes, you did and I acknowledged that you disregarded with my opinion and that I had no problem with you disregarding my opinion.

You requested a list in opposition to your opinion.

When I provided my opinions, I was simply following the standard you set for yourself.

That standard being.... a personal opinion without a source.

Based on the standards you have utilized for yourself...

I think, I should be free to disregard your opinion... since you have never provided a source.

The standard you have set for me alone.

I think, we may need to just agree to disagree

Roseann

 

[Lursa]

I have no problem with you disregarding my opinions because that is all I provided was my opinion in rebuttal to your opinion.

Your QUOTE: Originally Posted by Lursa View Post
There are no negative effects of abortion on society. I realize that you didnt claim there are, but if there are, please list them. It would be a handy illustration.

The sentence in bold is your opinion. You did not provide a source.

So, I had no need to provide you with a source.

Opinion for opinion. Source for source.

Roseann

It's not my opinion that there are no negative effects of abortion on society. It's a fact...I've done research, I've asked others to list them. There are none.

 

[Lursa]

Yet again, abortion as a positive good was addressed in the context of avoiding environmental catastrophe, not in the context of a woman making a choice.

No, you are misinterpreting that, possibly on purpose. The only reason I mention women's individual choice is to demonstrate that even with a conclusion that abortion is amoral, it's *still* not nor would be in the US a solution to overpopulation because it's not a program or initiative, nothing is being proposed to incentive it. It would still always be at the discretion of individual women.

 

[CharisRose]

It's not my opinion that there are no negative effects of abortion on society. It's a fact...I've done research, I've asked others to list them. There are none.

Based on the standard you have set for others.... sources..... but not for yourself.

Your statement... that it is a fact because you've done research remains your opinion... "that it is a fact".

A double standard comes to mind.

We will just need to agree to disagree. And, equally disregard each others opinions. That would be called fair play.

Roseann

 

[ludin]

Not this again :roll:

Blaming Margaret Sanger's views on racism/eugenics for *today's* PP organization is like blaming the FF's like Jefferson, who kept slaves for how we interpret the Constitution *today*. Society evolves and moves on and institutions do so as well.

If you want to throw out PP because of Sanger's views, shall we throw out the Constitution as well because of slave-owning founders? :doh

Their organization is still practicing the same thing today.
show us where the constitution still allows for slavery, and then you might have an argument.
PP hasn't changed so you need to do some research on what is going on.
then you might have an argument.

 

[ludin]

I'm well aware of the principles on which Planned Parenthood was founded, but that is irrelevant to my question. Why would you blame the business offering abortion services when it's the women who are choosing to partake of them? If black women cared overmuch about Sanger's opinions, why do they still choose to get abortions?

like most people they simply are not educated on the founding principles of PP.

 

[ludin]

Sanger was not a racist. That is a right wing lie.

Umm no it isn't.

MSPP / Newsletter / Newsletter #28 (Fall 2001)

 

[Irredentist]

like most people they simply are not educated on the founding principles of PP.

And what, you think that if they WERE educated it would make them not want abortions? Why wouldn't they simply get them from somewhere else.

 

[ludin]

And what, you think that if they WERE educated it would make them not want abortions? Why wouldn't they simply get them from somewhere else.

why do you support the suppression of minorities through abortion?
one of the biggest reasons that the black community is not getting ahead is that they
are killing themselves off faster than they can be born.

 

[Athanasius68]

No, you are misinterpreting that, possibly on purpose. The only reason I mention women's individual choice is to demonstrate that even with a conclusion that abortion is amoral, it's *still* not nor would be in the US a solution to overpopulation because it's not a program or initiative, nothing is being proposed to incentive it. It would still always be at the discretion of individual women.

Ok-- so given a choice between the environmental catastrophe of overpopulation and a womans' CHOICE to contribute to that catastrophe, the environmental catastrophe is to be preferred?
I mean, that's fair enough. But it isn't what sanders was asked, nor to what he responded.

 

[Moderate Right]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2019/09/05/bernie-sanders-abortion-population-control/

I'm not really much of a pro-lifer but man, this seems like it could go very wrong to me.
C'mon Bernie...Birth control? WTF?

Well, Bernie didn't specifically say he wanted to control the world's population by allowing other countries to get abortions and still get US aid. He used the term "birth control". Bernie would have to clarify exactly what he meant by birth control but, ultimately, it would be the foreign countries wanting US aid to decide if birth control meant getting abortions. So, that would be a rather sad outcome of the situation if abortions would be exponentially increased as a method of world population control. I'm perfectly fine with relaxing the terminology regarding birth control (but not abortions). That seems a little ridiculous to me. Abortions should never be used as a method of birth control, not even in the US.

 

[Irredentist]

Well, Bernie didn't specifically say he wanted to control the world's population by allowing other countries to get abortions and still get US aid. He used the term "birth control". Bernie would have to clarify exactly what he meant by birth control but, ultimately, it would be the foreign countries wanting US aid to decide if birth control meant getting abortions. So, that would be a rather sad outcome of the situation if abortions would be exponentially increased as a method of world population control. I'm perfectly fine with relaxing the terminology regarding birth control (but not abortions). That seems a little ridiculous to me. Abortions should never be used as a method of birth control, not even in the US.

What's wrong with abortions as birth control? I mean ideally you would avoid pregnancy to begin with, but if it's too late for that then abortion is a viable alternative.

 

[Irredentist]

why do you support the suppression of minorities through abortion?
one of the biggest reasons that the black community is not getting ahead is that they
are killing themselves off faster than they can be born.

How are more babies going to advance the black community? Wealth is what will advance them. More babies aren't going to help with that, quite the opposite. Women most commonly abort for economic, not being able to support the child, etc. Therefore, access to abortion helps black women secure control over their own economic future.

 

[ludin]

How are more babies going to advance the black community? Wealth is what will advance them. More babies aren't going to help with that, quite the opposite. Women most commonly abort for economic, not being able to support the child, etc. Therefore, access to abortion helps black women secure control over their own economic future.

lmao ok you believe that.

 

[Irredentist]

lmao ok you believe that.

Babies are an expense. Every one you have increases the amount of resources you must devote to childcare. So I ask again, how will more babies advance the black community?

 

[Moderate Right]

What's wrong with abortions as birth control? I mean ideally you would avoid pregnancy to begin with, but if it's too late for that then abortion is a viable alternative.

Abortion is murder and it is appalling.

 

[jondo]

Bernie Jumped the Shark from Socialist to Full Blown Communist

 

[Irredentist]

Abortion is murder and it is appalling.

So what? Your emotional distaste for the procedure is irrelevant, women have the ability to terminate their own pregnancies. It isn't human law that decides this, but natural law. If a woman doesn't want to give birth there are any number of ways to induce miscarriage. How does it benefit society to punish them for this?

 

[Moderate Right]

So what? Your emotional distaste for the procedure is irrelevant, women have the ability to terminate their own pregnancies. It isn't human law that decides this, but natural law. If a woman doesn't want to give birth there are any number of ways to induce miscarriage. How does it benefit society to punish them for this?

Murder is murder, no matter how much you try to justify it.

 

[Lursa]

Based on the standard you have set for others.... sources..... but not for yourself.

Your statement... that it is a fact because you've done research remains your opinion... "that it is a fact".

A double standard comes to mind.

We will just need to agree to disagree. And, equally disregard each others opinions. That would be called fair play.

Roseann

No, it's the truth because it's based on facts that have not been refuted or disproven. Those effects factually dont exist. If they do...prove it.