Montecresto
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Absolutely spot on Fiddy. The real elephant in the room regarding this issue is the greed displayed by College and University Administrators. When the money became so easy for students to get their hands on, tuition costs went through the roof.
It's a crime, and Sander's plan will only exacerbate the corrupted atmosphere.
putting a significant paywall between students and education is poor national policy, because it discourages kids from attending college. i'll explain it to you one last time since you haven't quite picked up on it : you're paying more in entitlements on the back end because kids who don't go on to post secondary education end up collecting more in entitlements. you're paying the money anyway. all we have to do is shift some national priorities, and we could probably guarantee debt free access to college to every student. it would probably mean ending foreverwar, but we should do that anyway. or, conversely, if neoconservatives and others won't consider ending foreverwar, then we would raise taxes appropriately if needed. my guess is that we'd see savings on the back end, though.
Its not a straw man its a question. Why cant you answer it? You asked If I was going to "move beyond thievery?". Well 1.)What thievery am I supporting? And 2.)If what I think you are stating falls under 'thievery', the 50cent tax on $100 of stock, are all taxes "thievery"?
Its not a straw man, its asking questions.
yes it is and no amount of your denial will change what it is and that is a strawman.Again, not a distortion and not a straw man. Questioning and challenging your positions. So again I will ask: "If college is free will they not work? Is something wrong with university being provided? Why is something wrong if university is provided and they dont have to pay any or as much as you did? If someones experience is different than yours because of a policy changed does that make it inherently "wrong" or "bad"?"
a link that you can give all the money you want to the federal government. if you feel that they are not getting enough of YOUR money then you are than happy to give it.Whats this then? "I gave you the link that you can give all the money you want to the federal government"
nope giving you a chance to live up to what you spout.So pick and choose what we fund?
Why is what? Why dont people just randomly donate money to the state to fund universal college education? Well because we have these things called taxes and expecting people just to hand over money to the federal government at will is not going to fund universal college education because its not law or policy.
nope look at your name and the title that you claim it is called truth.For all your talk about fallacies, this is pure irony.
Why is taxing stock like this thievery?
I don't know what this pay wall is you are referring to college costs money.
get loans, get grants, get scholarhips and work. that is how most people pay for college.
I know it is a personal responsibility another 4 letter word in the liberal dictionary.
again I posted the link and have given you the opportunity for you and your liberal friends to start your own scholarship fund with your own person donations.
there is no reason to thieve from other people.
you seem to not want to do this.
you know damned well that we can't send everyone to college debt free via donations. what you can't seem to grasp is how much that paywall hurts America. the idea of taking on that much debt is a serious deterrent to a lot of 18 year old kids. meanwhile, Europe is making post secondary education a lot more accessible. so basically, in thirty years, the populations in Europe are going to be a whole ****load more educated than ours, and their intellectual pool will be a lot deeper. this is just one more reason why it is completely stupid to price anyone out of an education. it's horrible national policy.
it's just unreal. let's see, we can tell the kids to bootstrap it and then pay entitlements to those who fell through the cracks, or we can educate them so that a lot fewer of them fall through the cracks. what should we do? why, bootstraps and entitlements, of course. huzzah!
:roll:
The way I see is it the US has poured billions more into educating our kids with no educational results, far from it. Our students are less educated in spite of billions spent. i would suggest that problem be fixed fist so that once out out of high school they have been educated to go to collage. The first step is to have a voucher system then parents and students can choose a school based on performance and not have to go to a school of nonperformance.
i'm open to new ideas in secondary education, but my state has pretty much disgusted me. it is run by right wing ideologues who do what they can to hinder public education in favor of privatized education. ****, our ex-state superintendent even got caught boosting the assessment of a private school that wasn't performing. i'm fine with private competing with public for quality of education, but not when the state is stacking the deck.
another policy change idea that i support is requiring that kids finish high school or get a GED. there is absolutely no reason to let a kid make a stupid decision like dropping out. it ends up costing society a ton of money. every student should be required to at least finish high school.
How about a transaction tax on food sales instead? That way everyone has some skin in the game
I just proved it
Everyone already has skin in the game if that is what you call paying taxes.
On a micro level, absolutely it does. I seriously doubt it makes a difference on a macro level.
If everyone had a college degree, would that necessarily make them more productive? Who would do the service and manual jobs now, which we depend on?
My instinct says that we would see a slight increase in overall productivity, but, at the end of the day, you'd simply be moving the bar to where college becomes the new high school.
Part of the reason a college education is valuable today is that not everyone does it. It takes motivation.
Motivation, not education, is the biggest ingredient in success
Not when it comes to the tax proposed by Sanders.. Sorry to disappoint you
I'm in the business of trying to change secondary education practices for certain students, so I'm with you on that broad mentality.
With the GED, I'm absolutely mystified as to why it makes sense to completely penalize a student for dropping out and having the good sense to address the mistake they made at 16 or 17 years old. For one thing, the damn tests can cost as much as I had to fork over for Praxis exams in university teacher preparation colleges. They have made that test far harder than what regular students have to go through. This dramatically increases the time they have to spend preparing for the examination (add another year or two). If non-drop outs get to take an easier test or sit back with a mediocre accumulation of credits, why in the hell should drop outs be forced to be far better students than everyone else in order to get an entry-level education certification? All that does is ensure that a significant population remains in the underclass, thereby reducing their station in life at the same time as increasing the likelihood that they will rely on government aid.
I believe that not all people would pay the tax proposed by Sanders, The Robin Hood tax. And for the record, not everyone who earns income pays the income tax. However, a transaction tax on food would get more, if not all, people on the record as having skin in the gameSo you believe that ALL people pay EVERY tax?
But if you want to get picky - ALL people who buy or sell stock would indeed pay this tax. Just like all people who earn income pay income tax. Or all people who buy gasoline pay the gas tax. Or any number of taxes.
I figured you had never taken a logic class in college it shows.
I believe that not all people would pay the tax proposed by Sanders, The Robin Hood tax. And for the record, not everyone who earns income pays the income tax. However, a transaction tax on food would get more, if not all, people on the record as having skin in the game
So all taxes are "thievery"? Are you against all taxes then?yes thievery is the attempt to take something that doesn't belong to you and give it to someone else or take it for yourself.
Haha something getting mentioned that is used to challenge your position is not a straw man.. Using the same knowledge you use to draw a logical conclusion in the form of a question is not a straw man. Its literally using your own knowledge and train of thought to ask a question.no it is a strawman I didn't mention other taxes.
Nope. Its a question.that is the distortion.
:lamo Oh no! You have to answer questions! Why cant you just answer the questions?next you attempt to get me to defend your distortion of what I said and you argue the distortion.
Nope. I asked you a question....you then commit yet another fallacy with the paint brush effect. if this means this then it means all.
:lamoyou are just one logical fallacy after another.
What are my questions then? I'm trying to figure out your position, and on what logical grounds you reach your conclusions by asking questions...you aren't challenging my position you are distorting my position then trying to argue the distortion that is why it is a strawman LOL.
It very much seems to be an argument of voluntarily giving your money to the federal government as an alternative to this tax as a means to pay for college education...a link that you can give all the money you want to the federal government. if you feel that they are not getting enough of YOUR money then you are than happy to give it.
So do you extend this logic to all government programs or just this one? And if so why just this one?nope giving you a chance to live up to what you spout.
Yup. Thats usually how laws work.So unless you are threatened with force to give up your money you won't do it?
1.)Again I am not a liberalfunny I thought you and liberals would be happy to freely give up your money? but you won't
By calling for "legislation which is offset byimposing a Wall Street speculation fee on investment houses, hedge funds, and other speculators of0.5% on stock trades (50 cents for every $100 worth of stock), a 0.1% fee on bonds, and a 0.005%fee on derivatives" ( http://www.sanders.senate.gov/download/collegeforallsummary/?inline=file ), which would pay for tuition free public college? Supporting that legislation thus makes "liberals" hypocrites because, what? They dont do what? Fund it all with their own money?so the hypocrisy is seen for what it is.
I am a socialist, not a liberal. And even supporting free public college does not make one a socialist.nope look at your name and the title that you claim it is called truth.
Constitutional authority. Politics. The right to hold an opinion.What right do you have to that money in the first place? 0
As I said, a tax on food would make sure everyone had skin in the game which is a more equitable approachYou are correct about they come tax. Thank you for the correction.
I do not know the intricate details of the Sanders proposal but I would favor a tax on ALL stock transactions.
I would much much rather tax stocks transactions than something very basic to living like food.
As I said, a tax on food would make sure everyone had skin in the game which is a more equitable approach
you know damned well that we can't send everyone to college debt free via donations. what you can't seem to grasp is how much that paywall hurts America.
the idea of taking on that much debt is a serious deterrent to a lot of 18 year old kids. meanwhile, Europe is making post secondary education a lot more accessible. so basically, in thirty years, the populations in Europe are going to be a whole ****load more educated than ours, and their intellectual pool will be a lot deeper. this is just one more reason why it is completely stupid to price anyone out of an education. it's horrible national policy.
it's just unreal. let's see, we can tell the kids to bootstrap it and then pay entitlements to those who fell through the cracks, or we can educate them so that a lot fewer of them fall through the cracks. what should we do? why, bootstraps and entitlements, of course. huzzah!
:roll:
You have proved nothing of the sort. All that you proved is that not everyone is going to just give their money away unless it benefits them directly. And that applies to conservatives just as much as liberals.
So instead of supporting your own idea you demand that other people pay for your nonsense? why should they?
again what pay wall? College costs money. there are plenty of ways to pay for it. I did and so have millions of other americans.
again you want to promise them a free education then you fund it along with all your liberal friends.
yet it doesn't stop millions of kids from graduating college every year. amazing isn't that your appeals to emotion fail when looking at reality.
there are plenty of affordable college's. that provide good educations.
more appeal to emotion. the fact is nothing you even if it is free will make them go if they don't want to.
then again you still can't justify taking other peoples money to do it when you won't even spend your own money to do it as I have proven.
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