Being concerned about 17 trillion in debt makes one an ' extremist'?[W:133:739:998]

[Vern]

Re: Being concerned about 17 trillion in debt makes one an ' extremist'?

What really bothers me about people like you is you always talk about greed in the terms of personal greed, never govt. greed nor in the terms of people accepting personal responsibility for the choices and decisions they make. Not one individual was forced to take out a loan that they couldn't afford?

Do you think owning a home is a civil right? How about those millions and millions who don't own a home and weren't affected by the housing bubble? How about govt. greed, where does that play in the liberal world?

Are you telling me that all banks requested TARP money? Are you telling me that all banks took TARP money? Why should the govt. ever bail out a private entity or poor personal behavior?

This issue can be beat to death but the reality is it still boils down to personal responsibility and people making the right choices. Today we have an ideology, liberalism, where there are no consequences for poor choices and behavior. The Federal Govt. continues to see to that

pointless deflecting babble but a huge improvement over your typical dishonest posts where you pretended not to understand Q4, pretended the mortgage bubble only affected people buying houses and pretended the Great Bush Recession was one bad quarter.

 

[dad2three2001]

Re: Being concerned about 17 trillion in debt makes one an ' extremist'?

Thanks again for the articles. It was nice to reread the Econonist's again. It points to the relationship between the two bubbles and the central banks' participation in the buildup is indicated in the mention of the low rates, which is the result of the huge amount of money sloshing around.
As to the questiin of 1990 you refer to it is important to realize how much time it takes for money pumped into the economy in a cooperative in Waurichen to a family buying a house in Rick's Road, where it means a marginal increase in prices that influences the decision to buy that increases the price that....that drives the bubble. Each sale needs to be organized and will take the time it takes. Buukding a bubble is work of more than just a year or two.

Right, it was the feds fault, NOT Bush ignoring regulators REPEATED warnings about MASSIVE BANKSTER FRAUD *shaking head*



YES, JUST A BUBBLE

"The "turmoil in financial markets clearly was triggered by a dramatic weakening of underwriting standards for U.S. subprime mortgages, beginning in late 2004 and extending into 2007," the President's Working Group on Financial Markets OCT 2008"



The historical "originate and hold" mortgage model was replaced with the "originate and distribute" model. Incentives were such that you could get paid just to originate and sell the mortgages down the pipeline, passing the risk along.

 

[dad2three2001]

Re: Being concerned about 17 trillion in debt makes one an ' extremist'?

You must consider the lags involved. Then it no longer will seem weird.

LAGS INVOLVED? lol

The historical "originate and hold" mortgage model was replaced with the "originate and distribute" model. Incentives were such that you could get paid just to originate and sell the mortgages down the pipeline, passing the risk along.


The "turmoil in financial markets clearly was triggered by a dramatic weakening of underwriting standards for U.S. subprime mortgages, beginning in late 2004 and extending into 2007," the President's Working Group on Financial Markets OCT 2008

“From 2000 through 2007, a remarkable run-up in global home prices occurred (see chart). But that trend has reversed abruptly.
A Global View of the Housing Bubble | The Big Picture


One president controlled the regulators that not only let banks stop checking income but cheered them on. And as president Bush could enact the very policies that caused the Bush Mortgage Bubble and he did. And his party controlled congress.

 

[dad2three2001]

NOTHING originated from Fannie and Freddie. They PURCHASED loans that originated from lenders like CountryWide.

Also do you know what "relative" means ?

Just because Fannie and Freddie lost a little bussines over a couple of years doesn't mean they hadn't already acquired the vast majority of sub-prime debt.

By 2008 the Government backed GSEs held or guaranteed a total of 19.2 million sub-prime loans out of 27 million total sub-prime loans.


Where do you think the FED is buying all of their MBSs from ?

And yes, Clinton loaded up the GSEs with his own appointments and the Democrats fought off any GSE regulation from 2000-2008.

They lied in front of Republican chaired comittees

The Financial Crisis Inquiry Commission (FCIC) panel looked carefully at this argument and also ended up finding it doesn't work. So those who blame the GSEs can't get the numbers to work when they make up categories.

No, Marco Rubio, government did not cause the housing crisis


Testimony from Treasury Secretary John Snow to the REPUBLICAN CONGRESS concerning the 'regulation’ of the GSE’s 2003

Mr. Frank: ...Are we in a crisis now with these entities?

Secretary Snow. No, that is a fair characterization, Congressman Frank, of our position. We are not putting this proposal before you because of some concern over some imminent danger to the financial system for housing; far from it.
- THE TREASURY DEPARTMENT'S VIEWS ON THE REGULATION OF GOVERNMENT SPONSORED ENTERPRISES

Yep, he said "far from it"



Fannie, Freddie to Suffer Under New Rule, Frank Says

Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac would suffer financially under a Bush administration requirement that they channel more mortgage financing to people with low incomes, said the senior Democrat on a congressional panel that sets regulations for the companies.


So if your narrative is "GSEs are to blame" then you have to blame bush


http://democrats.financialservices....s/112/06-17-04-new-Fannie-goals-Bloomberg.pdf



So conservatives are for more regulation and Democrats are for less?


lol

The critics have forgotten that the House passed a GSE reform bill in 2005 that could well have prevented the current crisis, says Mr Oxley (R), now vice-chairman of Nasdaq.”

“What did we get from the White House? We got a one-finger salute.”

 

[joG]

Re: Being concerned about 17 trillion in debt makes one an ' extremist'?

Right, it was the feds fault, NOT Bush ignoring regulators REPEATED warnings about MASSIVE BANKSTER FRAUD *shaking head*



YES, JUST A BUBBLE

"The "turmoil in financial markets clearly was triggered by a dramatic weakening of underwriting standards for U.S. subprime mortgages, beginning in late 2004 and extending into 2007," the President's Working Group on Financial Markets OCT 2008"



The historical "originate and hold" mortgage model was replaced with the "originate and distribute" model. Incentives were such that you could get paid just to originate and sell the mortgages down the pipeline, passing the risk along.

Actually it was what bubbles usually are. Poorly structured market, too much and bad regulation and too much money chasing to few investments. Then you add a few problems like conflicting priorities requiring limited funds, fear of recession and a large assortment of innovations most people were incapable of understanding at the micro level let alone predicting, what their impacts and consequences might be at the macro or global level would be, mix in humongous growth over two decades and the brew is getting there.

 

[dad2three2001]

Re: Being concerned about 17 trillion in debt makes one an ' extremist'?

What really bothers me about people like you is you always talk about greed in the terms of personal greed, never govt. greed nor in the terms of people accepting personal responsibility for the choices and decisions they make. Not one individual was forced to take out a loan that they couldn't afford?

Do you think owning a home is a civil right? How about those millions and millions who don't own a home and weren't affected by the housing bubble? How about govt. greed, where does that play in the liberal world?

Are you telling me that all banks requested TARP money? Are you telling me that all banks took TARP money? Why should the govt. ever bail out a private entity or poor personal behavior?

This issue can be beat to death but the reality is it still boils down to personal responsibility and people making the right choices. Today we have an ideology, liberalism, where there are no consequences for poor choices and behavior. The Federal Govt. continues to see to that

Right-wingers want to erase how George Bush's "Homeowner Society" helped cause the economic collapse



2004 Republican Convention:

Another priority for a new term is to build an ownership society, because ownership brings security and dignity and independence.
...

Thanks to our policies, home ownership in America is at an all- time high.

(APPLAUSE)

Tonight we set a new goal: 7 million more affordable homes in the next 10 years, so more American families will be able to open the door and say, "Welcome to my home."

The FBI has been warning of an "epidemic" of mortgage fraud since September 2004. It also reports that lenders initiated 80% of these frauds


The FBI correctly identified the epidemic of mortgage control fraud at such an early point that the financial crisis could have been averted had the Bush administration acted with even minimal competence

William K. Black: The Two Documents Everyone Should Read to Better Understand the Crisis



The onset of the recent financial crisis in late 2007 created an intellectual crisis for conservatives, who had been touting for decades the benefits of a hands-off approach to financial market regulation. As the crisis quickly spiraled out of control, it quickly became apparent that the massive credit bubble of the mid-2000s, followed by the inevitable bust that culminated with the financial markets freeze in the fall of 2008, occurred predominantly among those parts of the financial system that were least regulated, or where regulations existed but were largely unenforced.

Predictably, many conservatives sought to blame the bogeymen they always blamed.


Politics Most Blatant | Center for American Progress


1. Private markets, rather than the GSEs, created the subprime mortgage boom.

2. The Community Reinvestment Act and the GSE's affordability mission didn't cause the crisis.


3. There's a lot of research to back this up and little against it.


4. Conservatives arguments tend to blur the definition of subprime

No, Marco Rubio, government did not cause the housing crisis





The "turmoil in financial markets clearly was triggered by a dramatic weakening of underwriting standards for U.S. subprime mortgages, beginning in late 2004 and extending into 2007," the President's Working Group on Financial Markets OCT 2008


One president controlled the regulators that not only let banks stop checking income but cheered them on. And as president Bush could enact the very policies that caused the Bush Mortgage Bubble and he did. And his party controlled congress.

 

[dad2three2001]

Re: Being concerned about 17 trillion in debt makes one an ' extremist'?

Actually it was what bubbles usually are. Poorly structured market, too much and bad regulation and too much money chasing to few investments. Then you add a few problems like conflicting priorities requiring limited funds, fear of recession and a large assortment of innovations most people were incapable of understanding at the micro level let alone predicting, what their impacts and consequences might be at the macro or global level would be, mix in humongous growth over two decades and the brew is getting there.

R/W NONSENSE. Shocking

 

[Fenton]

You posted something your own posts prove is
not true. By all means back up your post that "freddie and fannie have 5 trillion in subprime loans". dont babble about everything else, back up your point.

The over 5 Trillion in Sub-Prime securities and loans owned by Fannie and Freddie ?

I just got through posting links to support that, to " Dad of three ".

Time for you to fess up and admit your'e entire Bush blame is based on fantasy and left wing talking points.

 

[Fenton]

The Financial Crisis Inquiry Commission (FCIC) panel looked
carefully at this argument and also ended up finding it doesn't work. So those who blame the GSEs can't get the numbers to work when they make up categories.

No, Marco Rubio, government did not cause the housing crisis


Testimony from Treasury Secretary John Snow to the REPUBLICAN CONGRESS concerning the 'regulation’ of the GSE’s 2003

Mr. Frank: ...Are we in a crisis now with these entities?

Secretary Snow. No, that is a fair characterization, Congressman Frank, of our position. We are not putting this proposal before you because of some concern over some imminent danger to the financial system for housing; far from it.
- THE TREASURY DEPARTMENT'S VIEWS ON THE REGULATION OF GOVERNMENT SPONSORED ENTERPRISES

Yep, he said "far from it"



Fannie, Freddie to Suffer Under New Rule, Frank Says

Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac would suffer financially under a Bush administration requirement that they channel more mortgage financing to people with low incomes, said the senior Democrat on a congressional panel that sets regulations for the companies.


So if your narrative is "GSEs are to blame" then you have to blame bush


http://democrats.financialservices....s/112/06-17-04-new-Fannie-goals-Bloomberg.pdf



So conservatives are for more regulation and Democrats are for less?


lol

The critics have forgotten that the House passed a GSE reform bill in 2005 that could well have prevented the current crisis, says Mr Oxley (R), now vice-chairman of Nasdaq.”

“What did we get from the White House? We got a one-finger salute.”

Wait, did you just reference the Pelosi led finqncial crisis inquiry ??

Are you KIDDING ME ??

Whats wrong with you ??

And quit being dishonest ? What did Snow say in 2005 ?

 

[joG]

Re: Being concerned about 17 trillion in debt makes one an ' extremist'?

LAGS INVOLVED? lol

The historical "originate and hold" mortgage model was replaced with the "originate and distribute" model. Incentives were such that you could get paid just to originate and sell the mortgages down the pipeline, passing the risk along.


The "turmoil in financial markets clearly was triggered by a dramatic weakening of underwriting standards for U.S. subprime mortgages, beginning in late 2004 and extending into 2007," the President's Working Group on Financial Markets OCT 2008

“From 2000 through 2007, a remarkable run-up in global home prices occurred (see chart). But that trend has reversed abruptly.
A Global View of the Housing Bubble | The Big Picture


One president controlled the regulators that not only let banks stop checking income but cheered them on. And as president Bush could enact the very policies that caused the Bush Mortgage Bubble and he did. And his party controlled congress.

I guess, if I wanted to polarize and do the populism thing, I would simplify the situation to.

PS: The reference in the text accompanying the graph you cite to the bubble having been credit driven echos, what I said earlier. You see, a credit bubble is itself driven by the money supply,, which is controlled by the fed.

 

[dad2three2001]

Re: Being concerned about 17 trillion in debt makes one an ' extremist'?

I guess, if I wanted to polarize and do the populism thing, I would simplify the situation to.

PS: The reference in the text accompanying the graph you cite to the bubble having been credit driven echos, what I said earlier. You see, a credit bubble is itself driven by the money supply,, which is controlled by the fed.

MORE R/W nonsense. I'm shocked



Warren Buffet said it perfectly when he said "There's class warfare, all right, but it's my class, the rich class, that's making war, and we're winning."

And when he said "there’s been class warfare going on for the last 20 years, and my class has won."

And when he said "if this is a war – I wouldn’t call it a war, I’d call it a struggle – but, if this is a war, my side has had the nuclear bomb. We’ve got K-Street, we’ve got lobbyists, we’ve got money on our side".

Warren Buffet is very smart and observant


Oh yeah, I forgot, they're the party that isn't going to be dictated by fact checkers!

 

[Vern]

Re: Being concerned about 17 trillion in debt makes one an ' extremist'?

Fenton, you made this false claim in post #901 in this thread.

And how does 200 Million a year in down payment assistance equate to 5 Trillion that Fannie and Freddie currently hold in Sub-Prime debt ?
.

In post #902 I called you out for posting it. You’ve posted links before that prove its false. In post #920, you did the usual deflecting babbling and spinning but you backed up nothing. Of course you mention the equally dishonest “3 link” narrative.

Post 921, you’ve posted no link
Post 924, you’ve posted no link

In post 925, I reiterated my request for you to back up your claim.

In post 933. you claim you’ve posted the links.

In what post will I find the links to back up your ‘claim’?

 

[dad2three2001]

Wait, did you just reference the Pelosi led finqncial crisis inquiry ??

Are you KIDDING ME ??

Whats wrong with you ??

And quit being dishonest ? What did Snow say in 2005 ?

"Pelosi led finqncial crisis inquiry ??"

YOU MEAN BUSH'S COMMISSION?

The Working Group on Financial Markets (also, President's Working Group on Financial Markets, the Working Group, and colloquially the Plunge Protection Team) was created by Executive Order 12631, signed on March 18, 1988 by United States President Ronald Reagan


The Working Group consists of:

The Secretary of the Treasury, or his/her designee (as Chairperson of the Working Group);
The Chairperson of the Board of Governors of the Federal Reserve System, or his/her designee;
The Chairperson of the Securities and Exchange Commission, or his/her designee; and
The Chairperson of the Commodity Futures Trading Commission, or his/her designee.


Working Group on Financial Markets - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

You keep proving how you hate FACTS and truth.



"What did Snow say in 2005"

You mean when Bush was pushing F/F to buy $440 BILLION in MBS's to feed his 'home ownership society' push because he had zero growth without it (even with it slowest growth post WW2 up till Dec 31, 2007)...


I know, it was those Dems stopping the GOP from 'regulating' the GSE's because we know how much the GOP LOVES REGULATIONS/REGULATORS!

 

[Conservative]

Re: Being concerned about 17 trillion in debt makes one an ' extremist'?

MORE R/W nonsense. I'm shocked



Warren Buffet said it perfectly when he said "There's class warfare, all right, but it's my class, the rich class, that's making war, and we're winning."

And when he said "there’s been class warfare going on for the last 20 years, and my class has won."

And when he said "if this is a war – I wouldn’t call it a war, I’d call it a struggle – but, if this is a war, my side has had the nuclear bomb. We’ve got K-Street, we’ve got lobbyists, we’ve got money on our side".

Warren Buffet is very smart and observant


Oh yeah, I forgot, they're the party that isn't going to be dictated by fact checkers!

Do you realize that every post is R/W this, R/W that and everything posted that refutes your opinion as nonsense? You really seem to have a sickness, please seek some help. No problem ever is going to be solved by always placing blame and never doing anything about it. You live in the past and you are destined to remain in the past. We are almost a decade later and you are still distorting and diverting from the failures TODAY.

Liberals do not have the answers as have been shown over the past 5 years. "Your" President lacked the leadership and executive experience to hold the office he has and the economic results today reflect what many tried to tell you in 2008 and again in 2012. Instead of listening to your brain you voted with your heart and still do that today. You want badly to believe that Bush created the problems we are still suffering from today and regardless whether or not that is true you are never going to get over that belief until you start holding your ideology to the same standards that you hold Republicans and Conservatives.

There is enough blame to go around between both parties. What we learned is that there should always be consequences for poor decisions and choices. The Federal Govt. should get out of the social engineering business and stop bailing out private businesses. The Federal Govt. should stop rewarding bad behavior on the part of business and individuals. The Federal Govt. needs to promote equal opportunity and not equal outcome.

No one forced individuals to take out loans that had interest rate changes programmed into them and no matter who you want to continue to blame until you put it where it belongs, on the individual you are never going to have any credibility.

 

[joG]

Re: Being concerned about 17 trillion in debt makes one an ' extremist'?

R/W NONSENSE. Shocking

Then you were not there or unobservant. It does not shock me though. I know a number of the participants that never understood what went down. Some of these guys were even responsible for the regulation, control or guarantee on which the three As were based. Only a month earlier one of the people at a central bank had told me how safe all was and how well they had it under control. But he was not alone. There are still a lot of people around that want to use, what occurred, for propaganda. That is not to say we did not need better regulation. But that is not the story, which is far more fun.

 

[dad2three2001]

The over 5 Trillion in Sub-Prime securities and loans owned by Fannie and Freddie ?

I just got through posting links to support that, to " Dad of three ".

Time for you to fess up and admit your'e entire Bush blame is based on fantasy and left wing talking points.

"The over 5 Trillion in Sub-Prime securities and loans owned by Fannie and Freddie ?

I just got through posting links to support that, to " Dad of three ".


SERIOUSLY? LOL


Making up crap and pointing to F/F ENTIRE holdings as 'subprime' is garbage. AGAIN


“The idea that they were leading this charge is just absurd,” said Guy Cecala, publisher of Inside Mortgage Finance, an authoritative trade publication. “Fannie and Freddie have always had the tightest underwriting on earth…They were opposite of subprime.”

Wall Street, Not Fannie and Freddie, Led Mortgage Meltdown - The Daily Beast


I KNOW, THE PUBLISHER OF INSIDE MORTGAGE IS A STOOGE FOR F/F RIGHT? LOL



Over at the conservative American Enterprise Institute, two resident scholars, Peter Wallison and Edward Pinto, have concocted what has since become a Republican meme: namely, that Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac were ground zero for the entire crisis, leading the private sector off the cliff with their affordable housing mandates and massive subprime holdings.

The truth is the opposite: Fannie and Freddie got into subprime mortgages, with great trepidation, only in 2005 and 2006, and only because they were losing so much market share to Wall Street.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/12/20/opinion/nocera-an-inconvenient-truth.html

 

[dad2three2001]

Re: Being concerned about 17 trillion in debt makes one an ' extremist'?

Then you were not there or unobservant. It does not shock me though. I know a number of the participants that never understood what went down. Some of these guys were even responsible for the regulation, control or guarantee on which the three As were based. Only a month earlier one of the people at a central bank had told me how safe all was and how well they had it under control. But he was not alone. There are still a lot of people around that want to use, what occurred, for propaganda. That is not to say we did not need better regulation. But that is not the story, which is far more fun.

Right. Feds caused it. World wide credit bubble. Feds caused it *shaking head*

Not saying fed policy didn't contribute, but BUSH COULD'VE EASILY STOPPED THIS IN THE US IF HE BELIEVED IN REGULATORS. HE DIDN'T!!!

 

[joG]

Re: Being concerned about 17 trillion in debt makes one an ' extremist'?

MORE R/W nonsense. I'm shocked



Warren Buffet said it perfectly when he said "There's class warfare, all right, but it's my class, the rich class, that's making war, and we're winning."

And when he said "there’s been class warfare going on for the last 20 years, and my class has won."

And when he said "if this is a war – I wouldn’t call it a war, I’d call it a struggle – but, if this is a war, my side has had the nuclear bomb. We’ve got K-Street, we’ve got lobbyists, we’ve got money on our side".

Warren Buffet is very smart and observant


Oh yeah, I forgot, they're the party that isn't going to be dictated by fact checkers!

That is a much wider story and started with the fall of the Evil Empire. But that is a really fun tale.

 

[dad2three2001]

Re: Being concerned about 17 trillion in debt makes one an ' extremist'?

Do you realize that every post is R/W this, R/W that and everything posted that refutes your opinion as nonsense? You really seem to have a sickness, please seek some help. No problem ever is going to be solved by always placing blame and never doing anything about it. You live in the past and you are destined to remain in the past. We are almost a decade later and you are still distorting and diverting from the failures TODAY.

Liberals do not have the answers as have been shown over the past 5 years. "Your" President lacked the leadership and executive experience to hold the office he has and the economic results today reflect what many tried to tell you in 2008 and again in 2012. Instead of listening to your brain you voted with your heart and still do that today. You want badly to believe that Bush created the problems we are still suffering from today and regardless whether or not that is true you are never going to get over that belief until you start holding your ideology to the same standards that you hold Republicans and Conservatives.

There is enough blame to go around between both parties. What we learned is that there should always be consequences for poor decisions and choices. The Federal Govt. should get out of the social engineering business and stop bailing out private businesses. The Federal Govt. should stop rewarding bad behavior on the part of business and individuals. The Federal Govt. needs to promote equal opportunity and not equal outcome.

No one forced individuals to take out loans that had interest rate changes programmed into them and no matter who you want to continue to blame until you put it where it belongs, on the individual you are never going to have any credibility.

'Both parties' *shaking head*


IT'S BEEN CONservative policies for 40+ years that's the problem!


Predatory Lenders' Partner in Crime

Predatory lending was widely understood to present a looming national crisis.

What did the Bush administration do in response? Did it reverse course and decide to take action to halt this burgeoning scourge?

Not only did the Bush administration do nothing to protect consumers, it embarked on an aggressive and unprecedented campaign to prevent states from protecting their residents from the very problems to which the federal government was turning a blind eye

In 2003, during the height of the predatory lending crisis, the OCC invoked a clause from the 1863 National Bank Act to issue formal opinions preempting all state predatory lending laws, thereby rendering them inoperative

Eliot Spitzer - Predatory Lenders' Partner in Crime


CONservatives deny facts and never explain their positions because they can't. Their positions have no basis in reality and are unsustainable, so the only thing they can do is obfuscate, deny, attack and deflect.

 

[dad2three2001]

Re: Being concerned about 17 trillion in debt makes one an ' extremist'?

That is a much wider story and started with the fall of the Evil Empire. But that is a really fun tale.

Right. it was Lenins fault "shaking head"

 

[dad2three2001]

The over 5 Trillion in Sub-Prime securities and loans owned by Fannie and Freddie ?

I just got through posting links to support that, to " Dad of three ".

Time for you to fess up and admit your'e entire Bush blame is based on fantasy and left wing talking points.

“The idea that they were leading this charge is just absurd,” said Guy Cecala, publisher of Inside Mortgage Finance, an authoritative trade publication. “Fannie and Freddie have always had the tightest underwriting on earth…They were opposite of subprime.”

Fannie and Freddie, Cecala said in a telephone interview, didn’t start making a big move into riskier mortgages until the mortgage boom was already under way, and they were fighting to reclaim market share they’d lost to more aggressive Wall Street players. Even then, they were more cautious than Lehman Brothers and other investment banks. For example, just over 15 percent of Fannie- and Freddie-backed loans made in 2007 have been seriously delinquent, compared to nearly 42 percent of mortgages bankrolled by Wall Street, according to the FHFA.

Wall Street, Not Fannie and Freddie, Led Mortgage Meltdown - The Daily Beast

 

[dad2three2001]

Re: Being concerned about 17 trillion in debt makes one an ' extremist'?

Do you realize that every post is R/W this, R/W that and everything posted that refutes your opinion as nonsense? You really seem to have a sickness, please seek some help. No problem ever is going to be solved by always placing blame and never doing anything about it. You live in the past and you are destined to remain in the past. We are almost a decade later and you are still distorting and diverting from the failures TODAY.

Liberals do not have the answers as have been shown over the past 5 years. "Your" President lacked the leadership and executive experience to hold the office he has and the economic results today reflect what many tried to tell you in 2008 and again in 2012. Instead of listening to your brain you voted with your heart and still do that today. You want badly to believe that Bush created the problems we are still suffering from today and regardless whether or not that is true you are never going to get over that belief until you start holding your ideology to the same standards that you hold Republicans and Conservatives.

There is enough blame to go around between both parties. What we learned is that there should always be consequences for poor decisions and choices. The Federal Govt. should get out of the social engineering business and stop bailing out private businesses. The Federal Govt. should stop rewarding bad behavior on the part of business and individuals. The Federal Govt. needs to promote equal opportunity and not equal outcome.

No one forced individuals to take out loans that had interest rate changes programmed into them and no matter who you want to continue to blame until you put it where it belongs, on the individual you are never going to have any credibility.

The widespread claim that nonprime loan originators that sold their loans caused the crisis because they "had no skin in the game" ignores the fundamental causes.


The ultra sophisticated buyers knew the originators had no skin in the game. Neoclassical economics and finance predicts that because they know that the nonprime originators have perverse incentives to sell them toxic loans they will take particular care in their due diligence to detect and block any such sales.

They assuredly would never buy assets that the trade openly labeled as fraudulent, after receiving FBI warnings of a fraud epidemic, without the taking exceptional due diligence precautions.


The rating agencies' concerns for their reputations would make them even more cautious. Real markets, however, became perverse -- "due diligence" and "private market discipline" became oxymoronic.



These two documents are enough to begin to understand:

the FBI accurately described mortgage fraud as "epidemic"

nonprime lenders are overwhelmingly responsible for the epidemic

the fraud was so endemic that it would have been easy to spot if anyone looked

the lenders, the banks that created nonprime derivatives, the rating agencies, and the buyers all operated on a "don't ask; don't tell" policy

willful blindness was essential to originate, sell, pool and resell the loans

willful blindness was the pretext for not posting loss reserves

both forms of blindness made high (fictional) profits certain when the bubble was expanding rapidly and massive (real) losses certain when it collapsed

the worse the nonprime loan quality the higher the fees and interest rates, and the faster the growth in nonprime lending and pooling the greater the immediate fictional profits and (eventual) real losses

the greater the destruction of wealth, the greater the (fictional) profits, bonuses, and stock appreciation


William K. Black: The Two Documents Everyone Should Read to Better Understand the Crisis

 

[Conservative]

Re: Being concerned about 17 trillion in debt makes one an ' extremist'?

'Both parties' *shaking head*


IT'S BEEN CONservative policies for 40+ years that's the problem!


Predatory Lenders' Partner in Crime

Predatory lending was widely understood to present a looming national crisis.

What did the Bush administration do in response? Did it reverse course and decide to take action to halt this burgeoning scourge?

Not only did the Bush administration do nothing to protect consumers, it embarked on an aggressive and unprecedented campaign to prevent states from protecting their residents from the very problems to which the federal government was turning a blind eye

In 2003, during the height of the predatory lending crisis, the OCC invoked a clause from the 1863 National Bank Act to issue formal opinions preempting all state predatory lending laws, thereby rendering them inoperative

Eliot Spitzer - Predatory Lenders' Partner in Crime


CONservatives deny facts and never explain their positions because they can't. Their positions have no basis in reality and are unsustainable, so the only thing they can do is obfuscate, deny, attack and deflect.

The reason conservatives cannot explain their position to you is because you have your head so far up the liberal socialist ass that you are totally and completely deaf to reality. You live in the wrong country with your hatred for the free enterprise and capitalistic economy that we have expecting liberalism to bail you out. You see, you want the govt. there when you want them, you want the free stuff but never pay for it. You want no consequences for personal failures and it is always someone else's fault when you fail. No where in anything you have posted do you blame individuals for poor choices that they made nor do you blame the Obama Administration for promoting more of the same entitlement crap that got us into the mess we are today.

Please give your dad's computer back to him

 

[dad2three2001]

Re: Being concerned about 17 trillion in debt makes one an ' extremist'?

The reason conservatives cannot explain their position to you is because you have your head so far up the liberal socialist ass that you are totally and completely deaf to reality. You live in the wrong country with your hatred for the free enterprise and capitalistic economy that we have expecting liberalism to bail you out. You see, you want the govt. there when you want them, you want the free stuff but never pay for it. You want no consequences for personal failures and it is always someone else's fault when you fail. No where in anything you have posted do you blame individuals for poor choices that they made nor do you blame the Obama Administration for promoting more of the same entitlement crap that got us into the mess we are today.

Please give your dad's computer back to him

Got it, hate, distortions and lies, the only thing you have.


Keynes wrote "The End of Laissez Faire" in 1926. He was correct then, and his insight remains more valid than any economics that conservative Libertarians propound ad infinitum and ad nauseum. Laissez Faire is nothing more than a childish Christmas wish of no substance; just hope and myth, and smoke and mirrors. Fails every time we try even the tiniest bit.


“Those of us who have looked to the self-interest of lending institutions to protect shareholders’ equity, myself included, are in a state of shocked disbelief,” Alan Greenspan

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/10/24/b...?gwh=6E6A74D274340EF62CD021FD2475D642&gwt=pay


The FBI correctly identified the epidemic of mortgage control fraud at such an early point that the financial crisis could have been averted had the Bush administration acted with even minimal competence.

William K. Black: The Two Documents Everyone Should Read to Better Understand the Crisis


Dubya 2002:

“We certainly don't want there to be a fine print preventing people from owning their home,..we can change the print, and we've got to.”

 

[joG]

Re: Being concerned about 17 trillion in debt makes one an ' extremist'?

Right. it was Lenins fault "shaking head"

No, not really. His mischief had lost some steam. But the fall of his edifice left rubble, broke up the blocks and had a number of effects that reverberate yet. I know you like somewhat reduced history and well edited causal chains and I sympathize. So do I. But those tales do not help to find rational legislation and institutional structures to avoid recurring bubbles.