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Torus34

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Quote, Mr. Charlie Kirk:

"I think it’s worth it to have a cost of, unfortunately, some gun deaths every single year so that we can have the second amendment to protect our other God-given rights.
That is a prudent deal. It is rational."

Regards, Stay safe 'n well . . . informed.
 
The fact that he said this, knowing he might be a victim, speaks to his commitment. He wasn't volunteering somebody else to take a risk, like when a city passes a law to disarm all the law-abiding Blacks in a ghetto.
 
Quote, Mr. Charlie Kirk:

"I think it’s worth it to have a cost of, unfortunately, some gun deaths every single year so that we can have the second amendment to protect our other God-given rights.
That is a prudent deal. It is rational."

Regards, Stay safe 'n well . . . informed.

The opposing ‘logic’ being: the criminal use (abuse?) of X is just cause for banning X (unless X is a knife, hammer or vehicle). ;)
 
Quote, Mr. Charlie Kirk:

"I think it’s worth it to have a cost of, unfortunately, some gun deaths every single year so that we can have the second amendment to protect our other God-given rights.
That is a prudent deal. It is rational."

Regards, Stay safe 'n well . . . informed.
So, you're making light of his death? By the way, guns don't kill people. People kill people, many times with the killers having long arrest records and yet democrats let these people right back out on the streets to commit yet more crimes. And, no, I wasn't referring to this particular case but generally speaking. Kirk was right and, if he could, he would tell you so again right now.
 
So, you're making light of his death? By the way, guns don't kill people. People kill people, many times with the killers having long arrest records and yet democrats let these people right back out on the streets to commit yet more crimes. And, no, I wasn't referring to this particular case but generally speaking. Kirk was right and, if he could, he would tell you so again right now.

Regarding death, I hew to the philosophy in No Man is an Island, by John Donne.

Regards, stay safe 'n well . . . informed.
 
So, you're making light of his death? By the way, guns don't kill people. People kill people, many times with the killers having long arrest records and yet democrats let these people right back out on the streets to commit yet more crimes. And, no, I wasn't referring to this particular case but generally speaking. Kirk was right and, if he could, he would tell you so again right now.

Recidivism is a major problem yet, even with ‘three strikes laws’, it requires multiple victims and ‘serious’ criminal convictions before they have an (any?) impact.
 
Quote, Mr. Charlie Kirk:

"I think it’s worth it to have a cost of, unfortunately, some gun deaths every single year so that we can have the second amendment to protect our other God-given rights.
That is a prudent deal. It is rational."

Regards, Stay safe 'n well . . . informed.

Not nice.

Funny, but not nice.
 
The fact that he said this, knowing he might be a victim, speaks to his commitment. He wasn't volunteering somebody else to take a risk, like when a city passes a law to disarm all the law-abiding Blacks in a ghetto.

Or when the RNC forces all attendees to disarm.
 
The fact that he said this, knowing he might be a victim, speaks to his commitment. He wasn't volunteering somebody else to take a risk, like when a city passes a law to disarm all the law-abiding Blacks in a ghetto.
Yes, he did seem committed to his message of hate and intolerance.
 
The opposing ‘logic’ being: the criminal use (abuse?) of X is just cause for banning X (unless X is a knife, hammer or vehicle). ;)

Yes. That’s why I want to see nuclear arms on sale at Walmart. My right to arms of any type shall not be infringed because some sissy libs are scared of me potentially abusing them.
 
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The fact that he said this, knowing he might be a victim, speaks to his commitment. He wasn't volunteering somebody else to take a risk, like when a city passes a law to disarm all the law-abiding Blacks in a ghetto.

Mr. Charlie Kirk was committed to many things, among them the curious Second Amendment to the Constitution of the United States of America. The part of that amendment regarding arms is not shared by other modern democracies.

Regards, stay safe 'n well . . . informed.
 
The fact that he said this, knowing he might be a victim, speaks to his commitment. He wasn't volunteering somebody else to take a risk, like when a city passes a law to disarm all the law-abiding Blacks in a ghetto.
Bullshit. That's just a blatant lie. He wasn't concerned about being a victim, he was literally justifying the deaths of school children. He was, in fact, volunteering others to be martyrs for the sanctity of the Second Amendment. You can't justify this or revise history to make it other than it was.
 
Recidivism is a major problem yet, even with ‘three strikes laws’, it requires multiple victims and ‘serious’ criminal convictions before they have an (any?) impact.
It's just totally ridiculous that we allow people to be "career criminals", whether violent or non-violent.
 
What? No. Anytime you disarm people you want them to be helpless victims.
I'd also support metal detectors at all schools. It sucks that we have to do that, but we can't inconvenience gun hobbyists, so that's the option that's left.
 
The opposing ‘logic’ being: the criminal use (abuse?) of X is just cause for banning X (unless X is a knife, hammer or vehicle). ;)
:rolleyes:

Fentanyl has genuine medical uses, and patients are given fentanyl on a regular basis by medical professionals. Fentanyl also extremely dangerous when used without a prescription. As a result, it is heavily regulated, illegal to possess without proper authorization, and illegal to distribute without proper authorization. Entire governments put enormous resources into keeping fentanyl out of the public's hands.

We do not currently say that "the dangers of fentanyl are so great that it needs to be completely banned." But we do say "the dangers of fentanyl are so great that it needs to be very strictly regulated, and we should dedicate significant resources into stopping recreational use."

So... How would you react if someone said "the 50,000 deaths from illegal fentanyl use are an acceptable cost for the legal uses of this drug" ? I'm guessing you wouldn't be quite so sanguine about it, as you appear to be for Kirk's statement.
 
Bullshit. That's just a blatant lie. He wasn't concerned about being a victim, he was literally justifying the deaths of school children. He was, in fact, volunteering others to be martyrs for the sanctity of the Second Amendment. You can't justify this or revise history to make it other than it was.
The history is that he is shot and virtually all of them are not.

I don't support bogeyman detectors at schools either. Even if there is a school shooter, he's just going to shoot into the crowd standing waiting for the metal detector.

All we need is a little faith. Sometimes people make terrible choices and innocent kids get hurt, but they are not truly gone. If the gun-grabbing lot, focused solely on their own power, did not try to make the country come to a halt every time there was a mass shooting, the appeal wouldn't even be there. If one or a half dozen people dead barely deserved a small note in the crime blotter, Bozo wouldn't be decorating his guns with silly slogans and writing his crummy manifesto. And the only reason why the news is NOT that obscure is because every time there are all the opportunists trying to use it to make trans people an underclass or some such thing.
 
We do not currently say that "the dangers of fentanyl are so great that it needs to be completely banned." But we do say "the dangers of fentanyl are so great that it needs to be very strictly regulated, and we should dedicate significant resources into stopping recreational use."
Drug prohibition is a well-known BAD IDEA. It broke China - only after the drug lords foolishly dictated that the Qing Emperor legalize opium did it recover.

Fentanyl doesn't need regulation because "it is dangerous". It needs regulation because people deserve INFORMED consent. They need to understand addiction, and in the case of that stuff, they need to understand that some dealer mixing a packet of white powder into a bag of white powder does not actually mean that each individual grain of white powder that comes out of that bag is other than pure fentanyl. Ideally, with suitable informed consent, opiate addicts can be shifted back on to tea made from poppy pods or something, with relatively low risk, and will choose not to have anything to do with chemical-weapons grade drug powders.
 
:rolleyes:

Fentanyl has genuine medical uses, and patients are given fentanyl on a regular basis by medical professionals. Fentanyl also extremely dangerous when used without a prescription. As a result, it is heavily regulated, illegal to possess without proper authorization, and illegal to distribute without proper authorization. Entire governments put enormous resources into keeping fentanyl out of the public's hands.

We do not currently say that "the dangers of fentanyl are so great that it needs to be completely banned." But we do say "the dangers of fentanyl are so great that it needs to be very strictly regulated, and we should dedicate significant resources into stopping recreational use."

So... How would you react if someone said "the 50,000 deaths from illegal fentanyl use are an acceptable cost for the legal uses of this drug" ? I'm guessing you wouldn't be quite so sanguine about it, as you appear to be for Kirk's statement.

Are you for more knife, hammer and vehicle control? I’m less concerned with someone’s use (abuse?) of recreational drugs than if they decided to use (abuse?) a knife, hammer or vehicle as a weapon to attack me.
 
Drug prohibition is a well-known BAD IDEA.
:rolleyes:

It broke China - only after the drug lords foolishly dictated that the Qing Emperor legalize opium did it recover.
What utter nonsense is this?

Restricting opium did not "break China." It was the British and French who literally waged two separate wars, on a less technologically advanced society, to force China's government to allow opium sales. And I've got a little hint for you: They didn't do it because they believed opium was a beneficial medication. They did it for their own advantage, namely extracting money, forcing trade and seizing control.

Many people see prohibition of alcohol in the US as a failure, and it certainly did create many problems. Most of those issues were simply a result of legislators ignoring the wide-spread popularity of alcohol, and siding with the Prohibitionists in order to further their own agendas -- e.g. much of the anti-alcohol rhetoric was actually anti-immigrant rhetoric. But what most people don't know is that Prohibition of alcohol did, in fact, significantly reduce alcohol consumption -- for decades.

Needless to say, public demand and acceptance of fentanyl is nowhere near that of alcohol. Fentanyl is also entire orders of magnitude more deadly than alcohol.

No, not all prohibitions are equally problematic. Alcohol was extremely difficult to outlaw because it was broadly popular and integrated into all sorts of cultural norms and traditions. That is not even remotely the case with fentanyl or any opiates.

Prohibition is not a magic bullet, and it certainly isn't easy. But no, regulating drugs doesn't destroy every government that tries it. And in many cases, it's warranted.

Fentanyl doesn't need regulation because "it is dangerous". It needs regulation because people deserve INFORMED consent.
Yes, drug dealers are big on "informed consent." It's not like they routinely put fentanyl into other drugs and lie to their customers about it. The black market always encourages ethical behavior. :rolleyes:

They need to understand addiction, and in the case of that stuff, they need to understand that some dealer mixing a packet of white powder into a bag of white powder does not actually mean that each individual grain of white powder that comes out of that bag is other than pure fentanyl.
Oh, so unregulated and illegal drug markets are bad? Who knew? :rolleyes:

As to the idea that opiates can be used responsibly? Hard pass. I can accept that an exceptional handful of users are somehow able to maintain stable habits over time. It's also clear that many people can safely use opiates for pain relief for weeks or months at a time.

But the neurobiology is very clear that long-term use is unstable for the overwhelming majority of regular users. Almost all users build a tolerance, which leads to increased consumption; opiates also distort the brain's reward systems, making it nearly impossible for the user to enjoy anything other than getting high.

So yeah... regulation and prohibition of fentanyl absolutely makes sense, even if other drug prohibitions do not.

And again... No sane person is going to say that "50,000 deaths a year is an acceptable cost for that sweet, sweet fentanyl." And no one should accept the same claim when it comes to guns.
 
Are you for more knife, hammer and vehicle control?
:rolleyes:

Knives and hammers and cars can't kill someone 200+ yards away.

Despite that difference, we do, in fact, regulate knives and their usage. While the US does not have national regulation, many areas:
- Ban switchblades, butterfly knives, gravity knives, etc
- Ban knives in locations like courthouses, schools, polling locations etc
- Ban knife ownership by convicted felons
- Limits on what size knives can be sold to minors
and so on.

We already have TONS of regulations on automobiles. We regulate:
- Car designs
- Mandatory safety features
- Mandatory use of safety features, like seatbelt laws
- Traffic controls, such as lights and speed limits
- Mandatory insurance
- Mandatory use of headlights
- Requirements to maintain taillights in proper order
- Laws banning DWI/DUI
- Mandatory vehicle registration
- Required license plates
- Required vehicle inspections
- Required mirrors or rear vision systems
- Driver's license required

So yeah, let's regulate firearms the same way we do autos. Universal background checks, tracking on every single transfer, unique identifiers on every firearm and bullet, limits on where they can be used, mandatory training, mandatory registration, mandatory licensing, centralized tracking, insurance requirements, magazine capacity limits.... Sounds like a good start.
 
No, not all prohibitions are equally problematic. Alcohol was extremely difficult to outlaw because it was broadly popular and integrated into all sorts of cultural norms and traditions. That is not even remotely the case with fentanyl or any opiates.
And yet, prohibition is failing. As always. While it continues to drive the development of opiate drugs even more potent than fentanyl.

To be clear, I don't recommend opium addiction! But I am tired of people in jail, addict robbers on the streets, warrantless searches, people treating police like the enemy, police treating the people like the enemy ... I mean, there is NO REASON why in a more sensible society with sensible laws, the people wouldn't almost all gladly welcome cops as protectors and friends.
 
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