Basically, There Is No Such Thing As Judeo-Christian Values

[skews13.]

A common rallying cry of the right in America, to justify regressive morality laws, is often to say that "America was founded as a Christian country" with "Judeo-Christian values" while the common response from the left is to declare that the United States was founded as an explicitly secular country with a separation of church and state. Would it surprise you to learn both are wrong?

How America was not founded as 'a Christian country' based on 'Judeo-Christian' values

A common rallying cry of the right in America, to justify regressive morality laws, is often to say that "America was founded as a Christian country" with "Judeo-Christian values" while the common response from the left is to declare that the United States was founded as an explicitly secular...

www.alternet.org

 

[Phys251]

A common rallying cry of the right in America, to justify regressive morality laws, is often to say that "America was founded as a Christian country" with "Judeo-Christian values" while the common response from the left is to declare that the United States was founded as an explicitly secular country with a separation of church and state. Would it surprise you to learn both are wrong?

How America was not founded as 'a Christian country' based on 'Judeo-Christian' values

A common rallying cry of the right in America, to justify regressive morality laws, is often to say that "America was founded as a Christian country" with "Judeo-Christian values" while the common response from the left is to declare that the United States was founded as an explicitly secular...

www.alternet.org

"Judeo-Christian values" is a right-wing Christian dog whistle to enact the cruelty endorsed by the Old Testament.

 

[skews13.]

"Judeo-Christian values" is a right-wing Christian dog whistle to enact the cruelty endorsed by the Old Testament.

I was impressed with the article. I have to admit that I was corrected on a few false assumptions of my own. The hardest thing I think for Christians to take from it, is the fact that history shows that Jews have been oppressed by them, more than anyone else. Modern Christians try to tie both together, solely to try and justify Biblical prophesy. Which ironically enough kills the Jews once again.

Conservative American support of Israel, is like a farmer fattening up the turkey for Thanksgiving.

 

[Dayton3]

"Judeo-Christian values" is a right-wing Christian dog whistle to enact the cruelty endorsed by the Old Testament.

Most Christians I know have little or no interest in the Old Testament.

 

[Phys251]

Most Christians I know have little or no interest in the Old Testament.

It's always a good idea for religious people to understand what they actually believe.

 

[bomberfox]

Judeo-christian nowadays is just christians using a different religion to cement their cultural hegemony.

 

[Dayton3]

It's always a good idea for religious people to understand what they actually believe.

Can you prove that the majority of Christians believe in the moral directives of the Old Testament?

Didn't think so.

 

[Glitch]

A common rallying cry of the right in America, to justify regressive morality laws, is often to say that "America was founded as a Christian country" with "Judeo-Christian values" while the common response from the left is to declare that the United States was founded as an explicitly secular country with a separation of church and state. Would it surprise you to learn both are wrong?

How America was not founded as 'a Christian country' based on 'Judeo-Christian' values

A common rallying cry of the right in America, to justify regressive morality laws, is often to say that "America was founded as a Christian country" with "Judeo-Christian values" while the common response from the left is to declare that the United States was founded as an explicitly secular...

www.alternet.org

Except that it is not wrong, you are.

When one of the Founding Fathers explicitly states that the US is not in any way founded on Christianity, that ends the matter conclusively. That is precisely what President John Adams did in 1796 when he ratified the Treaty of Tripoli. Article 11 of that treaty begins with "As the government of the United States of America is not in any sense founded on the Christian Religion..."

So all those who have ever made the claim that "America was founded as a Christian country" are flat out wrong. The US did not start out as a secular nation, but it became one with the ratification of the First Amendment in 1791.

 

[bomberfox]

Can you prove that the majority of Christians believe in the moral directives of the Old Testament?

Didn't think so.

The 10 commandments.

 

[Dayton3]

The 10 commandments.

What about them?

 

[Slartibartfast]

A common rallying cry of the right in America, to justify regressive morality laws, is often to say that "America was founded as a Christian country" with "Judeo-Christian values" while the common response from the left is to declare that the United States was founded as an explicitly secular country with a separation of church and state. Would it surprise you to learn both are wrong?

How America was not founded as 'a Christian country' based on 'Judeo-Christian' values

A common rallying cry of the right in America, to justify regressive morality laws, is often to say that "America was founded as a Christian country" with "Judeo-Christian values" while the common response from the left is to declare that the United States was founded as an explicitly secular...

www.alternet.org

I think Judeo-Christian Values is just the old term for Anglo-Saxon Traditions. Generally the people who are for it tend to be for cultural hegemony that is dressed up in religion (to the point that many of its adherents mistake it for actual religion).

 

[NatMorton]

A common rallying cry of the right in America, to justify regressive morality laws, is often to say that "America was founded as a Christian country" with "Judeo-Christian values" while the common response from the left is to declare that the United States was founded as an explicitly secular country with a separation of church and state. Would it surprise you to learn both are wrong?

How America was not founded as 'a Christian country' based on 'Judeo-Christian' values

A common rallying cry of the right in America, to justify regressive morality laws, is often to say that "America was founded as a Christian country" with "Judeo-Christian values" while the common response from the left is to declare that the United States was founded as an explicitly secular...

www.alternet.org

I got as far as:

First of all, "Judeo-Christian values" is a dog whistle that erases Jewish values by subsuming Judaism into Christianity. It also excludes other religions, particularly Islam. When politicians claim "Judeo-Christian values" they're almost always describing Christian values but want to pretend they are being inclusive of Jews.

... before deciding this piece was irretrievably stupid. Subsume? The term gives the Jews top billing.

 

[EMNofSeattle]

Except that it is not wrong, you are.

When one of the Founding Fathers explicitly states that the US is not in any way founded on Christianity, that ends the matter conclusively. That is precisely what President John Adams did in 1796 when he ratified the Treaty of Tripoli. Article 11 of that treaty begins with "As the government of the United States of America is not in any sense founded on the Christian Religion..."

So all those who have ever made the claim that "America was founded as a Christian country" are flat out wrong. The US did not start out as a secular nation, but it became one with the ratification of the First Amendment in 1791.

The treaty of Tripoli was never binding law in America. There is no record that article 11 was actually part of the treaty (it wasn’t included in the Arabic text signed by the Pasha for example)

But that aside, if a treaty declared that helium is an element with 37 protons in the nucleus it would be factually wrong. Just as the article 11 is wrong.

 

[vegas giants]

Can you prove that the majority of Christians believe in the moral directives of the Old Testament?

Didn't think so.

Millions upon millions do.

Any Sunday in the south

 

[Dayton3]

Millions upon millions do.

Any Sunday in the south

What evidence do you have of this? I suspect nothing beyond "what you've heard".

 

[vegas giants]

What evidence do you have of this? I suspect nothing beyond "what you've heard".

Go to any church in the south and listen to them quote from the old testament all day long.



Just deny that

 

[Dayton3]

Go to any church in the south and listen to them quote from the old testament all day long.



Just deny that

In the interests of history. Not for ideological or theological reasons.

 

[Dayton3]

Go to any church in the south and listen to them quote from the old testament all day long.



Just deny that

So you are admitting you have no actual evidence. It is just "what you've heard".

 

[Glitch]

The treaty of Tripoli was never binding law in America. There is no record that article 11 was actually part of the treaty (it wasn’t included in the Arabic text signed by the Pasha for example)

But that aside, if a treaty declared that helium is an element with 37 protons in the nucleus it would be factually wrong. Just as the article 11 is wrong.

Don't be silly, of course the treaty is binding. Once the Senate gave their approval and President Adams ratified the treaty it became the equivalent in law as the US Constitution itself, superseding even federal law.

It doesn't matter what the Arabs signed, it only matters what the Senate approved and the President signed.

The US was specifically founded as a secular nation, and with the addition of the First Amendment in 1791 and the Treaty of Tripoli in 1796 it reaffirmed that position. The very last thing the founders wanted was to establish any kind of religion, like England had. Christianity left a very bad taste in their mouth, and some of the founders were actually hostile towards Christians and religion in general.

James Madison sums up the sentiments of the founders rather well:

"What influence, in fact, have ecclesiastical establishments had on society? In some instances they have been seen to erect a spiritual tyranny on the ruins of the civil authority; on many instances they have been seen upholding the thrones of political tyranny; in no instance have they been the guardians of the liberties of the people. Rulers who wish to subvert the public liberty may have found an established clergy convenient auxiliaries. A just government, instituted to secure and perpetuate it, needs them not." - James Madison, A Memorial and Remonstrance, addressed to the General Assembly of the Commonwealth of Virginia, 1785

If you believe that the US was founded as a Christian nation then you are seriously into self-delusion and have completely ignored reality.

 

[vegas giants]

So you are admitting you have no actual evidence. It is just "what you've heard".

I just posted it


Thank you for your concession

 

[vegas giants]

In the interests of history. Not for ideological or theological reasons.

They quote from leviticus and tell you that you will burn in hell for breaking gods law in the old testament.


It's how they condemn homosexuality

 

[vegas giants]

Most Christian groups believe that of the Old Covenant, only parts dealing with the moral law (as opposed to ceremonial law) are still applicable, others believe that none apply, dual-covenant theologians believe that the Old Covenant remains valid only for Jews, and a minority hold the view that all parts still apply to believers in Jesus and in the New Covenant.

 

[Dayton3]

They quote from leviticus and tell you that you will burn in hell for breaking gods law in the old testament.


It's how they condemn homosexuality

Homosexuality is thoroughly condemned in the New Testament.

Want me to give you the book, chapter, and verses?

 

[Luce]

Most Christians I know have little or no interest in the Old Testament.

Then they haven't read the new testament.

They could start with Matthew 5:17

 

[Luce]

Homosexuality is thoroughly condemned in the New Testament.

Want me to give you the book, chapter, and verses?

It is mentioned in Romans. Where else?