- Joined
- Feb 2, 2010
- Messages
- 27,101
- Reaction score
- 12,359
- Location
- Granada, España
- Gender
- Male
- Political Leaning
- Libertarian - Left
I'm with you on this one.
Everyone should be on an equal playing field, period.
Sorry, Jet. I should have mentioned you too when calling out footie fans.
Bournemouth beat Portsmouth one-nil last night! On the one hand, the idea of a fans cooperative ownership in itself is attractive to me, but not when it gives an unfair advantage.
I'm not against it in principle, but the preferential treatment that it provides is clearly discriminatory against the other clubs and, I'd argue, a clear breach of fair trading rules.
Oh but to Pete... teams like Man City and Chelsea are just rich owners play toys.. and Barca is playing it fair. :lol:
Now then, this is a story the rest of European club football has been awaiting for some time now.
Exclusive: Real Madrid and Barcelona face removal of privileges - European - Football - The Independent
For those unaware of the issue, FCB and Real Madrid, the two biggest football clubs in Spain, Europe and the world have been able to maintain their re-eminence through two main advantages. Firstly, they enjoy member-owned status (along with Bilbao and Osasuna) that was specifically denied to other Spanish clubs and which allows their local governments to subsidise their business operations through preferential tax and land deals.
Secondly, they are allowed to negotiate their TV deals separate from all the other clubs in Spain such that the two big boys hoover up the vast majority of TV revenues.
There is structurally no way in the world that any other Spanish or European club can compete with them financially and that is the status that the EU competition commission is looking at.
About time too! The plc and privately-owned football clubs of Europe are under immense financial scrutiny; there's no reason why these patently unfair sweetheart deals that have everything to do with nationalist politics and nothing to do with sport should continue.
Oh but to Pete... teams like Man City and Chelsea are just rich owners play toys.. and Barca is playing it fair. :lol:
I'd rather City were run as a fan-owned club
BBC News - Manchester United fans win Old Trafford 'protection'
United seem to be doing that sort of thing if the Glazer brothers ever decide to sell it.
I despise the way Real Madrid conduct business they take tapping up players to a whole new level. They put feeders out and let the media run wild with it, then they stay silent for a few weeks and allow the club they are buying from struggle to keep the rumours at bay, couple of key Real players will come out and say "how well that player would do at real, but I'm not in charge of transfers etc." Then once the player is unsettled and is shunned by his club they will come in and make the big offer, been watching them do it for years and the Spanish FA sit back and do nothing. Don't even get me started on the amount of quality players they have ruined and the special "favours" the Spanish government have done for Real over the years.
In short I hate Real Madird lol.
It's not the same system in Germany at all. Clubs must be 51% fan owned, and that applies to ALL clubs. There is no discrimination favouring 4 clubs over the rest.Yes that should be stopped. All teams should be able to be member owned. However banning it would go against EU regulations as well.. plus considering all German clubs are member owned.. then how would they react?
That's all the EU is looking at, that conditions are comparable and equitable across the board. Either everyone should be able to do something, or no one should.And the thing about "subsidies" from local government.. everyone does it for **** sake, even the UK. Sure the UK tax man might not be a friend like the Spanish one is, but local government has given land, done rules to please a football club and so on all across the UK. Look at your own team... it got a tax payer funded stadium and massive subsidies to remake it from an athletics stadium to a football stadium. I would also wage that the lease price is considerably lower than the market price. If you are going to ban such things, then it has to be Europe wide.. and that could easily kill football off.
I'm so over jealousy. We've certainly got nothing to be jealous of.Jealous?
City has more season ticket holders, greater revenue, bigger match attendances and greater commercial sales than Liverpool, and has had for several years now, but your attempt to flame me is making me chuckle.Like it or not, people want to see Man U, Liverpool (90k spectators at a friendly in Australia), Barca, Bayern and Real and somewhat Chealski now... they dont want to see Everton, Man City, Valencia, PSG, Napoli, Monaco and so on.
Not yet, perhaps, but isn't that what investment's supposed to be about? Napoli is the 3rd biggest club in Italy. It might not be in the FCB, MU, RM, BM league, but it's pretty big by any standards.Napoli spending = near 200 million. Hardly a big club but its private owner has money! In no way does Napoli generate any where near the money to pay for that spending.
Just not very strongly.Yes I believe in having a level playing field
It's not the same system in Germany at all. Clubs must be 51% fan owned, and that applies to ALL clubs. There is no discrimination favouring 4 clubs over the rest.
That's all the EU is looking at, that conditions are comparable and equitable across the board. Either everyone should be able to do something, or no one should.
City has more season ticket holders
greater revenue,
bigger match attendances
greater commercial sales than Liverpool, and has had for several years now
Not yet, perhaps, but isn't that what investment's supposed to be about? Napoli is the 3rd biggest club in Italy. It might not be in the FCB, MU, RM, BM league, but it's pretty big by any standards.
Just not very strongly.
City are doing just that, increasing capacity to 60,000. I don't believe Liverpool have been talking about a similar extension for some time, they just don't seem to be able to get around to it.Bigger stadium. If Liverpool had a bigger stadium then it could easily sell 70k season tickets.
Nonsense.Sugar daddy and his family does not count as revenue, but as an illegal subsidy
You think that owners investing in their own businesses is the same as tax payer subsidies? Wow! That line of logic must be a stretch, even for you.Yes I am still pissed over the massive sponsorship deal City got form the family business and that UEFA have so far done nothing to deal with such crap. It is no better than Real Madrid getting special cheap loans in Spanish banks or tax breaks.
That's right, a bigger stadium and more fans to fill it. It's not rocket science.They are right next to each other in the rankings and City is ahead because.. drumroll... bigger stadium!
No.Yes.. those commercial sales doubled in a year... impressive... Question is .. does commercial sales include sponsorships?
Calcio Serie A - attendance table, average and highest attendancesSince when is Napoli the 3rd biggest club? The 3 big ones are Inter Milan, Ac Milan and Juventus, with Roma and Lazio following closely behind.
Clearly you have.And I have nothing against investment,
You invest to grow a business. If they already had the income to cover the spending they wouldn't need to invest. You know the difference between income and investment, right?if you have the income to back up the investment..
I'm pretty impressed with that. The previous year saw a deficit of £197m, last year £92.5 and next year, having spent less on transfers and having shed a lot of dead weight on the playing staff, I think it's not over-optimistic to expect to see that deficit slashed to hardly anything. What excuse will you use when that happens?Having a yearly deficit of 90+ million pounds is disgusting to say the least.
I don't because I enjoyed following MCFC when they were in the 3rd tier of English football, and I would again if Sheikh Mansour buggered off tomorrow. I am enjoying our success right now but have no illusions that football can be a see-saw sort of affair. That's the problem that supporters of the likes of Real, Barca, Bayern, ManU and AC Milan can't handle. They believe that they have a God-given right to all the money and glory. Real (as in proper) football fans know differently. I guess that's why I get a little frisson of schadenfreude when I read about the possible threats to those gilded cages.Like it or not too much money in multiple countries, but especially the UK and Russia, have driven up wages and red numbers at clubs.. and it has to stop. At least Anzi in Russia is stopping now, by putting the whole team up for sale. Problem is, they pay their players crazy money, so no one can afford them! No one will pay Etoo 26 million dollars a year to play for them.
I fear for the game big time, with all these rich men and their toys.
City are doing just that, increasing capacity to 60,000. I don't believe Liverpool have been talking about a similar extension for some time, they just don't seem to be able to get around to it.
Nonsense. You think that owners investing in their own businesses is the same as tax payer subsidies? Wow! That line of logic must be a stretch, even for you.
You invest to grow a business. If they already had the income to cover the spending they wouldn't need to invest. You know the difference between income and investment, right?
I'm pretty impressed with that. The previous year saw a deficit of £197m, last year £92.5 and next year, having spent less on transfers and having shed a lot of dead weight on the playing staff, I think it's not over-optimistic to expect to see that deficit slashed to hardly anything. What excuse will you use when that happens?
I don't because I enjoyed following MCFC when they were in the 3rd tier of English football, and I would again if Sheikh Mansour buggered off tomorrow. I am enjoying our success right now but have no illusions that football can be a see-saw sort of affair.
That's the problem that supporters of the likes of Real, Barca, Bayern, ManU and AC Milan can't handle. They believe that they have a God-given right to all the money and glory. Real (as in proper) football fans know differently. I guess that's why I get a little frisson of schadenfreude when I read about the possible threats to those gilded cages.
How are you calculating that 300m?If City manage to do that, then great. However as I have stated, the financial fair play rules have been in place for a few seasons and City will have to generate 300 million in profit this year to break even.. how realistic is that?
There's the difference right there. Those clubs do not have 'thick and thin', they have thick and thicker.That is horse****.. the core fans are no different than you. They live and breath the club, in thick and thin.
When were they last relegated? Or have a struggle against relegation? Or fail to qualify for European competition? Or not appear in at least one competition final? Really Pete, they don't have the slightest clue about 'thin' times.Look at Real Madrid, not winning a title for years, loosing badly to Barca over and over again, and not getting very far in the CL. Did the clubs supporters desert the team? of course not.
I do so hope not. I think our colourful history will vaccinate our fans against that nasty affliction.Your comment sounds more like jealousy than anything else.... yes Man U, Real and Barca have millions of fans world wide, some only because it is cool, but they are also successful compared to City. When City have won the amount of titles like Man U, Real and Barca, then City also will have the same type of fan you so hate.
I can't wait!But in closing... Charity Shield this weekend... the season is starting ... WEEEEE...
I despise the way Real Madrid conduct business they take tapping up players to a whole new level. They put feeders out and let the media run wild with it, then they stay silent for a few weeks and allow the club they are buying from struggle to keep the rumours at bay, couple of key Real players will come out and say "how well that player would do at real, but I'm not in charge of transfers etc." Then once the player is unsettled and is shunned by his club they will come in and make the big offer, been watching them do it for years and the Spanish FA sit back and do nothing. Don't even get me started on the amount of quality players they have ruined and the special "favours" the Spanish government have done for Real over the years.
In short I hate Real Madird lol.
Never said Barca plays fair. But like it or not, the model Barca uses for ownership is the better one. It is the same one that the German clubs uses and that is mandatory (51% must be fan owned) by law.
Does Barca have sweetheart deals from banks and local government? You betcha, but so do all big clubs.... even the German ones. The amount of teams in stadiums that were originally built by tax payer money is quite large.. in the UK and elsewhere. Built on land given cheaply or free, and regulations being bent to favour the club.
Sorry but Barca is hardly the worst offender out there.
Do you blame them? Look at what happened to Wimbeldon.. and what is happening to Coventry at the moment. In no way do I want an American situation where the owners of professional teams move the club from city to city depending on what perks, tax breaks and so on they squeeze out of the public purse/city. It ruins the fan culture around the club.
How are you calculating that 300m?
There's the difference right there. Those clubs do not have 'thick and thin', they have thick and thicker. When were they last relegated? Or have a struggle against relegation? Or fail to qualify for European competition? Or not appear in at least one competition final? Really Pete, they don't have the slightest clue about 'thin' times.
We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:
Do you accept cookies and these technologies?
We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:
Do you accept cookies and these technologies?