Off topic nonsense.
:dohMy, my, my, you sure are quick to dismiss facts that don't conform to your beliefs.
Holy ****!
Your whole brutally dumb positions are based on assumptions.
For all you know they thought he was faking injury. Which is what many criminals do. Or do you not know that?
Besides that, the lack of a seatbelt may not have contributed to his injury at all. So stop assuming, when it is an absurd thing to do.
:doh
:lamo :lamo :lamo
Dismissed as irrelevant to my beliefs.
Apparently you do not understand what facts are on topic and what aren't.
Stop lying. I didn't say that.fify.
*UPDATED* – Did Freddie Gray Have Spinal Surgery (From Prior Car Accident) A Week Before His Arrest?… | The Last Refuge
Read this article, it explains the car accident case by stating it was not actually a car accident that he filled suit for, but for possible lead paint poisoning which occurred for several years due to lead based paint. This occurred while he was a developing teen. If you look at the effects of lead poisoning, one of the possible effects of long term exposure is that it effects bone development and in some cases can lead to Osteoporosis. If he had weakened bones due to lead exposure, it is more then possible that the struggle during his arrest may have caused the fatal injury, which then was made worse by moving his neck all over the place. If he had to be taserd when he was arrested, then he was resisting. The video only shows the arrest, and not what occurred prior, but based on the witnesses, he was taserd. If you look at his arrest record, he also does have an arrest for assault, so he was not only a drug dealer, but a potentially violent drug dealer. Which leads me to believe there is evidence that he resisted arrest, and based on a previous medical condition, was fatally injured during his arrest.
Stop lying. I didn't say that.
And now you are running from the truth. I accused you of dismissing my earlier points, and you directly confessed to doing so in post 302.
You're hiding something. Something that you don't want to talk about. Perhaps it's related to this story? Perhaps related to...race, maybe?
:dohLet me back this up for you.
That is an assumption.If they happened after, that is on the officers as an excessive use of force.
No. It means no such thing, that is nothing more than your assumption.If they were during, however, that means failing to buckle him in and denying him medical attention for a half hour are is also on the officers (these two things were admitted by the Commissioner, if you'll recall).
:dohYou made the argument that I was assuming the injuries happened while in custody, i.e. post arrest. You made the counter argument in post #280 that "His limp body is definitely an indication that he was injured during."
No, there is no either about these.So, either:
Wrong.When you made the argument that he might have been injured during his arrest, and then excused the officers involved for failing to restrain him in the van "because he might not have been able to sit," that is an argument from brutal stupidity.
Wrong.You then made it worse by saying his injuries may not have warranted immediate medical care...
:dohinjuries that just said would preclude him from sitting!
Where do you get this flopping around bs from? If he is purposely thrashing, that is not flopping.You think these injuries were sustained during his arrest, meaning they are actually Gray's fault and he is ultimately responsible for them, so when he get's majorly messed up and can't sit, THAT'S his fault too, and he may not have needed medical care because he could have been faking it, so flopping around the van (which he would have done if paralyzed and unsecured) was also his fault! Do you think they didn't hear him bouncing around on stuff? Do you think they were intentionally ignoring him, or could they not hear him over their laughter?
Yes I agree, your arguments are brutally stupid.Brutally stupid.
Yes, I already agreed, your arguments are brutally stupid.Just... brutally stupid.
No. There is nothing that connects the two.right up until you include the fact that he wasn't secured in the back of the van,
When it was known he was injured they called for medical attention immediately.and the fact that he didn't receive medical attention for so long when plenty of opportunities were passed up.
:dohSomebody took something too far somewhere and a man is dead because of it.
If intentional, sure. If they accidentally caused it during his arrest as a result of his resisting, they should not face criminal charges.I hope somebody goes to jail for this,
I had understood that the injury was not incurred on arrest but later.
But we certainly do have a problem with our police and judiciary system.
Completing their initial investigation into the fatal injury sustained by a young man in their custody, the Baltimore police on Thursday gave state prosecutors their findings, including the discovery that a police van carrying the man made a previously undisclosed stop en route to a police station.
The new stop turned up on video taken from “a privately owned camera,” the deputy police commissioner, Kevin Davis, said, and it was “previously unknown to us.” That suggested that the officers involved had not told investigators about it.
Another runner with a record.
STOP running and resisting!
Officers riding bicycles arrested Mr. Gray in the 1700 block of Presbury Street, in the Sandtown-Winchester neighborhood of northwest Baltimore. They charged him with illegal possession of a switchblade knife, and called a van to take him to the Western District police station.
At some point, Mr. Gray suffered a severe neck injury, which caused his death. Among the crucial unanswered questions are how he was hurt, whether it was before or during the van ride, and whether the ride exacerbated an earlier injury. The police have acknowledged that he was not wearing a seatbelt, contrary to department policy, and that he should have received medical attention sooner.
As to this topic: ..I wonder if they bounced him around in the back? Cuffed up behind and they like to
rattle you around and bounce you off the walls since there isn't anyway to hold yourself down. It's possible to ram your head on the steel walls or even bounce upside down on the floor..which could snap your neck/spine. They are supposed to seat belt you in..but they don't always do it
Batts also said it is still unclear why Gray was stopped in the first place, saying only that officers "made eye contact" with Gray and another man, and the two took off running.
"That's part of the question we have to dig into," Batts said, "if there's more than just running. There is no law against running."
No. It means no such thing, that is nothing more than your assumption.
His failing to be seat-belted may not have contributed to his injuries.
And again, they may have though he was faking injury.
No, there is no either about these.
There are other possibilities, such as he purposely injured himself.
Wrong.
I didn't make anything worse.
A guy wanting his inhaler while obviously breathing and talking okay is an indication of faking.
You can't make a guy sit who is forcing his body not to. That wold be brutality.
Obviously you do not understand that he may have possibly been injured during his resistance and that the Police believed he was faking injury.
When it was known he was injured they called for medical attention immediately.
:doh Besides being wrong and again making lame assumptions ... You are a day late and a dollar short.If he was limp due to paralysis, there is no way he could have not been hurt during a car ride with no restraint and no way to hold himself up. If you believe someone who can't move wouldn't be hurt even on a normal car ride, then I challenge you to drive a block with a baby in your trunk.
What's that? That would be reckless and stupid? I agree. That would be reckless and stupid. Babies have no way to keep themselves from bouncing off of surfaces. Any baby in that situation would most likely be hurt. (Psst, here's a clue bird for you: so would a person who was paralyzed, or a healthy person with his arms tied behind his back)
Is this a reason to not buckle him in? Let's think about this with our brain meats for a second.
Given that he WAS faking his injuries, he was still handcuffed, meaning there was no way for him support himself if the vehicle made any kind of maneuver. The police intentionally left him unbuckled, to what... teach him a lesson? Not the police's job, and unsafe to boot. Plus, you'd have to believe Baltimore police officers aren't strong enough to buckle in a person faking paralysis... think about that for a second.
Given that he WASN'T faking his injuries, there is still no reason to not buckle him in. Either way you look at it, not buckling him in is negligence, plain and simple.
Oh yeah, because people sever their own spines all the time! How could I have forgotten such a common fact? Especially those who recently had surgery on their spines, yeah, they love running into things intentionally.
While I already allowed for this several posts back by saying he could have taken a header off the top bunk on purpose, it is clear by now that this isn't the case. The police would have led with that from the first minute of the first hour of the first protest.
Is that an ASSumption I see?
Sweet Jesus... ok, so it's pretty clear you're an NYPD cop...
Death of Eric Garner - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
A guy who can force his body to not sit does not have an 80% severed spine! Seriously, do you even think about what you type before you type it? If several officers who just pinned a skinny dude down while a van came for him can't get him into a buckle while his hands are cuffed behind his back, those officers are seriously weak... oh, and the guy clearly doesn't have a severed spine.
Just raw stupidity, right there.
He couldn't have been injured during his arrest and also able to resist being put into a seat belt. This is indisputable.
And when was that, exactly? Show me your source. And tell me why the Baltimore City Police Commissioner said the officers involved missed several opportunities over the course of a half hour to call for paramedics?
:doh Besides being wrong and again making lame assumptions ... You are a day late and a dollar short.
http://www.debatepolitics.com/break...uffered-head-injury-police-transport-van.html
That would be the van that Gray was trying to injure himself in and succeeded.Would that be the van the police failed to buckle him in to? You know, when his arms were pinned behind his back and he didn't even have the ability to buckle himself in? That's the van?
Irrelevant.It seems the police have a history of doing this to people.
That would be the van that Gray was trying to injure himself in and succeeded.
Irrelevant.
No, based on the evidence.Making an assumption?
:doh As usual, a lame reply.Ah, yes. So, we've got a track record of the Baltimore PD injuring people with the same kind of injuries that Gray sustained... but that's irrelevant.
Good job, councilor.
Your employment history is irrelevant as well.You know modern courts don't actually have jesters, right?
No, based on the evidence.
You seem to be forgetting that there is also an ear witness.
He began by faking injury.
As it is normal for suspects to bang their heads and even kick to injure their self and he was not being tossed about by the vans movement, that only leaves two possibilities, he was either trying to injure himself or was trying to escape, and the ear witness claims it sounded like he was trying injure himself.
The fact that he did means he succeeded.
:doh As usual, a lame reply.
It is irrelevant for the reason provided.
Evidence says there was no "nickel ride".
Pay attention this time.
the man also said the driver did not speed, make sudden stops of "drive erratically."
Your employment history is irrelevant as well.
Ridiculous notion?Time will tell if the ridiculous notion that Gray severed his own spinal chord pans out,.
Just dismiss that nonsense.or if something happened during the second stop the van made where police had to "deal with Gray" (officers words, verbatim). Or perhaps something happened on the unreported stop the officers conveniently forgot to radio in (that was discovered on private CCTV).
Brutal stupidity would be not recognizing that self inflicted broken necks are a common occurrence.In the meantime, I'll entertain myself watching the apologists try to convince themselves that someone severing their own spinal cord is a believable notion, and not one borne out of brutal stupidity.
How about in a slip and fall in the bathroom?
(Just a quick google found this)
Swedish man sent home with broken neck - The Local
A Swedish man complaining of pain in his neck after a fall in his bathroom was sent home from hospital without an x-ray only to find that he was nursing a broken neck.
So, is it possible to be flopping about in a moving vehicle, surrounded by a metal cage, and fall in a way that breaks your neck? Who knows, but if a simple fall in a bathroom can do it, it's not impossible.
Brutal stupidity would be not recognizing that self inflicted broken necks are a common occurrence.
ow about in a slip and fall in the bathroom?
(Just a quick google found this)
Swedish man sent home with broken neck - The Local
A Swedish man complaining of pain in his neck after a fall in his bathroom was sent home from hospital without an x-ray only to find that he was nursing a broken neck.
So, is it possible to be flopping about in a moving vehicle, surrounded by a metal cage, and fall in a way that breaks your neck? Who knows, but if a simple fall in a bathroom can do it, it's not impossible.
Your answer is again absurdly brutally stupid.Conflating a slip and fall accident with an intentionally self-inflicted fatal broken neck is brutally stupid.
So that is what you admit to being. Figures.That is sociopathic high school jock brutally stupid.
No one has shown it was necessary.which could have been easily avoided had the officers buckled Gray in, like their department-wide policy specified just three days before. Take a wild guess why such a memo was necessary.
So, do you believe the officers involved should be punished for failing to secure him in the back of the van?
I've purposely waited until the initial police investigation report came out hoping it would provide some answers. Unfortunately, per this NYTimes article, it doesn't appear that the Baltimore PD is willing to disclose any of its findings on this case. Nonetheless, per the article it has been discovered that the police van that transported Freddie Gray made an undisclosed stop while enroute to the Baltimore police station.
What was the purpose for the stop and why didn't it get reported? More important, what happened during the stop? Baltimore PD aren't telling.
This is why I delayed responding to this incident so as not to prejudge events before the facts come out. All we know for sure is:
- Yes, the area where Freddie Gray was stopped does have a high crime rate, mostly drug related.
- Yes, Freddie Gray does have a police record (some drug related minor crimes).
- No, we don't know that he was running police or if he was, why. Police have yet to explain why Freddie Gray was stopped and subsequently apprehended and taken into police custody other than:
So, it would appear that claims that he was "running and resisting" would be inaccurate and premature at this point. We just don't know at this time why he was stopped in the first place and, as such, whether or not he had committed any crime prior to being apprehended.
As to the mystery surrounding Freddie Gray's injuries that lead to his death...
The video footage of his apprehension doesn't tell a clear picture of what all occurred. We do know that Freddie Gray:
- was tased prior to being restrained on the ground.
- had limited use of his legs (perhaps because they were bent cross-ways behind him as the two bicycle policemen held him down while back-up/reinforcements came on the scene).
- was placed into additional leg restraints on the scene just prior to be being placed into the police van.
- suffered sever injury to his neck (voice box) and spine (at the neck; reportedly 80% of his spine was severed at the neck) while in transit.
The confirmed non-use of seatbelts to secure the suspect in the back of the police van (paddy wagon) would support your suspicions. Still, we don't know precisely what happened in this case. But what IS clear is that the victim died at the hands of the Baltimore PD from injuries that were likely suffered during an unreported stop while enroute to the police station. The question everyone should be asking (other than why was this young man stopped in the first place) is "What really happened during that stop?"
I've purposely waited until the initial police investigation report came out hoping it would provide some answers. Unfortunately, per this NYTimes article, it doesn't appear that the Baltimore PD is willing to disclose any of its findings on this case. Nonetheless, per the article it has been discovered that the police van that transported Freddie Gray made an undisclosed stop while enroute to the Baltimore police station.
What was the purpose for the stop and why didn't it get reported? More important, what happened during the stop? Baltimore PD aren't telling.
This is why I delayed responding to this incident so as not to prejudge events before the facts come out. All we know for sure is:
- Yes, the area where Freddie Gray was stopped does have a high crime rate, mostly drug related.
- Yes, Freddie Gray does have a police record (some drug related minor crimes).
- No, we don't know that he was running police or if he was, why. Police have yet to explain why Freddie Gray was stopped and subsequently apprehended and taken into police custody other than:
So, it would appear that claims that he was "running and resisting" would be inaccurate and premature at this point. We just don't know at this time why he was stopped in the first place and, as such, whether or not he had committed any crime prior to being apprehended.
As to the mystery surrounding Freddie Gray's injuries that lead to his death...
The video footage of his apprehension doesn't tell a clear picture of what all occurred. We do know that Freddie Gray:
- was tased prior to being restrained on the ground.
- had limited use of his legs (perhaps because they were bent cross-ways behind him as the two bicycle policemen held him down while back-up/reinforcements came on the scene).
- was placed into additional leg restraints on the scene just prior to be being placed into the police van.
- suffered sever injury to his neck (voice box) and spine (at the neck; reportedly 80% of his spine was severed at the neck) while in transit.
The confirmed non-use of seatbelts to secure the suspect in the back of the police van (paddy wagon) would support your suspicions. Still, we don't know precisely what happened in this case. But what IS clear is that the victim died at the hands of the Baltimore PD from injuries that were likely suffered during an unreported stop while enroute to the police station. The question everyone should be asking (other than why was this young man stopped in the first place) is "What really happened during that stop?"
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