Award-winning Native American Actress Lily Gladstone explains why she uses she/they pronouns

[BrotherFease]

Disclaimer: I will be using female pronouns to describe Ms. Gladstone. You guys are free to refer to Gladstone as she or they.

I am not sure if you guys are big film fans or not, but Lily Gladstone stars in a popular film called "Killers of the Flower Moon". It's the latest Martin Scorsese film and you can watch it on AppleTV+. She recently won the Golden Globe for Best Actress in a Drama and considered the favorite to win Best Actress at the Oscars.

With all the debate about the legitimacy of pronouns, it turns out that Native American culture doesn't rely on gender pronouns and frequently uses gender neutral terminology. How is it that Native American culture is more accepting of non-gendered pronouns than the rest of America and Europe?

“My pronoun use is partly a way of decolonizing gender for myself,” the Killers of the Flower Moon actor told PEOPLE, adding that using she/they pronouns is also a means of “embracing that when I'm in a group of ladies, I know that I'm a little bit different. When I'm in a group of men, I don't feel like a man. I don't feel [masculine] at all. I feel probably more feminine when I'm around other men.”

Gladstone also explained how her gender identity reflects their Indigenous heritage. “In most Native languages, most Indigenous languages, Blackfeet included, there are no gendered pronouns. There is no he/she, there's only they,” the actor explained. Gladstone has both Blackfeet and Nimiipuu heritage, and grew up on a Blackfeet reservation in Montana.

BTW - If you haven't seen Killers of the Flower Moon, I highly recommended it. Excellent film. Hits on a lot of themes we're experiencing in our society today.

'Killers of the Flower Moon' star Lily Gladstone says using she/they pronouns is 'a way of decolonizing gender'

'Killers of the Flower Moon' star Lily Gladstone says that using she/they pronouns is partly 'a way of decolonizing gender for myself.'

ew.com

 

[BirdinHand]

With all the debate about the legitimacy of pronouns, it turns out that Native American culture doesn't rely on gender pronouns and frequently uses gender neutral terminology. How is it that Native American culture is more accepting of non-gendered pronouns than the rest of America and Europe?

My guess is religion.

 

[BrotherFease]

My guess is religion.

That is a good guess. Religion does have a tendency to shape our cultural values.

 

[ralfy]

The 'two-spirit' people of indigenous North Americans

This week's guest editor, Antony Hegarty, is a fan of the book The Spirit and the Flesh. He asked its author, Walter L Williams, to write a feature for the Guardian/music on the 'two-spirit' tradition in Native American culture

www.theguardian.com

Rather than emphasising the homosexuality of these persons, however, many Native Americans focused on their spiritual gifts. American Indian traditionalists, even today, tend to see a person's basic character as a reflection of their spirit. Since everything that exists is thought to come from the spirit world, androgynous or transgender persons are seen as doubly blessed, having both the spirit of a man and the spirit of a woman. Thus, they are honoured for having two spirits, and are seen as more spiritually gifted than the typical masculine male or feminine female.

...

Rather than the physical body, Native Americans emphasised a person's "spirit", or character, as being most important. Instead of seeing two-spirit persons as transsexuals who try to make themselves into "the opposite sex", it is more accurate to understand them as individuals who take on a gender status that is different from both men and women. This alternative gender status offers a range of possibilities, from slightly effeminate males or masculine females, to androgynous or transgender persons, to those who completely cross-dress and act as the other gender. The emphasis of Native Americans is not to force every person into one box, but to allow for the reality of diversity in gender and sexual identities.

The second paragraph is wrong, though. It's two spirits, not multiple.

 

[beefheart]

Lily is an amazing performer, so good in Reservation Dogs, and I will be watching the Scorcese film soon.

 

[Lisa]

The native tribes always had a concept of gender identity. Trans and non-binary people often held a higher social rank.

Two-spirit - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[ralfy]

Also, from the same wiki entry:

German anthropologist Sabine Lang writes that for Aboriginal people, sexual orientation or gender identity is secondary to their ethnic identity. "At the core of contemporary two-spirit identities is ethnicity, an awareness of being Native American as opposed to being white or being a member of any other ethnic group".[4]

...

Traditional Native American cultures that have ceremonial roles for gender-variant members of their communities may require that these people be recognized and assigned this role by tribal elders.[2] In these cultures, a traditional third-gender ceremonial or social role is a given title that cannot be self-selected. For these communities, two-spirit differs from the mainstream Western use of sexual and gender identity labels because it is a sacred, spiritual and ceremonial role that is recognized and confirmed only by tribal elders of that two-spirit person's Indigenous ceremonial community.[2] In these tribes, two-spirit people have specific duties, and the two-spirit title is not granted unless the person is fulfilling these ceremonial roles.[1]

...


Outside Indo-European-speaking societies, 'gender' would not be relevant to the social personae glosses 'men' and 'women', and 'third gender' likely would be meaningless. The unsavory word 'berdache' certainly ought to be ditched (Jacobs et al. 1997:3-5), but the urban American neologism 'two-spirit' can be misleading." She cautions that modern identity umbrella terms such as two-spirit can't be relied upon for accurate and respectful historical scholarship because they are too general and are produced out of modern contexts that their subjects do not come from. Additionally, she recommends against folding Native and two-spirit gender and sexual identities under the "Indo-European tag 'third gender.'"

and so on.

 

[Bodi]

“My pronoun use is partly a way of decolonizing gender for myself,”

She is an idiot.

 

[TheParser]

When it comes to pronouns, we should respect a person's wishes.

Life is too short and sad (as this 86-year-old well knows) to waste time fighting over pronouns!!!

 

[Aristaeus]

The native tribes always had a concept of gender identity. Trans and non-binary people often held a higher social rank.

Two-spirit - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Or ridiculed.

 

[Aristaeus]

Are we meant to use she or they?

 

[BrotherFease]

Are we meant to use she or they?

She has indicated that you can reference her by both feminine or neutral pronouns.

 

[BrotherFease]

Lily is an amazing performer, so good in Reservation Dogs, and I will be watching the Scorcese film soon.

It is an excellent film with a great cast and an important message. It is about the Osage Murders that happened at a Native American reservation in 1920s Oklahoma.

 

[Bucky]

Disclaimer: I will be using female pronouns to describe Ms. Gladstone. You guys are free to refer to Gladstone as she or they.

I am not sure if you guys are big film fans or not, but Lily Gladstone stars in a popular film called "Killers of the Flower Moon". It's the latest Martin Scorsese film and you can watch it on AppleTV+. She recently won the Golden Globe for Best Actress in a Drama and considered the favorite to win Best Actress at the Oscars.

With all the debate about the legitimacy of pronouns, it turns out that Native American culture doesn't rely on gender pronouns and frequently uses gender neutral terminology. How is it that Native American culture is more accepting of non-gendered pronouns than the rest of America and Europe?



BTW - If you haven't seen Killers of the Flower Moon, I highly recommended it. Excellent film. Hits on a lot of themes we're experiencing in our society today.

'Killers of the Flower Moon' star Lily Gladstone says using she/they pronouns is 'a way of decolonizing gender'

'Killers of the Flower Moon' star Lily Gladstone says that using she/they pronouns is partly 'a way of decolonizing gender for myself.'

ew.com

Great person. I was her classmate in High School. Total class-act.

 

[joluoto]

Finnish is a funny language to comment on in this debate. There is only one word in Finnish: Hän. Does not matter whethey you are male or female, your pronoun is Hän.

 

[Lycanthrope]

When it comes to pronouns, we should respect a person's wishes.

Life is too short and sad (as this 86-year-old well knows) to waste time fighting over pronouns!!!

*stamps feet like a toddler*

"Noooooo...if we do that the libz wiiiiiiiiin!"

 

[Aristaeus]

Finnish is a funny language to comment on in this debate. There is only one word in Finnish: Hän. Does not matter whethey you are male or female, your pronoun is Hän.

So I, me, mine, he, him, his, she, her, and hers are all hän? That must be confusing!

 

[joluoto]

So I, me, mine, he, him, his, she, her, and hers are all hän? That must be confusing!

I is minä, you is sinä, he/she is hän, we is me, you (plural) is te and they is he.

 

[Aristaeus]

I is minä, you is sinä, he/she is hän, we is me, you (plural) is te and they is he.

Ah, so 'my' pronoun could by one of many different words.

 

[OrphanSlug]

Fine, I'll say it. It is inherently problematic to promote to ignore biology, that will impact education and social development, then expect good things to happen.

The article starts talking about lack of gender pronouns in aged languages, but eventually Lily Gladstone talks about other motivations "I do feel that historically having gendered categories has helped from keeping women actors from a lot of erasure because I think historically people just tend to honor male performances more" on the way to gender neutral titles for aspects of film development.

If the language is the problem, and that would not surprise me given how sensitive modern liberalism is about everything, then address the nature of the language itself. But realize there are a plethora of languages out there considered to be some degree of grammatical gender based, and in absence dealing with the fundamentals of language then all that is being promoted is keeping the language yet confusing youth by clouding education as to not offend all the snowflakes.

Or, as someone else already pointed out... "idiot."

 

[Simon W. Moon]

Lily is an amazing performer, so good in Reservation Dogs, and I will be watching the Scorcese film soon.

She looks friend-shaped

 

[americanwoman]

The article starts talking about lack of gender pronouns in aged languages, but eventually Lily Gladstone talks about other motivations "I do feel that historically having gendered categories has helped from keeping women actors from a lot of erasure because I think historically people just tend to honor male performances more" on the way to gender neutral titles for aspects of film development.

Furthermore, to me, she also comes off a bit "not like other girls" like all group of ladies are stereotypical versions who she alone doesn't fit in with. Beyond that I do respect what she wants to be called and what she identifies with but I'm sure there are plenty of groups of ladies where she could fit in just fine and not be "different".

“My pronoun use is partly a way of decolonizing gender for myself,” the Killers of the Flower Moon actor told PEOPLE, adding that using she/they pronouns is also a means of “embracing that when I'm in a group of ladies, I know that I'm a little bit different. When I'm in a group of men, I don't feel like a man. I don't feel [masculine] at all. I feel probably more feminine when I'm around other men.”

 

[BrotherFease]

Fine, I'll say it. It is inherently problematic to promote to ignore biology, that will impact education and social development, then expect good things to happen.

How so? They are called "gender pronouns", not "sex pronouns". Gender = sociology & psychology. Sex = sex chromosomes, genitals. This point cannot be emphasized enough. Also, there's evidence to point to gender being biological as well.

Gender pronouns are apart of social preference society.

Native American culture doesn't rely on specific pronouns. I do not think it is right to call her an "idiot" because she is okay with people referencing her by female pronouns or gender neutral pronouns, or that she wants to honor her heritage.

 

[Napoleon]

How is it that Native American culture is more accepting of non-gendered pronouns than the rest of America and Europe?

It isn’t. Just a misperception created after some gay native Americans got together in the early 90s and created the “two-spirit” mythology. It is not and never has been part of mainstream Native American culture.

 

[Lisa]

Fine, I'll say it. It is inherently problematic to promote to ignore biology, that will impact education and social development, then expect good things to happen.

The article starts talking about lack of gender pronouns in aged languages, but eventually Lily Gladstone talks about other motivations "I do feel that historically having gendered categories has helped from keeping women actors from a lot of erasure because I think historically people just tend to honor male performances more" on the way to gender neutral titles for aspects of film development.

If the language is the problem, and that would not surprise me given how sensitive modern liberalism is about everything, then address the nature of the language itself. But realize there are a plethora of languages out there considered to be some degree of grammatical gender based, and in absence dealing with the fundamentals of language then all that is being promoted is keeping the language yet confusing youth by clouding education as to not offend all the snowflakes.

Or, as someone else already pointed out... "idiot."

Does that biology include the biology of the trans/NBs person brain, or are you another person who is going to try to ignore gender idneity and only focus on the person's genitalia and chromosomes to if the person is male or female?

When we looked at the literature, there were some structural and functional differences between the transgender brain and the cisgender brain. I categorize these changes as structural and functional because they’re a little bit different when it comes to which areas are affected.


Postmortem studies, which focused on male-to-female transgender brain, found that the brain volumes of transgender women were similar to that of cisgender females in certain areas, such as the central nucleus of the bed stria terminalis or interstitial nuclei of the anterior hypothalamus. These are areas that are essential in sexual behaviors, and the fact that the transgender female brain resembles the cisgender brain was important.


Researchers also looked at some gray-matter volumes and cortical thickness. Again, transgender brains showed similarities to the identified gender even before the patients started hormonal treatment.


When it comes to functional findings, the fMRI findings of the transgender brain versus the cisgender brain, the self body image networks become very, very important. Within the self body image networks, there was decreased connectivity in the transgender population compared to the cisgender population, showing that there was an issue with body self-perception in transgender people.


Other functional studies looked at brain activation. People were given certain tasks, and the activation of certain brain areas was reviewed. Again, transgender people showed a lot of similarities to their identified gender as opposed to their biological gender.

The Brain and Gender Identity: Current Evidence and Implications for Practice (Podcast)

A psychiatrist with expertise in gender dysphoria explores implications of documented structural and functional differences between transgender and cisgender brains.

consultqd.clevelandclinic.org

It isn’t. Just a misperception created after some gay native Americans got together in the early 90s and created the “two-spirit” mythology. It is not and never has been part of mainstream Native American culture.

Would that be the 1990s or would it be the 1490s?

History​

The term two-spirit is a modern word for describing the concept of a feminine and masculine spirit living in the same person. However, this concept has a long history in Indigenous cultures, which have recognized that people have masculine and feminine spirits that can live in harmony with their masculine or feminine beings.

Historically, two-spirit people used to play important functions in their culture and often had a special status in their community. They are individuals who are seen as having two different identities living in one body.

Many Indigenous cultures believe people are born gender-neutral with both feminine and masculine spirits and that people can determine themselves when they are old enough. Having the spirits of two genders is a special gift for Indigenous cultures, and people with this gift held respected positions in their communities.

Two spirit: History and meaning

Two-spirit is an umbrella term referring to Indigenous people who are part of the LGBTQIA+ community. They can have both feminine and masculine traits.

www.medicalnewstoday.com