Athletes Support Transgender Athletes

[Scatty Kitty]

There’s a lot to unpack there. First, you may be only doing sports for funsies but sports are the only shot at a future for a lot of kids. It’s what they’re relying on to pull them out of poverty and give them a chance to be something other than a statistic. And they take it very seriously,

When you make an argument, you're supposed to put your best point first. This is your worst point.

Second, fairness is a critical element of sports. The reason sports are sex segregated in the first place is that women would otherwise never win anything in most sports. The shifting sands of psychological identify are not a compelling reason to overlook how inherently unfair it is to commingle the sexes. If you need an example to make that real for you then just look at what happen with William Thomas aka Lia Thomas. He was ranked somewhere in the 400s nationally but rocketed to 1st merely by saying he identifies as a woman.

I might believe that argument if you can explain to me the biological advantage men have against women in chess.

It might be one thing when you’re competing where nothing is at stake other than the integrity of sportsmanship. It’s something else entirely when people are relying on competitions for scholarships and a chance to make something of themselves. The insatiable desire of trans for public affirmation and validation is not worth robbing someone of their future.

So me having fun is a danger to society because I'm meeting my own fitness goals in a way I'm enjoying?

Weird take but okay. I mean heck this is the point I'm making. You're so worried about "society" and the "only way for kids to succeed" that you're not even focusing on the fact that sports are fun! I'm enjoying myself when I practice and play.

 

[Scatty Kitty]

Have fun. You face too much hell as it is.

Thanks, I appreciate it.

 

[Integrityrespec]

You know that isn’t true. The inherent advantages of men over women in most sports are why they’re segregated in the first place.

There is no evidence to support the claim that men don't have a physical advantage over women. Anyone who claims that or believes that is either a liar, ignorant of science or jus trying to stir usp sh--.Trans women certainly have biological advantages over biological women.

 

[Integrityrespec]

When you make an argument, you're supposed to put your best point first. This is your worst point.


I might believe that argument if you can explain to me the biological advantage men have against women in chess.



So me having fun is a danger to society because I'm meeting my own fitness goals in a way I'm enjoying?

Weird take but okay. I mean heck this is the point I'm making. You're so worried about "society" and the "only way for kids to succeed" that you're not even focusing on the fact that sports are fun! I'm enjoying myself when I practice and play.

Chess is not a competition based upon strength, speed, or physical size. It's not a physical competition.

 

[Scatty Kitty]

I agree with noonereal. Many women fought very hard to have Title IX enacted as it was, to require that women's sports are provided for and protected. I'm neither trans nor a woman, so I genuinely don't understand why the basis of that law is seen by trans women as threatening to non-trans people. Please help me understand.

Well here's a simple argument. Why can't kids just have fun? Or even adults? I mean we put so much pressure on people when they're athletes it can seriously hurt them.

Shocking Statistics about High School Student-Athlete Injuries

If you’ve been harmed at your gym facility or while working with a personal trainer, it’s time to exercise your rights for compensation. Contact the Weinstein Legal Team today.

www.thelawofwe.com

Upwards of 90% get hurt while they play their sport. I think the answer is much simpler than "sports must be provided for and protected". I think it's just proof of something obvious that we've forgotten. Kids deserve to have fun. Athletes deserve to have fun. And big sports events where there's a mentality of go big or go home can seriously hurt people and it's just an unrealistic goal to meet. Trans athletes deserve to have fun just like any other athlete.

 

[Scatty Kitty]

Chess is not a competition based upon strength, speed, or physical size. It's not a physical competition.

So why are trans women banned from participating as women?

"But while these concerns would seemingly not apply to chess - a sport in which mental fitness is more relevant than supposed physical differences - the International Chess Federation (Fide) has chosen to ban trans women from female-only events."

Transgender chess decision: New Fide rules criticised by players but welcomed by committee chair

In August, Fide introduced a ban on trans women competing in female-only events. The reasons and motivations have been questioned by some but welcomed by others.

www.bbc.com

 

[Scatty Kitty]

First I appreciate you being open about this. I'm really just trying to understand and I don't intend any offense.

Don't worry, I wouldn't have started this thread if I didn't think people wouldn't have questions.

So hypothetically if you had the ability to change your sex completely in not talking what we see as transition but if you could change your body down to the chromosome into a female body completely would you do that or would you want to retain some part of your pre transition biology?

I don't know, probably not. I would be happy just being as I am. That's all I care about at the end of the day.

And just to be fair I would say that if I could go totally back to being male all the way down to be coming home today point at which I am now I would try just to experience it. But if it was a one-way thing I couldn't do it.

Yeah there are differences a lot between gay people and trans people but I think we're groups together because of the similarities and there are a few. The predominant one is being cultural outcast less these days but in the 60s when it started it was very different
I'm sure there's probably a lot of machines for a lot of people who are trans too. I grew up in the '80s and 90s. And remember seeing transsexuals what they were called the most days in sitcoms and TV shows and it was often treated like a punchline.

One hundred percent. I don't think I got any sort of positive representation until I was in my teens. I was very lucky to have grown up in the 2010's. There was a lot of hope back then.

Having some sort of physical fitness goals has been a great thing in my life so I think it's probably good for anybody to pursue it.

Thanks. It's nothing special, but I would like to see if I can get "physically fit" by the end of summer. Nothing too special.

 

[Fearandloathing]

I was thinking about something that happened to me the other day. I am transgender and I also started getting into a new sport. I don't particularly like it but I want to get into shape and feel good about myself. Am I good by any stretch of the word? No. Will I ever compete with the pros? No. Will I ever be good at even a local level? Don't make me cry. But still I like the sport enough to keep doing it. In fact after typing up this OP I'll probably start getting ready to practice.

I went to my first event for this sport a couple of weeks ago. I decided to wear my trans flag while I competed. And it was horrible outside. Absolutely terrible. Like miserably terrible. Like "I'm jealous of the people watching us" terrible. But still I completed it and I met all of my fitness goals, and then some! But at the end of the event I heard something from people who didn't compete. Something from people who didn't bother getting out of their comfort zone. "Hey look, it's one of those trans" followed by laughter.

The thing is, while they're sitting on their butts watching people compete, I was out doing my sport. And all of the other athletes I was with supported me for being trans and being with them. They were just as miserable as I was but there they were supporting me as I was supporting them. They realized I was one of them competing with them and they were happy with me being there. The only people who didn't seem to want me there were the people sitting on the sidelines who didn't even bother being out in the miserable weather. It takes a special mentality to realize that sports are meant to be fun and enjoyable for everyone. People who get so focused on winning medals or scholarships or glory completely fail to remember why we play sports in the first place. They're fun! Sure it was miserable but I got to have so much fun with everyone I met. And I got to make friends!

At the end of the day I think that's it. People who don't want trans people playing sports (and I do use that phrase specifically) forget too often that sports are supposed to be for fun. Not for anything else. So let people have fun. Let people compete because they want to.

PS If you don't know what the trans flag is, don't start the hate speech.

I know the transgender flag very well. I just don't think it's good by any measure and fails entirely at making an impactful statement.

Boring!

I live in Vancouver Canada where the international multi-color emblem adorns one of three poles at city hall...equal to the flag of British Columbia and the Canada Maple Leaf emblem.

I am 79. I have the three gender symbol tattooed on my neck. My closest friend is trans whom I have known for going on two decades. If I had to do it over I would change the symbol so that the circle is now a heart shape

Shit happens. But know that for every asshole making a dumb comment there are twelve people in quiet support...and honor your courage,

Being Canadian I will rest when we have trans hockey!

 

[coyote505]

I was thinking about something that happened to me the other day. I am transgender and I also started getting into a new sport. I don't particularly like it but I want to get into shape and feel good about myself. Am I good by any stretch of the word? No. Will I ever compete with the pros? No. Will I ever be good at even a local level? Don't make me cry. But still I like the sport enough to keep doing it. In fact after typing up this OP I'll probably start getting ready to practice.

I went to my first event for this sport a couple of weeks ago. I decided to wear my trans flag while I competed. And it was horrible outside. Absolutely terrible. Like miserably terrible. Like "I'm jealous of the people watching us" terrible. But still I completed it and I met all of my fitness goals, and then some! But at the end of the event I heard something from people who didn't compete. Something from people who didn't bother getting out of their comfort zone. "Hey look, it's one of those trans" followed by laughter.

The thing is, while they're sitting on their butts watching people compete, I was out doing my sport. And all of the other athletes I was with supported me for being trans and being with them. They were just as miserable as I was but there they were supporting me as I was supporting them. They realized I was one of them competing with them and they were happy with me being there. The only people who didn't seem to want me there were the people sitting on the sidelines who didn't even bother being out in the miserable weather. It takes a special mentality to realize that sports are meant to be fun and enjoyable for everyone. People who get so focused on winning medals or scholarships or glory completely fail to remember why we play sports in the first place. They're fun! Sure it was miserable but I got to have so much fun with everyone I met. And I got to make friends!

At the end of the day I think that's it. People who don't want trans people playing sports (and I do use that phrase specifically) forget too often that sports are supposed to be for fun. Not for anything else. So let people have fun. Let people compete because they want to.

PS If you don't know what the trans flag is, don't start the hate speech.

Where the sport is just for fun, maybe even no score being kept, there is no reason it can't be coed, either formally or de-facto. Where the sport is being played for money, scholarships, etc., Title IX was put in at much struggle and expense, so that women would have a level playing field. No group should be allowed to shit can it.

 

[Fearandloathing]

Transgender women aren't men.

Oh!

Do we simply leave it at that and play guess what? Or, do you have an alternative?

 

[Scatty Kitty]

I know the transgender flag very well. I just don't think it's good by any measure and fails entirely at making an impactful statement.

Boring!

I live in Vancouver Canada where the international multi-color emblem adorns one of three poles at city hall...equal to the flag of British Columbia and the Canada Maple Leaf emblem.

I am 79. I have the three gender symbol tattooed on my neck. My closest friend is trans whom I have known for going on two decades. If I had to do it over I would change the symbol so that the circle is now a heart shape

Shit happens. But know that for every asshole making a dumb comment there are twelve people in quiet support...and honor your courage,

Being Canadian I will rest when we have trans hockey!

I won't lie my friends were just having a conversation about how our flag is so boring. We were thinking of adding flowers to it. I think a nice flower would go great on the flag. That being said, I would love to go to a hockey game again. They're so fun!

 

[Lisa]

There is no evidence to support the claim that men don't have a physical advantage over women. Anyone who claims that or believes that is either a liar, ignorant of science or jus trying to stir usp sh--.Trans women certainly have biological advantages over biological women.

The hormones and other drugs that are part of their transition negate that advantage over the space of a year.

 

[Scatty Kitty]

Where the sport is just for fun, maybe even no score being kept, there is no reason it can't be coed, either formally or de-facto. Where the sport is being played for money, scholarships, etc., Title IX was put in at much struggle and expense, so that women would have a level playing field. No group should be allowed to shit can it.

So why are we placing so much emphasis on that "struggle and expense"? If anything it's just going to hurt people. Wouldn't it be nicer if we could just play for fun and let people have fun playing sports?

 

[Fearandloathing]

Well here's a simple argument. Why can't kids just have fun? Or even adults? I mean we put so much pressure on people when they're athletes it can seriously hurt them.

Shocking Statistics about High School Student-Athlete Injuries

If you’ve been harmed at your gym facility or while working with a personal trainer, it’s time to exercise your rights for compensation. Contact the Weinstein Legal Team today.

www.thelawofwe.com

Upwards of 90% get hurt while they play their sport. I think the answer is much simpler than "sports must be provided for and protected". I think it's just proof of something obvious that we've forgotten. Kids deserve to have fun. Athletes deserve to have fun. And big sports events where there's a mentality of go big or go home can seriously hurt people and it's just an unrealistic goal to meet. Trans athletes deserve to have fun just like any other athlete.

Yeah!

I used to coach hockey to 5 to ten year olds. At that age you could mix girls and boys and girls had the advantage! It was a sure way to get our team 'up' for a league game saying they had to practice against the bigger, stronger girls!

And girls can sooooooo play hockey!

 

[Scatty Kitty]

Yeah!

I used to coach hockey to 5 to ten year olds. At that age you could mix girls and boys and girls had the advantage! It was a sure way to get our team 'up' for a league game saying they had to practice against the bigger, stronger girls!

And girls can sooooooo play hockey!

Nice! My biological dad used to play hockey growing up but never showed me how to even ice skate. When I got to college there was a hockey rink nearby and I used to go ice skating all of the time. He was so proud of me he got me my own ice skates. I still have them too. I really need to find a place near me to go ice skating.

 

[Napoleon]

I might believe that argument if you can explain to me the biological advantage men have against women in chess.

That is actually a good question and you might be surprised to learn that men tend to rank higher than women in chess tournaments and there are sex-segregated tournaments and a woman-only world championship for that reason. It isn’t conclusively known why men are better at chess but it seems to be a product of psychology. But I don’t consider chess a sport.

So me having fun is a danger to society because I'm meeting my own fitness goals in a way I'm enjoying?

Weird take but okay. I mean heck this is the point I'm making. You're so worried about "society" and the "only way for kids to succeed" that you're not even focusing on the fact that sports are fun! I'm enjoying myself when I practice and play.

Has it occurred to you that it isn’t just about you and you’re viewing it from the perspective of someone who has unfair advantages? I wouldn’t be having fun if I knew I was only winning because I wasn’t playing fair. I’m sure it wasn’t fun for the women displaced by William Thomas.

 

[Scatty Kitty]

That is actually a good question and you might be surprised to learn that men tend to rank higher than women in chess tournaments and there are sex-segregated tournaments and a woman-only world championship for that reason. It isn’t conclusively known why men are better at chess but it seems to be a product of psychology.

So you don't have a reason why men are biologically superior to women in chess. Most people who study the issue don't point to something as broad as psychology by the way. Keep at it.

Has it occurred to you that it isn’t just about you and you’re viewing it from the perspective of someone who has unfair advantages? I wouldn’t be having fun if I knew I was only winning because I wasn’t playing fair. I’m sure it wasn’t fun for the women displaced by William Thomas.

You think I have an unfair advantage? I'm so sorry but that's just hilarious I want you to say that again. Please, please I'm begging you. Tell me that I have unfair advantages again.

 

[Napoleon]

So you don't have a reason why men are biologically superior to women in chess. Most people who study the issue don't point to something as broad as psychology by the way. Keep at it.

The fact remains that men are better at chess than women. Knowing why doesn’t change anything and science currently doesn’t know.

You think I have an unfair advantage? I'm so sorry but that's just hilarious I want you to say that again. Please, please I'm begging you. Tell me that I have unfair advantages again.

You have unfair advantages if you’re a man competing against women in sports. And it’s rather ironic that all we’re getting out of you in a conversation about the integrity of sports is a lot of I, I, I, me, me, me.

 

[Fearandloathing]

So why are we placing so much emphasis on that "struggle and expense"? If anything it's just going to hurt people. Wouldn't it be nicer if we could just play for fun and let people have fun playing sports?

We teach that winning is not the entire reason for the game. Winning is merely a measurement of the circumstances of that game and only that game.

What matters is 'how did you play?"

Did you play for ego and hog the puck? Or, were you a team guy and n b

Nice! My biological dad used to play hockey growing up but never showed me how to even ice skate. When I got to college there was a hockey rink nearby and I used to go ice skating all of the time. He was so proud of me he got me my own ice skates. I still have them too. I really need to find a place near me to go ice skating.

Being Canadian we played street hockey all year round. Mostly my ice time was on frozen ponds or the lake in the park. I never skated indoor until I was 13.

We mostly played street hockey in those days. There is a code in Canada that relates. "Car!" is what you yelled out when a car came along and interrupted your road game. For 15 years it was a rallying cry at junior hockey events. "Car!" It sure confused the shit out of our opponents.

Ice skating is where you met girls and if lucky one would let you skate with them. It was always a humbling experience since girls had been practicing toe turns and spins since age 3 and all the boys ever got was all out grunge force. 0 to 30 mph in 3 seconds but that fancy shit? Nah.

 

[Scatty Kitty]

The fact remains that men are better at chess than women. Knowing why doesn’t change anything and science currently doesn’t know.

So you can't do the thing I asked. Noted.

You have unfair advantages if you’re a man competing against women in sports. And it’s rather ironic that all we’re getting out of you in a conversation about the integrity of sports is a lot of I, I, I, me, me, me.

You do realize that I have severe leg pain right? Like to the point where it barred me from walking? For years?

Also I just competed a couple of weeks ago and let me tell you...I did worse than the average person. I met all of my fitness goals, but I wasn't that good at what I did.

 

[RetiredAtLast]

Well here's a simple argument. Why can't kids just have fun? Or even adults? I mean we put so much pressure on people when they're athletes it can seriously hurt them.

I certainly agree with that. But what I didn't understand was the notion that people are "threatened" by trans people engaged in a sport.

 

[Napoleon]

So you can't do the thing I asked. Noted.

Science doesn’t have an answer for you.

You do realize that I have severe leg pain right? Like to the point where it barred me from walking? For years?

Also I just competed a couple of weeks ago and let me tell you...I did worse than the average person. I met all of my fitness goals, but I wasn't that good at what I did.

I, I, I. Me, me me. Are we talking about the integrity of sports or your autobiography?

 

[CLAX1911]

Don't worry, I wouldn't have started this thread if I didn't think people wouldn't have questions.

I know I can come off a bit opinionated.

I don't know, probably not. I would be happy just being as I am. That's all I care about at the end of the day.

When you first started would you have? I understand the journey is often more important than the destination.

One hundred percent. I don't think I got any sort of positive representation until I was in my teens. I was very lucky to have grown up in the 2010's. There was a lot of hope back then.

Yeah things changed pretty quick.

Thanks. It's nothing special, but I would like to see if I can get "physically fit" by the end of summer. Nothing too special.

It helps mentally too. You'll get there.

 

[Fearandloathing]

So you can't do the thing I asked. Noted.



You do realize that I have severe leg pain right? Like to the point where it barred me from walking? For years?

Also I just competed a couple of weeks ago and let me tell you...I did worse than the average person. I met all of my fitness goals, but I wasn't that good at what I did.

I know the feeling in reverse.

I can't do what I used to do at 22.

At 79 I have to rest half way up the three flights of stairs at my building.

This body has been hard used. Alcoholic drug addict until I was almost 40. Have climbed mountains and dived the deep. Walked a volcano field and a glacier. I ran two marathons...one as a smoker.

Some days I want it just to be over....but for the most part I am living in a heaven in Vancouver with great friends and never without something interesting to do.

 

[Scatty Kitty]

We teach that winning is not the entire reason for the game. Winning is merely a measurement of the circumstances of that game and only that game.

What matters is 'how did you play?"

Did you play for ego and hog the puck? Or, were you a team guy and n b

Right that's more or less what I was taught growing up. I won't lie I was kinda a.... dumb kid. I used to compete in tournaments but never understood why I was getting trophies. I always wanted to just have fun. It wasn't until I was older that I realized I was just playing for fun.

Being Canadian we played street hockey all year round. Mostly my ice time was on frozen ponds or the lake in the park. I never skated indoor until I was 13.

We mostly played street hockey in those days. There is a code in Canada that relates. "Car!" is what you yelled out when a car came along and interrupted your road game. For 15 years it was a rallying cry at junior hockey events. "Car!" It sure confused the shit out of our opponents.

Ice skating is where you met girls and if lucky one would let you skate with them. It was always a humbling experience since girls had been practicing toe turns and spins since age 3 and all the boys ever got was all out grunge force. 0 to 30 mph in 3 seconds but that fancy shit? Nah.

Nope we don't have those things in the streets anymore. I used to live near a high school and the teens would cut through my neighborhood as a shortcut. See I'm jealous of that, I wish I could get into ice skating more. There's just no place around here I can do it. I can't drop like $15 a week doing ice skating for a couple of hours.