Atheists, lets get real

[TypicalRussian]

The Gospel of David??



Self-created fear, social and familial pressure, the need to 'fit-in'

no the Gospel itself

those are great reasons, why not fit in!

 

[Somerville]

no the Gospel itself

those are great reasons, why not fit in!

My question, which I obviously mis-worded -- In what Bible do you find the Gospel of David?

 

[TypicalRussian]

My question, which I obviously mis-worded -- In what Bible do you find the Gospel of David?

you dont- i answered the question personally

like it is THE GOSPEL,david

 

[dairyair]

why do yu need to know

It is key as to the claim of the god of Abraham being the father of Jesus.

If Joseph is the biological father as your link claimed, then Jesus was a man like every other man.

But you claimed the answer is in the bible. But I now think you are wrong. I think you know you are wrong.

That is how atheists got real. From terrible answers about the story(s) surrounding the god of Abraham and Jesus.

 

[Somerville]

you dont- i answered the question personally

like it is THE GOSPEL,david

OK, which GOSPEL? There are a few

I. INTRODUCTORY_

1. Early Gospels

2. Canonical Gospels

3. Apocryphal Gospels

4. Gospel according to the Hebrews

_II. HERETICAL GOSPELS_

1. Gospel of the Ebionites

2. Gospel of the Egyptians

3. Gospel of Marcion

4. Gospel of Peter

5. Gospel of the Twelve Apostles

6. Gospels of Barnabas and Bartholomew

_III. SUPPLEMENTARY OR LEGENDARY GOSPELS_

1. Gospels of the Nativity

(a) Protevangelium of James

(b) Pseudo-Matthew

(c) The Nativity of Mary

(d) Gospel of Joseph the Carpenter

(e) The Passing of Mary

2. Gospels of the Infancy or Childhood

(a) Gospel of Thomas

(b) Arabic Gospel of the Childhood

3. Gospels of the Passion and Resurrection

(a) Gospel of Peter

(b) Gospel of Nicodemus

(1) Acts of Pilate

(2) Descent of Jesus into the Lower World

Apocryphal Gospels - International Standard Bible Encyclopedia

 

[devildavid]

everything in the Gospel David

what "truth" do you think im talking about?

What is the truth of jesus?

 

[devildavid]

what other reason would people switch from atheism to religion?

Or vice versa. Or from one religion to another?

 

[pinqy]

You do realize the accounts you mention are speaking of different times...Jesus’ encounter with Mary Magdalene...his appearing twice to his apostles and at the 2nd time when Thomas was present and was convinced...John also tells of Jesus’ appearance at the sea of Galilee, on which occasion he asked Peter three times whether he loved him or not...John 21:1-24...

I was referring to the first appearance after the crucifixtion:
1 Corinthians says it was to Peter
Luke says to Cleopas and another disciple.
Mark makes no mention at all
Matthew says to Mary Magdalene and other women outside the tomb
John says to Mary Magdalene alone inside the tomb.

Paul, John, and Matthew were specific about that being the first appearance. For Luke it would have to be explained why he didn’t mention an earlier appeats ce.

The most logical explanation is that all were second or third accounts that had morphed.

 

[Daisy]

I was referring to the first appearance after the crucifixtion:
1 Corinthians says it was to Peter
Luke says to Cleopas and another disciple.
Mark makes no mention at all
Matthew says to Mary Magdalene and other women outside the tomb
John says to Mary Magdalene alone inside the tomb.

Paul, John, and Matthew were specific about that being the first appearance. For Luke it would have to be explained why he didn’t mention an earlier appeats ce.

The most logical explanation is that all were second or third accounts that had morphed.

Where does it say Jesus appeared to anyone 1st? You have no idea the sequence of events nor does it matter...

 

[pinqy]

Where does it say Jesus appeared to anyone 1st? You have no idea the sequence of events nor does it matter...

1 Corinthians 15:3-7
For among the first things I handed on to you was what I also received, that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures;c 4 and that he was buried,d yes, that he was raised upe on the third dayf according to the Scriptures;g 5 and that he appeared to Ceʹphas,h and then to the Twelve.i 6 After that he appeared to more than 500 brothers at one time,j most of whom are still with us, though some have fallen asleep in death. 7 After that he appeared to James,k then to all the apostles.l 8 But last of all he appeared also to mem as if to one born prematurely.

That’s a pretty explicit order of appearance.
Matthew mentions no appearance before that to the women outside the tomb and then mentions on a mountain in Galilee
Luke talks about the discovery of the empty tomb but no mention of Jesus there. Second appearance to the disciples in a room.
John says Jesus was in the tomb with Mary Magdalene. And then appeared to disciples in a room.

So....did Paul and Luke and Mark know about Jesus at the tomb and decided it wasn’t important?
Did Jesus appear inside and then outside the tomb or did Matthew or John change the location?
Why did only Luke mention Cleopas?
Why did only Matthew mention a mountain?

Anything other than the authors relaying the versions they heard requires some level of omission or dishonesty from the authors.
The only explanation that does not require deliberate omission or insertion is that they honestly reported what they had heard, but they all heard different things.

 

[Daisy]

1 Corinthians 15:3-7
For among the first things I handed on to you was what I also received, that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures;c 4 and that he was buried,d yes, that he was raised upe on the third dayf according to the Scriptures;g 5 and that he appeared to Ceʹphas,h and then to the Twelve.i 6 After that he appeared to more than 500 brothers at one time,j most of whom are still with us, though some have fallen asleep in death. 7 After that he appeared to James,k then to all the apostles.l 8 But last of all he appeared also to mem as if to one born prematurely.

That’s a pretty explicit order of appearance.
Matthew mentions no appearance before that to the women outside the tomb and then mentions on a mountain in Galilee
Luke talks about the discovery of the empty tomb but no mention of Jesus there. Second appearance to the disciples in a room.
John says Jesus was in the tomb with Mary Magdalene. And then appeared to disciples in a room.

So....did Paul and Luke and Mark know about Jesus at the tomb and decided it wasn’t important?
Did Jesus appear inside and then outside the tomb or did Matthew or John change the location?
Why did only Luke mention Cleopas?
Why did only Matthew mention a mountain?

Anything other than the authors relaying the versions they heard requires some level of omission or dishonesty from the authors.
The only explanation that does not require deliberate omission or insertion is that they honestly reported what they had heard, but they all heard different things.

It's called eyewitness accounts evidently passed on to them by the ones who saw Jesus...here is a summary of the events if you're truly interested...remember, Jesus was on the earth 40 days after his resurrection and before his ascension...

An Empty Tomb—Jesus Is Alive! — Watchtower ONLINE LIBRARY

The Resurrected Jesus Appears to Many — Watchtower ONLINE LIBRARY

On the Shore of the Sea of Galilee — Watchtower ONLINE LIBRARY

Hundreds See Him Prior to Pentecost — Watchtower ONLINE LIBRARY

 

[RAMOSS]

It's called eyewitness accounts evidently passed on to them by the ones who saw Jesus...here is a summary of the events if you're truly interested...remember, Jesus was on the earth 40 days after his resurrection and before his ascension...

An Empty Tomb—Jesus Is Alive! — Watchtower ONLINE LIBRARY

The Resurrected Jesus Appears to Many — Watchtower ONLINE LIBRARY

On the Shore of the Sea of Galilee — Watchtower ONLINE LIBRARY

Hundreds See Him Prior to Pentecost — Watchtower ONLINE LIBRARY

That's a pretty horrendous bunch of nonsense there. It makes the assumption that stories are true, yet, they are all written second, third or 4th hand. It's a really pitiful attempt at rationalization.

 

[Individual]

"switch to atheism"... You make it sound like a religion.

No. I just dropped the 'God' stuff from my life.

People are not born believing in God(s) or anything supernatural, beliefs are acquired or not acquired most often at an early age when their minds are most malleable.
I, for one, simply never acquired such a belief and remained an atheist from birth.

 

[Lisa]

These discussions are not my thing. Too many words, too little meaning. It is not evidence you lack, it is faith.

Sent from my FIG-LX1 using Tapatalk

Where is the empirical proof that any supernatural creator deity exists in a way that does not require the use of faith or religious belief to support your claim? Until you can prove that god actually exist the rest of your apologetic post is religious word salad.

 

[Daisy]

Where is the empirical proof that any supernatural creator deity exists in a way that does not require the use of faith or religious belief to support your claim? Until you can prove that god actually exist the rest of your apologetic post is religious word salad.

 

[RAMOSS]

That does sound like an excuse to avoid giving the empirical evidence. That kind of deflection is what I would expect from someone who has nothing but unsupported claims and 'feelings'

 

[pinqy]

Luke 1:1-4 has the following:

“Many have undertaken to draw up an account of the things that have been fulfilled among us, just as they were handed down to us by those who from the first were eyewitnesses and servants of the word. Therefore, since I myself have carefully investigated everything from the beginning, it seemed good also to me to write an orderly account for you, most excellent Theophilus, so that you may know the certainty of the things you have been taught.”

In addition, Peter (in his second epistle) wrote: “We did not follow cleverly invented stories when we told you about the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but we were eyewitnesses of his majesty.”

In addition, the apostle John begins his first epistle this way:

“That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked at and our hands have touched—this we proclaim concerning the Word of life. The life appeared; we have seen it and testify to it, and we proclaim to you the eternal life, which was with the Father and has appeared to us. We proclaim to you what we have seen and heard, so that you also may have fellowship with us. And our fellowship is with the Father and with his Son, Jesus Christ.” (1 John 1:1-4).

Next was the Apostle Paul, who wrote about seeing Jesus after his resurrection: “Am I not free? Am I not an apostle? Have I not seen Jesus our Lord? Are you not the result of my work in the Lord?” (1 Corinthians 9:1)

What’s more, there were over 500 individuals who reportedly saw the risen Jesus. Paul wrote about this in 1 Corinthians 15:3-8:

“For what I received I passed on to you as of first importance: that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, that he was buried, that he was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures, and that he appeared to Cephas, and then to the Twelve. After that, he appeared to more than five hundred of the brothers and sisters at the same time, most of whom are still living, though some have fallen asleep. Then he appeared to James, then to all the apostles, and last of all he appeared to me also…”

The 1st Corinthian passage above is one of the oldest creeds in Christianity and is said to have originated just a handful of years after the resurrection of Jesus.

Liberal theologian John Dominic Crossan writes,

“Paul wrote to the Corinthians from Ephesus in the early 50’s C.E. But he says in 1st Corinthians 15:3 that “I handed on to you as of first importance that which I in turn received.” The most likely source and time for his reception of that tradition would have been Jerusalem in the early 30’s when – according to Galatians 1:18 – he “went up to Jerusalem to visit Cephas (Peter) and stayed with him fifteen days.”

So, now you have multiple eyewitness accounts. Oh - you can offer up your usual sophomoric denials in your postings, but they would just be another mindless exercise in ignorance and deception, and would require a much greater faith to believe in than a religious creationist could possibly muster.

Jesus is Risen Indeed!!!

I had forgotten Luke’s claim of careful investigation.

But again, we do NOT have any eyewitness accounts of the empty tomb, only second or third hand accounts. And they don’t match, so we have no means of determining which, if any, is the more accurate account.

And the same is true for the first appearance of Jesus. All accounts disagree. So the options are:
A. Some authors deliberately left things out
B. Some authors deliberately added things.
C. The authors all heard different versions.
D. A and B.
E. A, B, and C.

The bottom line is that none of the accounts is reliable by itself, so we cannot judge the accuracy of any of them.

 

[Daisy]

I had forgotten Luke’s claim of careful investigation.

But again, we do NOT have any eyewitness accounts of the empty tomb, only second or third hand accounts. And they don’t match, so we have no means of determining which, if any, is the more accurate account.

And the same is true for the first appearance of Jesus. All accounts disagree. So the options are:
A. Some authors deliberately left things out
B. Some authors deliberately added things.
C. The authors all heard different versions.
D. A and B.
E. A, B, and C.

The bottom line is that none of the accounts is reliable by itself, so we cannot judge the accuracy of any of them.

You forgot the true and most logical one...

F. The authors all heard/saw different events concerning the resurrected Jesus while on earth for another 40 days, and reported them...

 

[pinqy]

You forgot the true and most logical one...

F. The authors all heard/saw different events concerning the resurrected Jesus while on earth for another 40 days, and reported them...

That was option C

 

[Daisy]

That was option C

Nope...you said different versions...as in lies...mine said they heard different events during the time period of 40 days...

 

[pinqy]

Nope...you said different versions...as in lies...mine said they heard different events during the time period of 40 days...

I said different versions, I did not say nor imply lies. 2 accounts of broad events neither complete are two different versions.

 

[Daisy]

I said different versions, I did not say nor imply lies. 2 accounts of broad events neither complete are two different versions.

But let's face it...that's what you've implied in the past...that somebody's lying, when it's quite possible they're all correct, from their individual perspectives of events...

 

[Somerville]

But let's face it...that's what you've implied in the past...that somebody's lying, when it's quite possible they're all correct, from their individual perspectives of events...

OR - the multiple authors of these books were simply writing fiction with little intention for their audience to believe the stories were little more than lessons on desired behaviour and not actual history.

 

[devildavid]

OR - the multiple authors of these books were simply writing fiction with little intention for their audience to believe the stories were little more than lessons on desired behaviour and not actual history.

She doesn't seem to understand what it means to lie.

 

[TypicalRussian]

Or vice versa. Or from one religion to another?

well thats a different scenario