• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Atheists are smarter

Daisy said:
Neither...he just makes himself look dumb...God doesn't need anyone to speak for Him, that's why He gave us the Bible...of course if you don't open it, you can't hear Him...
Click to expand...

So the all powerful god depends on human written words to communicate with us? He can only reach those where a bible is available. How did early Christian’s know what god said before the Bible was even written?
 
ataraxia said:
Yes. And the power of being able to do that has not been lost on wily priests and politicians, around the world and throughout the ages. A good example of exploiting that for political power today is the Islamic Republic of Iran. Such claims are indeed a very powerful tool of social exploitation and power. It's no wonder then that the founding fathers of this country were so eager to get religion out of politics.

"During almost fifteen centuries has the legal establishment of Christianity been on trial. What have been its fruits? More or less in all places, pride and indolence in the Clergy, ignorance and servility in the laity, in both, superstition, bigotry and persecution...In some instances they have been seen to erect a spiritual tyranny on the ruins of the Civil authority; in many instances they have been seen upholding the thrones of political tyranny: in no instance have they been seen the guardians of the liberties of the people. Rulers who wished to subvert the public liberty, may have found an established Clergy convenient auxiliaries. A just Government instituted to secure & perpetuate it needs them not.”
-James Madison

"Mingling religion with politics may be disavowed and reprobated by every inhabitant of America….As an engine of power it serves the purpose of despotism; and as a means of wealth, the avarice of priests; but so far as respects the good of man in general, it leads to nothing here or hereafter.”
_Thomas Paine

"All National institutions of churches, whether Jewish, Christian, or Turkish (Muslim), appear to me no other than human inventions, set up to terrify and enslave mankind, and monopolize power and profit."
-Thomas Paine

"History, I believe, furnishes no example of a priest-ridden people maintaining a free civil government. This marks the lowest grade of ignorance of which their civil as well as religious leaders will always avail themselves for their own purposes."
-Thomas Jefferson to Alexander von Humboldt, Dec. 6, 1813.

View attachment 67471535View attachment 67471537
Click to expand...
Great pics! Two grifters.
 
Mulefoot said:
As God is posited by monotheistic religions exists necessarily outside of science, wouldn't logic dictate that science would the worst way to determine the truth of that claim?
Click to expand...

Then how can claims about God be determined to be true or false?
 
Mulefoot said:
As God is posited by monotheistic religions exists necessarily outside of science, wouldn't logic dictate that science would the worst way to determine the truth of that claim?
Click to expand...

Except that those religions don’t posit that god necessarily exists outside of science.
 
Mulefoot said:
It wasn't science vs "faith"- whatever faith here means. It was properly Galileo vs the Aristotelianism, a general secular philosophy of which the roman catholic church belonged.

Obviously, I don't agree that the roman catholic church at any point in history as some sort of proxy for "faith".
Click to expand...

RCC is no worse than any other religion. They are all selling snake oil.
 
Daisy said:
Not weird at all...even the apostles, who were right there with Jesus, had expectations that were proven wrong because they did not fully understand at the time...
Click to expand...
What's weird is thinking that anyone -- with or without God's help -- can foretell the future.
 
watsup said:
RCC is no worse than any other religion. They are all selling snake oil.
Click to expand...
Uh, yeah it was. We learned the problem with theocracies from their example.
 
Mulefoot said:
Uh, yeah it was. We learned the problem with theocracies from their example.
Click to expand...

Catholic-hater. That’s the best way to describe you. The RCC is no better and NO WORSE than any other religion
 
watsup said:
And anybody can give it any traits that they want. That’s the beauty of it. It’s all DEFINITION, AND how can anyone disprove nothing more than definition. They can’t.
Click to expand...
That's a pretty good summation of the situation, I think.
 
watsup said:
Catholic-hater. That’s the best way to describe you. The RCC is no better and NO WORSE than any other religion
Click to expand...
The catholic church (not the Lutherans, the Methodists or even the Baptists) has been an unholy terror for most of its existence.

Instead of name-calling, educate yourself.

Abuse in the Church

churchandstate.org.uk churchandstate.org.uk
 
Mulefoot said:
It wasn't science vs "faith"- whatever faith here means. It was properly Galileo vs the Aristotelianism, a general secular philosophy of which the roman catholic church belonged.
Click to expand...

The earth-centric view of the universe was grounded in scripture (eg, “Thou hast fixed the Earth immovable in the sky” -Psalms) and the positions held by both Catholic and protestant sects until science showed it to be wrong. So then they learned to “properly interpret” scripture to have it match up with the more current scientific observations. It took a while though. The Catholic Church only accepted the Earth-centric view of the universe about 200 years later in the 1800s. They only forgave Galileo for his heresy in the 1990s!

But at least the RCC was more open to evolutionary biology. Many of the Protestant sects in this country are still having significant difficulty with it even after over a century and a half.
Mulefoot said:
Obviously, I don't agree that the roman catholic church at any point in history as some sort of proxy for "faith".
Click to expand...
Everyone thinks their particular faith is right, and everyone else is wrong. The fact that this supposed faculty of faith leads everyone to see their own cultures and latest personal opinions rather than anything new seems to suggest that rather than being a sense to see outside reality, it seems to act more as a mirror, showing us ourselves, whom we then mistake for seeing truth or God himself. But that’s not God or the truth you’re seeing in it. It’s just ourselves and our latest cultural biases and personal opinions (“mirror, mirror, on the wall, who’s the fairest of them all?”).

"Intellectually, religious emotions are not creative but conservative. They attach themselves readily to the current view of the world and consecrate it. They steep and dye intellectual fabrics in the seething vat of emotions; they do not form their warp and woof. There is not, I think, an instance of any large idea about the world being independently generated by religion."
-John Dewey
 
ataraxia said:
The earth-centric view of the universe was grounded in scripture (eg, “Thou hast fixed the Earth immovable in the sky” -Psalms) and the positions held by both Catholic and protestant sects until science showed it to be wrong. So then they learned to “properly interpret” scripture to have it match up with the more current scientific observations. It took a while though. The Catholic Church only accepted the Earth-centric view of the universe about 200 years later in the 1800s. They only forgave Galileo for his heresy in the 1990s!
Click to expand...

The earth also is fixed and immovable in relation to us. There has never been a single day in which we had no place to stand, because the earth unfixed itself and moved itself out from under our feet.

The earth has always been fixed and immovable, both in relation to us and in relation to its orbit around the sun. In fact we've learned to take it for granted that the sun will shine during the day and that there will ground for us to stand on when we awake in the morning.
ataraxia said:
But at least the RCC was more open to evolutionary biology. Many of the Protestant sects in this country are still having significant difficulty with it even after over a century and a half.

Everyone thinks their particular faith is right, and everyone else is wrong. The fact that this supposed faculty of faith leads everyone to see their own cultures and latest personal opinions rather than anything new seems to suggest that rather than being a sense to see outside reality, it seems to act more as a mirror, showing us ourselves, whom we then mistake for seeing truth or God himself. But that’s not God or the truth you’re seeing in it. It’s just ourselves and our latest cultural biases and personal opinions (“mirror, mirror, on the wall, who’s the fairest of them all?”).

"Intellectually, religious emotions are not creative but conservative. They attach themselves readily to the current view of the world and consecrate it. They steep and dye intellectual fabrics in the seething vat of emotions; they do not form their warp and woof. There is not, I think, an instance of any large idea about the world being independently generated by religion."
-John Dewey
Click to expand...
 
Revelation said:
The earth also is fixed and immovable in relation to us. There has never been a single day in which we had no place to stand, because the earth unfixed itself and moved itself out from under our feet.


The earth has always been fixed and immovable, both in relation to us and in relation to its orbit around the sun. In fact we've learned to take it for granted that the sun will shine during the day and that there will ground for us to stand on when we awake in the morning.
Click to expand...
OK now this is funny!😊👍

Now do flat Earth, or Earth is only 6000 years old! Those are good ones too!
 
It seems to me that Trumpers should qualify as a religion….zealous as they are. Wonder where they would place on the intelligence scale ?
 
ataraxia said:
OK now this is funny!😊👍

Now do flat Earth, or Earth is only 6000 years old! Those are good ones too!
Click to expand...

Gordy327 said:
I already did:

Creationism vs Flat Earth
Click to expand...

IMHO flat earth and Evolution are both the same thing: irrational beliefs not backed up by any scientific or logical knowledge that satisfies me.

creationism does fit, and it has two basic theories. the one i tend to hold to is the Gap Theory, although i am not dogmatic on this; many believe that Genesis 1 shows 2 creations because God would not create a world that was void and without form.

so what happened in the Gap Theory?

perhaps when Lucifer was thrown out of heaven he destroyed the earth and it was void and without form, so God re-created it in Genesis 1. seems to fit what many see concerning the age of the earth et al. but i have no issues with Young Earth Creationism and see that as the other possibility.

there are issues with both theories and i may take a harder look at both of them as i find some interest. it is good enuf to believe that God created our present earth in 6 actual days and have faith that God wants us all to join him by Faith and holiness in our forever heavenly home.

it kinda is that simple for me, YMMV.

be blessed, eternally. today is the day of Salvation for all who believe.
 
watsup said:
This is a follow up to the Pew poll in another thread that has shown that the less educated tend to become Evangelicals. As it turns out, other studies have shown that atheists tend to score higher on IQ tests than the religious. Here is a discussion:

“Atheists are probably more intelligent than religious people because they benefit from many social conditions that happen to be correlated with loss of religious belief.

When one looks at this phenomenon from the point of view of comparisons between countries, it is not hard to figure out possible reasons that more intelligent countries have more atheists as Richard Lynn (2009) reported.

Here are some. Highly religious countries (Barber, 2012):

  • Are poorer.
  • They are less urbanized.
  • Have lower levels of education.
  • They have less exposure to electronic media that increase intelligence (Barber, 2006).
  • Experience a heavier load of infectious diseases that impair brain function.
  • Suffer more from low birth weights.
  • Have worse child nutrition.
  • Do a poor job of controlling environmental pollutants such as lead that reduce IQ.

Given that each of these factors are recognized causes of low IQ scores (Barber 2005), there is little mystery about why religious countries score lower on IQ tests. Of course, the same phenomena are relevant to comparisons within a country, although within-country differences in these factors are generally smaller. Even so, the wealthier individuals in a country experience life differently than the poorer ones, developing higher IQ scores and greater religious skepticism.”

www.psychologytoday.com

The Real Reason Atheists Have Higher IQs

www.psychologytoday.com www.psychologytoday.com

There are other studies that show atheists to be generally more intelligent than religionists, and I will post them as I have time.
Click to expand...
When you get this desperate to show how much smarter you are than others, youve just proven you are not. Atheism is not a measure of intelligence. Period.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom