Atheists are Bashing God

[Logician Man]

That is something I've seen and heard 'some' theists state both here and in real life. Here's my thoughts on this claim. Since Atheists don't believe in God(s), it is impossible to hate something one does not believe in. I'm only speaking for myself, but when I may come across to theists as "Bashing God" ( or hating on God(s), what I'm actually doing is questioning some of the things written in a holy text by ancients attributed to the biblical God. Things like trying to rectify the Biblical claims of being a "fair and just" God with killing a bunch of babies because of a feud with a Pharaoh. That is not fair and just in atheist world. Why not? Because the ends doesn't justify the means. I do understand the theist view on this type of issue, and the reasons as to why it is acceptable to theists, and the defense of the deed. Anyway, I think the claim Atheists hate God(s) is summarily dismissed for the reason stated above. I think it's more accurate to say Atheists are questioning the Biblical God's 'Injustices', as has been attributed to this God by the Bible writers. What are your thoughts as to whether Atheists are actually hating on, or Bashing the Biblical God? Are Atheists really 'bashing' a GOD, or acts attributed to a God by mere mortals?

 

[MikePrime]

That is something I've seen and heard 'some' theists state both here and in real life. Here's my thoughts on this claim. Since Atheists don't believe in God(s), it is impossible to hate something one does not believe in. I'm only speaking for myself, but when I may come across to theists as "Bashing God" ( or hating on God(s), what I'm actually doing is questioning some of the things written in a holy text by ancients attributed to the biblical God. Things like trying to rectify the Biblical claims of being a "fair and just" God with killing a bunch of babies because of a feud with a Pharaoh. That is not fair and just in atheist world. Why not? Because the ends doesn't justify the means. I do understand the theist view on this type of issue, and the reasons as to why it is acceptable to theists, and the defense of the deed. Anyway, I think the claim Atheists hate God(s) is summarily dismissed for the reason stated above. I think it's more accurate to say Atheists are questioning the Biblical God's 'Injustices', as has been attributed to this God by the Bible writers. What are your thoughts as to whether Atheists are actually hating on, or Bashing the Biblical God? Are Atheists really 'bashing' a GOD, or acts attributed to a God by mere mortals?

It seems a lot of atheist seem to not agree with religion on the basis of biblical text. I don't think there is a vast amount of people in Judaism or Christianity that believe that the actions of genocides and slavery in the bible are good and they are most obviously written by man centuries later. Atheist are more focused on biblical text than actual theists. The focus of religion is more so the understanding of the nature of the human condition and the ways in which we can deals with the discomforts that come with it.

As for the idea of God. I will say that I wear a cross on my chest everyday but I don't necessarily believe in the church idea of what God is, though I do think its very plausible we have a creator.

I would just like to point out that that is no real rational evidence to say whether or not there is a creator. At this point in time we really don't know. You can criticize theist for the idea of a creator but you have no proof that there is none.

 

[Logician Man]

It seems a lot of atheist seem to not agree with religion on the basis of biblical text. I don't think there is a vast amount of people in Judaism or Christianity that believe that the actions of genocides and slavery in the bible are good and they are most obviously written by man centuries later. Atheist are more focused on biblical text than actual theists. The focus of religion is more so the understanding of the nature of the human condition and the ways in which we can deals with the discomforts that come with it.

As for the idea of God. I will say that I wear a cross on my chest everyday but I don't necessarily believe in the church idea of what God is, though I do think its very plausible we have a creator.

I would just like to point out that that is no real rational evidence to say whether or not there is a creator. At this point in time we really don't know. You can criticize theist for the idea of a creator but you have no proof that there is none.

Excellent post Mike. Just for clarification purposes, and again, I'm only speaking for myself, I try not to criticize the theist, I'm just in disagreement with those theists who claim "Atheists are Bashing the Christian God." And I am in total agreement with you that there is no "proof" any God(s) do not exist. The part of your post I find most interesting is where you state "Atheists are more focused on biblical text than actual theists". I sense there are some theists that will disagree with that declaration. We shall see, hopefully.

 

[MikePrime]

Excellent post Mike. Just for clarification purposes, and again, I'm only speaking for myself, I try not to criticize the theist, I'm just in disagreement with those theists who claim "Atheists are Bashing the Christian God." And I am in total agreement with you that there is no "proof" any God(s) do not exist. The part of your post I find most interesting is where you state "Atheists are more focused on biblical text than actual theists". I sense there are some theists that will disagree with that declaration. We shall see, hopefully.

Nice to see someone you disagree with but can at least be respectable with and agree on common things. I think I should clarify what I mean by "Atheists are more focused on biblical text than actual theists".
I mean that they aren't as concerned with the biblical narrative and patriarchal stories that include dramatization and fantasy and that atheist seem to be focused on the such things as the parting of the sea or the Garden of Eden as things that disprove religion. Theist do care about the biblical text obviously but in the sense of what it means for the state of man and his relationship to god and other humans.
an example might be that a theist might read the the Garden of Eden story and take that humans are self aware creatures that do understand the difference between good and evil and it will be the cause of a lot of their sufferings. Theist also take that humans are prone to do bad, selfish things because we can discern them and choose for ourselves. An atheist will usually go "wow this story is complete medieval fantasy rubbish about how man used to live in a Garden with a snake and God, cant believe people buy this".

 

[Logician Man]

Nice to see someone you disagree with but can at least be respectable with and agree on common things. I think I should clarify what I mean by "Atheists are more focused on biblical text than actual theists".
I mean that they aren't as concerned with the biblical narrative and patriarchal stories that include dramatization and fantasy and that atheist seem to be focused on the such things as the parting of the sea or the Garden of Eden as things that disprove religion. Theist do care about the biblical text obviously but in the sense of what it means for the state of man and his relationship to god and other humans.
an example might be that a theist might read the the Garden of Eden story and take that humans are self aware creatures that do understand the difference between good and evil and it will be the cause of a lot of their sufferings. Theist also take that humans are prone to do bad, selfish things because we can discern them and choose for ourselves. An atheist will usually go "wow this story is complete medieval fantasy rubbish about how man used to live in a Garden with a snake and God, cant believe people buy this".

Well, I'm older than Methuzala, Mike. Can't say there wasn't a time when I didn't bash religion/religious doctrine, and to a much lesser degree, 'some' theists, at times. Looking back, I now realize that was a reactionary thing from being told repeatedly that I was going to eternal hellfire/damnation merely because I didn't believe a certain way. It gets kinda old and insulting. Once I got past that phase, and realized it doesn't matter what theists say/think about the whole salvation/heaven/hell stuff to me personally, now my stated view is "I'm not out to try convince anyone to believe as I do, nor to try to convince anyone to renounce their religious beliefs. And anyone that derives peace and solace from those personal religious beliefs, I consider that to be a good thing, provided those personal beliefs are not being forced into our public schools/institutions, or is otherwise harmful to those with differing views on matters of religion."

 

[Dragonfly]

This is quite simple really.

There are SOME theists who just can’t handle the idea that many people won’t believe the exact same crap they believe. So rather than be mature about it, they make up ridiculous nonsense about those other people.

For SOME, it’s easier to mock those who think differently, than to just accept that people think differently.

 

[XDU]

That is something I've seen and heard 'some' theists state both here and in real life. Here's my thoughts on this claim. Since Atheists don't believe in God(s), it is impossible to hate something one does not believe in. I'm only speaking for myself, but when I may come across to theists as "Bashing God" ( or hating on God(s), what I'm actually doing is questioning some of the things written in a holy text by ancients attributed to the biblical God. Things like trying to rectify the Biblical claims of being a "fair and just" God with killing a bunch of babies because of a feud with a Pharaoh. That is not fair and just in atheist world. Why not? Because the ends doesn't justify the means. I do understand the theist view on this type of issue, and the reasons as to why it is acceptable to theists, and the defense of the deed. Anyway, I think the claim Atheists hate God(s) is summarily dismissed for the reason stated above. I think it's more accurate to say Atheists are questioning the Biblical God's 'Injustices', as has been attributed to this God by the Bible writers. What are your thoughts as to whether Atheists are actually hating on, or Bashing the Biblical God? Are Atheists really 'bashing' a GOD, or acts attributed to a God by mere mortals?

The real issue isn't about atheists bashing God.

If you took God out of the equation, the most outspoken atheists would still appeal to emotivist, relativist, and nihilist pragmatism.

Their gripe isn't with God. It's with exercising self-control, honoring self-respect, upholding self-defense, and considering self-discipline.

They just like hurting people and getting away with it. Yes, there are moral atheists, but they never ridicule others among their own.

This is the real reason they appeal to evidence so much. It isn't about getting a proof of God. It's about hurting others when nobody's watching as well as framing others who did what they didn't really do.

They just love drama - plain and simple.

 

[watsup]

So many many lies about atheists.

 

[XDU]

So many many lies about atheists.

Honestly not sure about that.

Once in a blue moon, you encounter a decent atheist, but they're very rare and don't make an effort to debate against their own. It's not like how religious people will argue among their own to discern the real light and the way.

If anything, that proves why people should have to believe in God - there's a social problem at hand over common courtesy which atheism doesn't address. It exposes people to getting hurt by others just because they don't care.

Don't get me wrong. I'm not saying religion by itself will automatically solve these problems, but it's a necessary albeit insufficient condition to solve them. I'm very well aware of how much corruption exists within churches. Running away from that corruption by oversimplifying it down to "FAitH iS stUPiD" won't solve that corruption.

 

[watsup]

Honestly not sure about that.

Once in a blue moon, you encounter a decent atheist, but they're very rare and don't make an effort to debate against their own. It's not like how religious people will argue among their own to discern the real light and the way.

If anything, that proves why people should have to believe in God - there's a social problem at hand over common courtesy which atheism doesn't address. It exposes people to getting hurt by others just because they don't care.

Don't get me wrong. I'm not saying religion by itself will automatically solve these problems, but it's a necessary albeit insufficient condition to solve them. I'm very well aware of how much corruption exists within churches. Running away from that corruption by oversimplifying it down to "FAitH iS stUPiD" won't solve that corruption.

Whatever. Your post #7 was chock full of hateful and inaccurate lies about atheists.

 

[OrphanSlug]

It is not necessarily "atheists bashing God" but more atheists questioning such conviction and faith to bronze age concepts.

There is also a bit of hypocrisy, and frankly lack of honesty, in how some (not all, but some) conduct themselves in defending whichever religion they subscribe to. Some can have a reasonable conversation about this whereas others are just as bash and run oriented as some atheists (agnostics) can be. I will fully admit fighting fire with fire every so often based on the nature of the responses in this area of the forums. The whole idea of "decent atheists" concluding not so decent atheists is just as disingenuous as decent theists against not so decide theists.

But honestly what we are all dancing around with this concept of judging who is and who is not so nice within the opposition is the ultimate rub between theists and atheists (agnostics.)

And that would be the means, purpose, and intentions of systems of belief going up against the means, purpose, and intentions of systems of process.

Because it is inherently adversarial it is not surprising to anyone to see such spirited debates in this area, there really is no bridge between believing in God or Gods against not believing in God or Gods.

Fundamentally in how we think, consider our positions across a number of subjects, matters of everything from philosophy to politics and everywhere in between, what have you is greatly influenced by the raw consideration of God or Gods.

Now there is plenty of room for atheists to question any and all religions, and there is plenty of room for any subscriber of any religion to question how someone cannot believe in a God or Gods.

Welcome to Beliefs and Skepticism, but quit pretending one side is acting in a manner that is more reasonable or nicer in their discourse than the other. Go look across this area of the forums and even if you have agreement with those posters there is no clear standard holding theists in better attitude or engagement towards their opposition than atheists (agnostics) do.

Unsure if it is persecution syndrome, self issued sense of superiority, or just lying to yourselves but this area is filled to the brim with anything but niceties and it is foolish for theists to point the finger at atheists (agnostics.)

 

[watsup]

To begin to dispel the lies about atheists swapped among the “believers” in the first few posts of this thread, let’s first take a look at an accurate definition of atheism. The one that I prefer is that atheism is a “rejection of the belief in God”. Another acceptable one is that it is rejection of the concept of a God or gods. To simply say that an atheist “does not believe in God” is an INACCURATE definition because it implies that there is a God to “believe in” in the first place.
As such, the true atheist SIMPLY DOESN’T CARE about the Bible (or any “holy” book) in the first place other than to consider it a book of fables and myths. Yes, atheists sometimes engage in debates about, for instance, the wrath and fury of the Old Testament God in “his” cruelty towards certain human beings, but that is done as more of a diversion in order to show the basic problems of doctrine of, in that case, the Christian religion. I personally don’t spend much time in that regard because time it falls into the category of “been there, done that”.
That said, it is indeed true that some atheists spend time in this forum because it s defined as the Belief and SKEPTICISM forum and, as such, is an appropriate place to debate such.
What atheists normally do not do is to go door to door, as some religions do, in order to “present the word of Christ” to the residents therein, or to hang pamphlets on doorknobs inviting people to “services” at Easter and other times. Truth is, in opposition to the LIES that atheists are into “hurting people” and “into drama”, I would be willing to bet that you simply don’t know which of your acquaintances are atheists because they (we) mostly keep it to ourselves so as not to offend those who do want to “believe” in this free society. Other than in forums like this, of course, where we can freely express our opinions in anonymity and without personal enmity from those whom we meet in real life.

 

[Daisy]

it’s easier to mock those who think differently, than to just accept that people think differently.

lol...you broke it...

 

[Manc Skipper]

If you need religion to be a good person, then maybe you're not a good person.

 

[soylentgreen]

Let's not knock mockery and humiliating of some theists as an effective tool to fight the propaganda of their religion. Especially when we come across some theist who is so fanatical in their beliefs that they take it so seriously they have no defense against being mocked.
Lampooning has been an effective method of dealing with fanatics in religion and politics for a long time because it does work.

 

[Noodlegawd]

It seems a lot of atheist seem to not agree with religion on the basis of biblical text. I don't think there is a vast amount of people in Judaism or Christianity that believe that the actions of genocides and slavery in the bible are good and they are most obviously written by man centuries later. Atheist are more focused on biblical text than actual theists. The focus of religion is more so the understanding of the nature of the human condition and the ways in which we can deals with the discomforts that come with it.

As for the idea of God. I will say that I wear a cross on my chest everyday but I don't necessarily believe in the church idea of what God is, though I do think its very plausible we have a creator.

I would just like to point out that that is no real rational evidence to say whether or not there is a creator. At this point in time we really don't know. You can criticize theist for the idea of a creator but you have no proof that there is none.

If all, or even most, Christians believed like you do, I don't think there'd be much discussion about the topic.

 

[HonestJoe]

Once in a blue moon, you encounter a decent atheist, but they're very rare...

I'm sure you encounter decent atheists all the time in your day-to-day life. You just don't realise they're atheist because, 99% of the time, it is entirely irrelevant.

 

[LittleNipper]

Nice to see someone you disagree with but can at least be respectable with and agree on common things. I think I should clarify what I mean by "Atheists are more focused on biblical text than actual theists".
I mean that they aren't as concerned with the biblical narrative and patriarchal stories that include dramatization and fantasy and that atheist seem to be focused on the such things as the parting of the sea or the Garden of Eden as things that disprove religion. Theist do care about the biblical text obviously but in the sense of what it means for the state of man and his relationship to god and other humans.
an example might be that a theist might read the the Garden of Eden story and take that humans are self aware creatures that do understand the difference between good and evil and it will be the cause of a lot of their sufferings. Theist also take that humans are prone to do bad, selfish things because we can discern them and choose for ourselves. An atheist will usually go "wow this story is complete medieval fantasy rubbish about how man used to live in a Garden with a snake and God, cant believe people buy this".

I don't wish to contradict you; however, GOD is the Creator. And when HE denotes people living evil lives to the point of harming other groups of people and even their own children ----I totally feel that as the CREATOR, GOD has every right to bring about the destruction of such people, cities , etc... We don't know if humans and animals were able to communicate as a common practice. Eve certainly doesn't seem to indicate that she is surprised that the serpent could communicate. We certainly seem to have enough trouble communicating with each other. Obviously, sin brought about changes after the FALL of man. But I know when my cat wants food and wants me to pet him and hold him, but I understand that isn't verbal.

 

[LittleNipper]

Let's not knock mockery and humiliating of some theists as an effective tool to fight the propaganda of their religion. Especially when we come across some theist who is so fanatical in their beliefs that they take it so seriously they have no defense against being mocked.
Lampooning has been an effective method of dealing with fanatics in religion and politics for a long time because it does work.

Such an opinion does go both ways...

 

[MikePrime]

I don't wish to contradict you; however, GOD is the Creator. And when HE denotes people living evil lives to the point of harming other groups of people and even their own children ----I totally feel that as the CREATOR, GOD has every right to bring about the destruction of such people, cities , etc... We don't know if humans and animals were able to communicate as a common practice. Eve certainly doesn't seem to indicate that she is surprised that the serpent could communicate. We certainly seem to have enough trouble communicating with each other. Obviously, sin brought about changes after the FALL of man. But I know when my cat wants food and wants me to pet him and hold him, but I understand that isn't verbal.

I understand that God is the creator.
As far as you second sentence goes, I wear a cross on my chest but even I wouldn't sat that it is "right" for God to destroy cities and peoples. The idea that the entirety of the city such as Gomorrah is evil is hyperbolic and a foolish black and white medieval thinking. That likes saying all Germans deserve to be destroyed because some voted for the Nazi party. You can't tell me that there wasn't one innocent child, man or women that didn't deserve death in a sweeping generalization of a city or civilization.
If you want to talk in rational terms of course He has the right to destroy what He created but it doesn't make it right in the eyes of His created.

We can believe in God and Judeo-Christian values without subscribing to certain text that is clearly about the justification of a regional kingdom in the middle east.

 

[Argent]

What are your thoughts as to whether Atheists are actually hating on, or Bashing the Biblical God? Are Atheists really 'bashing' a GOD, or acts attributed to a God by mere mortals?

It is all a god represents, the entirety of religion, that I dislike and the way zealous adherents to religion use their religious books -- be it bible or quran or torah or other -- to infiltrate and influence secular life, particularly government policies. It is a false notion that one can't be honest, moral, ethical unless one believes in a god. The hypocrisy, hate, and evil perpetuated by religious cults through interpretation of their religious books is heinous.

 

[Dragonfly]

So many many lies about atheists.

I’m sure their “god” is just fine with such practices.

 

[Daisy]

The fact that Jehovah will not destroy anyone who is undeserving is verified in His conversation with Abraham regarding the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah...Abraham begins with asking God if there are 50 righteous men, will he spare the cities...God agrees that He will spare the cities for 50 righteous men...Abraham continues to ask God about 45 righteous men, then 40, then 30, then 20, then 10...Jehovah answers with “I will not destroy it for the sake of the ten"...He was willing to spare the cities for the sake of only 10 righteous men...there were none...Genesis 18:22-33...

 

[Logician Man]

The fact that Jehovah will not destroy anyone who is undeserving is verified in His conversation with Abraham regarding the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah...Abraham begins with asking God if there are 50 righteous men, will he spare the cities...God agrees that He will spare the cities for 50 righteous men...Abraham continues to ask God about 45 righteous men, then 40, then 30, then 20, then 10...Jehovah answers with “I will not destroy it for the sake of the ten"...He was willing to spare the cities for the sake of only 10 righteous men...there were none...Genesis 18:22-33...

Too bad Abraham didn't ask God to spare the cities if there were 50 innocent newborns in the cities.

 

[MikePrime]

The fact that Jehovah will not destroy anyone who is undeserving is verified in His conversation with Abraham regarding the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah...Abraham begins with asking God if there are 50 righteous men, will he spare the cities...God agrees that He will spare the cities for 50 righteous men...Abraham continues to ask God about 45 righteous men, then 40, then 30, then 20, then 10...Jehovah answers with “I will not destroy it for the sake of the ten"...He was willing to spare the cities for the sake of only 10 righteous men...there were none...Genesis 18:22-33...

That's actually a good point and one the most interesting parts of the old testament in when some of the patriarchs question God. It does do a job at moralizing God that he wouldn't kill innocent people, though it is under the presumption that the city actually had no righteous men. My 2022 brain tells me that's virtually impossible.