Atheist Self Identification

[Cephus]

As a Christian I'm glad someone on the "other side" can see that. I'm not anti atheism. Why does someone have to be "anti theist?" Seems to be the same thing to me: bigotry for the sake of wanting to "belong."

Pretty much nobody is anti-theist. They are anti-theism. They see religion as being a problem, not believers. But believers, by and large, cannot stop identifying with their religion, if someone insults the thing they believe, they see it as a personal insult against themselves and that's just not the case. Christianity is stupid. That doesn't mean that Christians necessarily are. Those who refuse to see the difference have problems.

 

[blackjack50]

Pretty much nobody is anti-theist. They are anti-theism. They see religion as being a problem, not believers. But believers, by and large, cannot stop identifying with their religion, if someone insults the thing they believe, they see it as a personal insult against themselves and that's just not the case. Christianity is stupid. That doesn't mean that Christians necessarily are. Those who refuse to see the difference have problems.

That remark makes 0 sense. Of course it is insulting when you call something I believe in "stupid." If I were to start calling atheism stupid...I'm betting you would freak out. And you probably won't accept the whole "I didn't call you stupid, just something you believe with every fiber of your being, and something that has played a pivotal role in your life, stupid."

I have pretty much lost hope in trying to get through to you that such comments are asinine and rude. I doubt your argument wild hold much weight anywhere other than in the most militant anti THEIST circles.

 

[Manc Skipper]

That remark makes 0 sense. Of course it is insulting when you call something I believe in "stupid." If I were to start calling atheism stupid...I'm betting you would freak out. And you probably won't accept the whole "I didn't call you stupid, just something you believe with every fiber of your being, and something that has played a pivotal role in your life, stupid."

I have pretty much lost hope in trying to get through to you that such comments are asinine and rude. I doubt your argument wild hold much weight anywhere other than in the most militant anti THEIST circles.

It works the same as hate the sin, not the sinner does....

 

[blackjack50]

It works the same as hate the sin, not the sinner does....

No. Not even remotely. Maybe when you are talking about homosexuality. But not when you are talking about murder, theft, and other sins. One is mainly about forgiveness. The other is about hatred because you disapprove of the way someone else thinks.

 

[Cephus]

That remark makes 0 sense. Of course it is insulting when you call something I believe in "stupid." If I were to start calling atheism stupid...I'm betting you would freak out. And you probably won't accept the whole "I didn't call you stupid, just something you believe with every fiber of your being, and something that has played a pivotal role in your life, stupid."

Nope, wouldn't care. Feel free. But I don't self-identify with atheism so I don't take it personally.

I have pretty much lost hope in trying to get through to you that such comments are asinine and rude. I doubt your argument wild hold much weight anywhere other than in the most militant anti THEIST circles.

I don't care if they're rude. Nobody can offend you but you. Offense can never be given, it can only be taken. If you're taking offense at something, look no further than the nearest mirror. It just tells me you're being far too emotional and not remotely rational.

 

[Cyrylek]

What atheism means to me is a lack of belief in supernatural beings or god(s) due to a lack of credible evidence that supports their existence.

Exactly.

The fanatical belief in non-existence of god(s), Soviet style, is not atheism. It is a mental disorder.

 

[Manc Skipper]

No. Not even remotely. Maybe when you are talking about homosexuality. But not when you are talking about murder, theft, and other sins. One is mainly about forgiveness. The other is about hatred because you disapprove of the way someone else thinks.

It's the same. He's hating on what is done by the individual, not the person.

 

[Darrell]

As a Christian I'm glad someone on the "other side" can see that. I'm not anti atheism. Why does someone have to be "anti theist?" Seems to be the same thing to me: bigotry for the sake of wanting to "belong."

Being an Atheist has become almost a fad (like being a Vegan). I could honestly careless what people believe as individuals.

Sent from my SM-G930P using Tapatalk

 

[blackjack50]

Nope, wouldn't care. Feel free. But I don't self-identify with atheism so I don't take it personally.



I don't care if they're rude. Nobody can offend you but you. Offense can never be given, it can only be taken. If you're taking offense at something, look no further than the nearest mirror. It just tells me you're being far too emotional and not remotely rational.

Lol. Buddy. Pumpkin. You can't "offend me." Observing that a common statement made by you is rude...does not require me to be offended (upset, annoyed, resentful). It is observing that you have no respect for others feelings/beliefs. And here is the kicker on this: you can disagree with their beliefs and feelings...even vehemently...without being rude. That statement you made was ironically: completely irrational.

So my statement stands: I have given up on trying to convince you to be more polite/respectful/not rude. It is a losing battle. Why? Because you are offended by Christianity. So you can take a look in the mirror and tell me why it is you feel the need to show disrespect to towards the beliefs of others, or not. I don't really care. I'm just observing the irony of your statements. Observing that it is possible to be an irrational atheist. And that is usually based on irrational hatred of religion or the religious. You know...the anti theists.

 

[blackjack50]

Being an Atheist has become almost a fad (like being a Vegan). I could honestly careless what people believe as individuals.

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True dat. So very true. My blame is 2 fold. Moronic republican candidates trying to appeal to the "evangelical" crowd on the fringe far right (as if they would vote for a democrat), and democrats who took up the banner of atheism (anti theism) to fight that and get the "gay vote."

I freaking hate talking to college liberals in my town. They always seem shocked that, I, as a conservative right wing republican Christian, couldn't give 2 ****s about gay marriage, gays, or burning crosses on the lawn of blacks. But that is all left wing propaganda to try and create bias against Christians. Most of us are normal rational folk who believe in God. We are all sinners after all. I feel like 90% of the fuss has to do with that.

And my guess is that most atheists couldn't give 2 ****s about my beliefs or gay marriage or whatever and just live their life sans religion.

 

[blackjack50]

It's the same. He's hating on what is done by the individual, not the person.

No. It isn't. It is a superiority (inferiority?) complex based on irrational hatred of the beliefs of these people. Why else would he feel the need to insult it in every other post? Furthermore...he insults people for believing in it.

You can pretend what he does isn't rude, but it is. You can't walk up to someone on the street and call what they believe in "stupid" without expecting to be called an asshole. That applies here too.

 

[roughdraft274]

True dat. So very true. My blame is 2 fold. Moronic republican candidates trying to appeal to the "evangelical" crowd on the fringe far right (as if they would vote for a democrat), and democrats who took up the banner of atheism (anti theism) to fight that and get the "gay vote."

I freaking hate talking to college liberals in my town. They always seem shocked that, I, as a conservative right wing republican Christian, couldn't give 2 ****s about gay marriage, gays, or burning crosses on the lawn of blacks. But that is all left wing propaganda to try and create bias against Christians. Most of us are normal rational folk who believe in God. We are all sinners after all. I feel like 90% of the fuss has to do with that.

And my guess is that most atheists couldn't give 2 ****s about my beliefs or gay marriage or whatever and just live their life sans religion.

Most atheists aren't concerned with the "I'm Christian because it's convenient/I'm christian but don't care what the bible says" christians like yourself. Mostly they are concerned with the "no gay marriage, no gay adoption, force kids to pray in public school, use my tax dollars to promote religion etc" type of Christians.

And btw, the reasons that they are stereotyping you is that it's easy to do and it's a common things for humans to do. The same way you are stereotyping them in this very post.

 

[Cephus]

Lol. Buddy. Pumpkin. You can't "offend me." Observing that a common statement made by you is rude...does not require me to be offended (upset, annoyed, resentful). It is observing that you have no respect for others feelings/beliefs. And here is the kicker on this: you can disagree with their beliefs and feelings...even vehemently...without being rude. That statement you made was ironically: completely irrational.

There's nothing rude about my comments. They are straightforward, honest and where applicable, factually true. That you choose to have an emotional reaction to said comments is your problem, not mine. You are completely in control of your reactions. "Thems fighting words" went out as a legitimate defense a long time ago. The whole point here isn't to pat the delusional on the head, tell them it's okay and sit around singing kumbaya. The whole point is to change minds. Not change hearts, change minds. Anyone whose heart is the entire basis for their beliefs is too far gone to matter. I don't care if I offend people. Facts are facts regardless. If you go to a scientific conference and present the facts, nobody is going to get offended because those people realize that the facts are more important than their emotional comfort.

If you're really bothered by what I say, then by all means, exercise the ignore function so you don't have to see it. Go hide in a religious safe space where you don't get any of your beliefs challenged. It doesn't bother me in the least. Knock yourself out.

And yes, I do dislike Christianity, just like I dislike astrology and flat earthers and alien abduction fanatics. It isn't Christianity in particular, but irrationality that I dislike. Religion, whether you like it or not, is irrational. And nobody's beliefs just deserve respect. Respect is *EARNED* not just granted. Christianity, indeed no religion and no irrational belief, has earned that respect. I don't have to respect your beliefs. That doesn't stop you from believing it, of course.

So my statement stands: I have given up on trying to convince you to be more polite/respectful/not rude. It is a losing battle. Why? Because you are offended by Christianity. So you can take a look in the mirror and tell me why it is you feel the need to show disrespect to towards the beliefs of others, or not. I don't really care. I'm just observing the irony of your statements. Observing that it is possible to be an irrational atheist. And that is usually based on irrational hatred of religion or the religious. You know...the anti theists.[/QUOTE]

 

[Nilly]

Exactly.

The fanatical belief in non-existence of god(s), Soviet style, is not atheism. It is a mental disorder.

If it's fanatical then it's a mental disorder by definition.

However, belief in the non-existence of gods is not necessarily fanatical. Much like how belief in the non-existence of heffalumps and woozles is not fanatical.

 

[Frank Apisa]

If it's fanatical then it's a mental disorder by definition.

However, belief in the non-existence of gods is not necessarily fanatical. Much like how belief in the non-existence of heffalumps and woozles is not fanatical.

You gotta be careful with your wording.

I have it on good authority from so many atheists here...that atheists do not do "believing"...that they base their atheism JUST on the fact that they lack a "belief in a god."

Glad to see at least some people realize that a good deal of atheism...IS BELIEF.

 

[Nilly]

You gotta be careful with your wording.

I have it on good authority from so many atheists here...that atheists do not do "believing"...that they base their atheism JUST on the fact that they lack a "belief in a god."

Glad to see at least some people realize that a good deal of atheism...IS BELIEF.

Who said I'm talking about atheists. 'Atheist' can mean a lot of things. All I'm saying is that believing that something does not exist is not necessarily fanatical.

 

[Frank Apisa]

Who said I'm talking about atheists. 'Atheist' can mean a lot of things. All I'm saying is that believing that something does not exist is not necessarily fanatical.

Oh, I see.

You actually think there are people out there who "BELIEVE GODS DO NOT EXIST"...who are not ATHEISTS???

C'mon, Nilly.

Of course you are talking about ATHEISTS.

Now if you were talking about people who DO NOT HAVE A BELIEF THAT GODS EXIST (quite a different thing)...you might be talking about atheists or agnostics or...whatever.

But you weren't...

...unless as I suggested, you were not being careful with your wording.

 

[Nilly]

Oh, I see.

You actually think there are people out there who "BELIEVE GODS DO NOT EXIST"...who are not ATHEISTS???

C'mon, Nilly.

Of course you are talking about ATHEISTS.

Now if you were talking about people who DO NOT HAVE A BELIEF THAT GODS EXIST (quite a different thing)...you might be talking about atheists or agnostics or...whatever.

But you weren't...

...unless as I suggested, you were not being careful with your wording.

Actually, yeah.

Most Christians believe that the Greek and Roman gods don't exist. Most buddhists and taoists believe that no gods exist. Some atheists believe that your definition of god (a creator/multiple creators) do exist.

The term 'god' is used far too loosely to warrant a singular term (i.e. atheist) for disbelief/lack of belief in one/many/all of them.

I said what I said. Not believing in something (anything, a god, a leprechaun) is not necessarily fanatical.

 

[blackjack50]

Most atheists aren't concerned with the "I'm Christian because it's convenient/I'm christian but don't care what the bible says" christians like yourself. Mostly they are concerned with the "no gay marriage, no gay adoption, force kids to pray in public school, use my tax dollars to promote religion etc" type of Christians.

And btw, the reasons that they are stereotyping you is that it's easy to do and it's a common things for humans to do. The same way you are stereotyping them in this very post.

Sigh. Where to start?

1) Don't tell me what kind of Christian I am. That was obviously a jab and quite insulting. Why do you have to pull that cheap crap? Hm? You don't get to decide what is a "devout" Christian bud. I don't either. I am a Presbyterian. We have a different structure and belief system than baptists or evangelicals and Pentecostals (who I am sure you probably believe represent all of Christendom).

2) And I am only concerned with atheists that seek to push their non belief on others and condemn people for having faith. And the ones who misrepresent the beliefs of Christianity and try to present minor incidents here or there as big picture incidents that happen everywhere. Which leads me to:

3) Not every "college liberal" does what I mentioned. Man, even in my own church, know better. But it doesn't change that this has become increasingly popular due to mass media and the "war on Christianity" or rather just the push for gay marriage...that radicalized the idiots on both sides.

It doesn't make hate filled stereotyping ok. Nor does it make treating all of a group as if they have the same belief. It would be like saying you and I believe the same thing because we are from the America/Western Hemisphere/earth

 

[Frank Apisa]

Actually, yeah.

Most Christians believe that the Greek and Roman gods don't exist. Most buddhists and taoists believe that no gods exist. Some atheists believe that your definition of god (a creator/multiple creators) do exist.

The term 'god' is used far too loosely to warrant a singular term (i.e. atheist) for disbelief/lack of belief in one/many/all of them.

I said what I said. Not believing in something (anything, a god, a leprechaun) is not necessarily fanatical.

That is NOT what you said at all...and apparently you are unable to see the difference I am pointing out.

No problem. Keep making the mistake...it helps me when I make certain arguments to be able to quote you.

 

[Nilly]

That is NOT what you said at all...and apparently you are unable to see the difference I am pointing out.

No problem. Keep making the mistake...it helps me when I make certain arguments to be able to quote you.

Please clarify then.

I said 'belief in the non-existence of gods is not necessarily fanatical'.

Christians hold said belief in the non-existence of gods (Greek gods).
Many buddhists hold said belief in the non-existence of gods.

What's the issue?

 

[Frank Apisa]

Please clarify then.

I said 'belief in the non-existence of gods is not necessarily fanatical'.

Christians hold said belief in the non-existence of gods (Greek gods).
Taoists hold said belief in the non-existence of gods.

What's the issue?

The issue is that apparently you are unable to understand the difference (THE CONSIDERABLE DIFFERENCE) between the statements:

I do not believe gods exist...

...and...

...I believe no gods exist.

Figure out the difference...then go back to the post where I first mentioned "careful wording." And then read your responses.

 

[roughdraft274]

Sigh. Where to start?

1) Don't tell me what kind of Christian I am. That was obviously a jab and quite insulting. Why do you have to pull that cheap crap? Hm? You don't get to decide what is a "devout" Christian bud. I don't either. I am a Presbyterian. We have a different structure and belief system than baptists or evangelicals and Pentecostals (who I am sure you probably believe represent all of Christendom).

If the bible says "X" and you say you don't care about "X", then I think it's a fair statement to say that you aren't very much concerned with what the bible says. If you want to make the argument that you deeply care about the bible because you care about the bit of stuff you agree with and live by, that's fine, but what I said still stands. The only way I know how to judge whether someone gives a crap about their religion is how far they are willing to go to follow their holy books commandments.

I don't think there's any one that doubts that a muslim suicide bomber is probably more devout in his religious convictions than Mark in Idaho that's never read the bible but goes to church on Easter Sunday every year. And when I say that the suicide bomber is more devout, that's not a compliment.

 

[Nilly]

The issue is that apparently you are unable to understand the difference (THE CONSIDERABLE DIFFERENCE) between the statements:

I do not believe gods exist...

...and...

...I believe no gods exist.

Figure out the difference...then go back to the post where I first mentioned "careful wording." And then read your responses.

Please quote where I said either of those? You're arguing a strawman right now. All I'm saying is that the belief in the non-existence of gods (or a god, or object/person/entity x) is not necessarily fanatical. If I could chose, I would put that statement as closer to your second statement, but they're by no means synonymous.

Someone can believe in the existence of some gods. And believe in the non-existence of others. At the same time.

 

[Frank Apisa]

Please quote where I said either of those? You're arguing a strawman right now. All I'm saying is that the belief in the non-existence of gods (or a god, or object/person/entity x) is not necessarily fanatical. If I could chose, I would put that statement as closer to your second statement, but they're by no means synonymous.

Someone can believe in the existence of some gods. And believe in the non-existence of others. At the same time.

Get someone to explain what has been happening here, Nilly. You are out of touch with the essence of what has been said.