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ATF Fast and Furious: New documents show Attorney General Eric Holder was briefed in

Re: ATF Fast and Furious: New documents show Attorney General Eric Holder was briefed

Meanwhile police in Mexico get shot.

I find it a little odd that as the Mexican militairy takes on more of a presence in Mexico more "drug lords" shoot up the old form of control (police) and take credit for it.

Who in the hell commits a crime and then announces it to the world? (sure it can happen but I think more often than not they would want to keep it a secret)

Little weird how when there is a shift of power the cops end up being targeted. Maybe the cartels are scared of the militairy and thats the only reason why cops are being assassinated? Or maybe someone close to their government is taking out the old power.
 
Re: ATF Fast and Furious: New documents show Attorney General Eric Holder was briefed

Another, frankly far more plausible, conspiracy theory:

FARAGO: Was CIA behind Operation Fast and Furious? - Washington Times

It's not always about screwing conservatives, you know. :roll:

The idea that Obama purposely put 2,000 guns into the hands of drug lords (while purposely making them trackable) just to make some sort of attack on the 2nd Amendment is completely stupid and paranoid. It brings to mind the liberal reaction to the Tuscon shooting, which we all know conservatives were furious about.
 
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Re: ATF Fast and Furious: New documents show Attorney General Eric Holder was briefed


I've kind of been enjoying the hyperbole of some. I agree that if Holder broke the law, prejury, he should be charged. This should be true of anyone. Any crime, regardless of party or position should be held accountable to the law. Sadly that hasn't been the case for far too long.

Now, having read what we can of the memos, while I see some problems, I don't see what some of you are claiming. Only to make gun owners look bad? That's just silly. The memos show they were hoping to get prosecutions. That he wasn't involved in the day to day decisions. But he may very well have know a bit more than he let said.
 
Re: ATF Fast and Furious: New documents show Attorney General Eric Holder was briefed


If all these drug lords are in Mexico then what good does it to put traceable guns into their hands? Is the Mexican government going to say sure come on in and and make arrests? Are these drug lords going to **** a brick and surrender when they see an American law enforcement agent trying to make an arrest on Mexican soil instead of laughing their ass off and shooting that American law enforcement agent? The only thing selling weapons to drug dealers in countries do is give them extra weapons.

I do not think the government would say hey lets sell Al Queada some nukes and see if we can trace the sale of nuclear weapons on Pakistani soil. The reason they wouldn't do it because terrorist would use those weapons just like drug gangs in other countries would use firearms to kill people.
 
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Re: ATF Fast and Furious: New documents show Attorney General Eric Holder was briefed

 
Re: ATF Fast and Furious: New documents show Attorney General Eric Holder was briefed


I run hot and cold on this administration. On some days I think they are cunning radicals, on other days I think they are a bunch of stumbling morons.
 
Re: ATF Fast and Furious: New documents show Attorney General Eric Holder was briefed

conservativeguy said:
I run hot and cold on this administration. On some days I think they are cunning radicals, on other days I think they are a bunch of stumbling morons.
Click to expand...

The two are not necessarily mutually exclusive.
 
Re: ATF Fast and Furious: New documents show Attorney General Eric Holder was briefed


Part of me knows you probably right, the other part says these guys in the White House and DoJ are book smart and real world dumb. It probably sounded really good on paper but reality is, it was some real dumb **** to try... everyone at the lower levels knew it.
 
Re: ATF Fast and Furious: New documents show Attorney General Eric Holder was briefed

You'll know he's resigning as soon as he says he isn't.
 
Re: ATF Fast and Furious: New documents show Attorney General Eric Holder was briefed

Don't you people KNOW ANYTHING?:2razz:

If the story is rarely mentioned on MSNBC and liberal talk radio, that means Obama shouldn't be impeached no matter how illegal the policy was!:2razz:

After all, only 30,000 Mexicans have been killed in the drug war, after some 3000 guns delivered, whats all the fuss about?:2razz:

I thought you people were smart.
 
Re: ATF Fast and Furious: New documents show Attorney General Eric Holder was briefed

Holder should be in an orange jump suit right about now but you know this president is not going to do anything about it. Hopefully the Republican that gets elected in 2012 will pursue this until every last one of these crooks is behind bars where they deserve to be.

I dont think there has been a more crooked administration in US history, you'd think the Chicago mob was running the country. With that said I dont think many in the goverment controlled Liberal press are going to make much of this ( except CBS) and the drones will still come out in force to vote for him, although too many people have now caught on and I doubt he gets relected.
 
This is one of the fishiest of things that has happened in the wacky world of covert government ops in a long time. Yes, Holder must go, but the story is much bigger than him. The US is pretty obviously playing games with the cartels, and my personal belief is that this was a completely intentional arms transfer that somehow got out into the daylight. I bet Alex Jones and Mike Ruppert are having a field day with this one.

The real answer is to legalize pot and put the cartels out of business.
 
Re: ATF Fast and Furious: New documents show Attorney General Eric Holder was briefed

nijato said:
The real answer is to legalize pot and put the cartels out of business.
Click to expand...

Cocaine & Heroin too? I dont think so... pot is hardly the problem here.

Considering the piles of bodies & mass graves turing up down there I'd think it would be perfectly justified to start taking out these cartel leaders with drone strikes as it seems to be working fairly well against Al Qaeda whom hasnt killed as many recently as these drug lords have.
 

Pot is worth hundreds of millions of dollars a year to the cartels, and is by far their largest export. As for the coke and smack, let's decriminalize pot first then reevaluate a few years later. Doubling down on a drug war that is impossible to win is not the answer.
 
Re: ATF Fast and Furious: New documents show Attorney General Eric Holder was briefed

Actually it is a lot harder to smuggle pot across the border (because it requires alot more space) than the others and less profitable.
There is also alot of pot grown up here in and outdoors and also in Canada, so they have more competition.

I agree with you on decriminalization but not legalization.
 
Re: ATF Fast and Furious: New documents show Attorney General Eric Holder was briefed


Why limit it to Eric Holder? Obama admitted he knew aboout it, already. Honestly, any discussion about reforms and truth and justice in the USA is a farce anymore. I mean, that Meredith chick in Italy went shopping after her roomie was dead, and they just bribed their way out of it. She's as guilty as O.J.

Justice isn't blind its deaf and dumb.
 
Re: ATF Fast and Furious: New documents show Attorney General Eric Holder was briefed


Even on paper it's a dumb idea to sell or give weapons to cartel members,especially those in another country. We do not have jurisdiction in Mexico. Mexico may not mind their citizens freely going back and forth across our borders but I am pretty sure they are not going to allow American law enforcement to go back and forth to make arrests. Even if they did they won't be armed unless things have changed since this story- Obama and Mexico: We Will Not Allow U.S. Agents to Be Armed
 
Re: ATF Fast and Furious: New documents show Attorney General Eric Holder was briefed

I question the motives of the U.S. "sting operation".

Rather than trying to aid in capturing the cartels, I would bet that the government is secretly trying to control/profit from the drug running like in the Barry Seal/Contra/Air America/Panama scandals.
 
Re: ATF Fast and Furious: New documents show Attorney General Eric Holder was briefed


The only problem there is it seems that they didn't actually bother tracking them.
 
Re: ATF Fast and Furious: New documents show Attorney General Eric Holder was briefed


I'm not against legalizing pot but I'm just curious.....why would the cartels not simply expand into cocaine and other harder drugs?
 
Re: ATF Fast and Furious: New documents show Attorney General Eric Holder was briefed

1Perry said:
I'm not against legalizing pot but I'm just curious.....why would the cartels not simply expand into cocaine and other harder drugs?
Click to expand...

In my imagination harder stuff is what they would want.

Anyone who has lived in California for over a month knows that Mexican weed = stress and American weed = chronic. Legal American dispensaries and homegrown laws take care of Mexican pot traffic if you have a state license.
 
1Perry said:
I'm not against legalizing pot but I'm just curious.....why would the cartels not simply expand into cocaine and other harder drugs?
Click to expand...

I'm sure they would and currently do... but it's a much smaller market. As long as there are illegal substances, there will be people that illegaly traffic them.
 
Re: ATF Fast and Furious: New documents show Attorney General Eric Holder was briefed

an independent counsel is needed for this matter

the emails indicate ATF had a legitimate goal. trouble was, they could not shoot straight. didn't the batteries die on the transponders used to locate the guns?

but holder's sworn testimony needs to be objectively investigated. does the record support his presentation that he misunderstood the question ... a dubious claim by the nation's highest law enforcement official ... or did he actually lie to congress
neither option is indicative of someone of the caliber deserving to serve as the AG; one of those options is criminal
we need to know whether holder is simply incompetent, or a perjurer
 
Re: ATF Fast and Furious: New documents show Attorney General Eric Holder was briefed


It's a problem that might have to be looked at in different ways than in the past. This fro Mark Steyn's 'After America'
 
Re: ATF Fast and Furious: New documents show Attorney General Eric Holder was briefed

1Perry said:
I'm not against legalizing pot but I'm just curious.....why would the cartels not simply expand into cocaine and other harder drugs?
Click to expand...

I think we have to ask ourselves why any reasonable person would inject heroin into their system in the first place? Peer pressure? Depression? Is it cool? It has to be emphasized that it is not cool, but instead very stupid. Maybe a drug version of Scared Straight at the schools.

But whatever the new answers might be, we can be sure that the old ones aren't working.
 
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