At the time the 2cd Amendment was written

[PIPEWRENCH]

The Republicans are truly the blind leading the blind

So sad.

 

[Hamish Howl]

Everyone had a muzzle loading musket. An expert infantry man could fire 4 balls in a minute, if it was smooth bore. The accuracy sucked. A shot every 15 seconds sounds kind of high, but that's what the internet says.


At the shootings in Vegas where 50+ victims were shot dead and at Orlando, in that gay bar, where 50+ victims were shot dead, how different would be the outcome if the shooters were using muzzleloaders?

Doesn't matter. The 2nd is quite clear in its wording.

 

[Hamish Howl]

If you built a continuous-beam laser* that you could just hose around and whack entire crowds in the time it takes to spin around in a circle, they would still be constitutionally available.

* Not likely, but just as a thought exercise.

 

[Rich2018]

So sad.

Trouble is they're driving the bus right now until 1/20/21.

 

[PIPEWRENCH]

Trouble is they're driving the bus right now until 1/20/21.

No they are not driving the bus. That is the problem with being party blind. You can't see who is driving both parties.

 

[BahamaBob]

Yes and interestingly one was introduced in Britain, in the 1980's, by the right of center Conservative party (as the "Community Charge")
Everyone paid the same - I loved it as it reduced my local taxes significantly, especially my property tax (where I lived in my house alone, so therefore paid half of what a married couple with no kids in an identical property would pay)

The Socialist Labour party hated it and whipped up national resentment towards it and after a few years it was repealed

So I would think the Republicans would be 100% FOR a poll tax, with the Democrat party solidly against it.

More evidence that you know nothing about the Republican party.

 

[craig]

Everyone had a muzzle loading musket. An expert infantry man could fire 4 balls in a minute, if it was smooth bore. The accuracy sucked. A shot every 15 seconds sounds kind of high, but that's what the internet says.


At the shootings in Vegas where 50+ victims were shot dead and at Orlando, in that gay bar, where 50+ victims were shot dead, how different would be the outcome if the shooters were using muzzleloaders?

If you take away all cars will there be less automobile casualties? (Approximately the same number of deaths result from automobiles as firearm in the US.)
If you take away all alcohol will there be less related deaths? (Twice as many people die from alcohol as from firearms in a year in the US.)
I could go on for some time. More than half of gun related death are suicides, less than half murders and only a few murders are mass murders. There have been 163 mass murders in the US in the last 50 years. A mass murder is defined as four or more victims.

 

[craig]

If you take away all cars will there be less automobile casualties? (Approximately the same number of deaths result from automobiles as firearm in the US.)
If you take away all alcohol will there be less related deaths? (Twice as many people die from alcohol as from firearms in a year in the US.)
I could go on for some time. More than half of gun related death are suicides, less than half murders and only a few murders are mass murders. There have been 163 mass murders in the US in the last 50 years. A mass murder is defined as four or more victims.

 

[iguanaman]

You are ignoring a basic element, if you had laws making every single gun he had illegal, it wouldn't stop him as the penalties for murder are a lot higher than illegal possession of a firearm.

Hypothetical impossibility isn't a very good launching pad for a good thread either.

That shooter cared nothing about laws and penalties he was planning to kill himself after he took as many innocent victims as he could with him. If the guns he used were illegal he would have not been able to buy them at all. That is the point of banning assault weapons. To reduce the ease that insane gun freaks have on obtaining weapons that kill so many people in such a short time. I know how scandalous and wrong you must think that is but what else can we do about such a situation?

 

[iguanaman]

If you take away all cars will there be less automobile casualties? (Approximately the same number of deaths result from automobiles as firearm in the US.)
If you take away all alcohol will there be less related deaths? (Twice as many people die from alcohol as from firearms in a year in the US.)
I could go on for some time. More than half of gun related death are suicides, less than half murders and only a few murders are mass murders. There have been 163 mass murders in the US in the last 50 years. A mass murder is defined as four or more victims.

We just want weapons of mass destruction like were used in Vegas to be more strictly regulated. We don't see where the 2nd gives you a right to weaponry that can kill dozens of people a minute in the hands of a maniac who bought them all legally. Do you even see a little of what I mean?

 

[Arby]

We just want weapons of mass destruction like were used in Vegas to be more strictly regulated. We don't see where the 2nd gives you a right to weaponry that can kill dozens of people a minute in the hands of a maniac who bought them all legally. Do you even see a little of what I mean?

One idiot killed at least 168 people, including many children, and injured more than 680 others with diesel fuel and fertilizer. Should we outlaw diesel fuel and fertilizer?

 

[iguanaman]

One idiot killed at least 168 people, including many children, and injured more than 680 others with diesel fuel and fertilizer. Should we outlaw diesel fuel and fertilizer?

That depends. Are there other uses for diesel oil and fertilizer besides making bombs? Assault Rifles are designed to kill humans as quickly and efficiently as possible. That is really their only purpose. There are plenty of other guns that do legal things like hunting or target shooting better.

 

[Arby]

That depends. Are there other uses for diesel oil and fertilizer besides making bombs?

Are there other uses for sporting firearms? Of course there are! None of my (as you call them) "assault weapons" have hurt anyone while in my possession.
In fact, none in the possession of anyone I know (and millions I don't know) have used theirs in the commission of any crime.

 

[craig]

We just want weapons of mass destruction like were used in Vegas to be more strictly regulated. We don't see where the 2nd gives you a right to weaponry that can kill dozens of people a minute in the hands of a maniac who bought them all legally. Do you even see a little of what I mean?

Is it the tool in the maniacs hands that scares you? I think a maniac with a gas can and a blow torch or a chainsaw or a truck or cyanide in a water cooler are just as scary and perhaps deadlier. Read my mass murder statistics again.

 

[Arby]

Is it the tool in the maniacs hands that scares you? I think a maniac with a gas can and a blow torch or a chainsaw or a truck or cyanide in a water cooler are just as scary and perhaps deadlier. Read my mass murder statistics again.

Some people are just petrified of firearms. Scared $hitless. Yet they drive their Prius without fear.
Myself, I'm more concerned with driving to the gun range and getting hurt than I am being at the gun range.

 

[OpportunityCost]

That shooter cared nothing about laws and penalties he was planning to kill himself after he took as many innocent victims as he could with him. If the guns he used were illegal he would have not been able to buy them at all. That is the point of banning assault weapons. To reduce the ease that insane gun freaks have on obtaining weapons that kill so many people in such a short time. I know how scandalous and wrong you must think that is but what else can we do about such a situation?

Assault weapon is a bullshit term. Its a made up term by feckless lawmakers to cover their malfeasance in banning commonly used weapons they want to make sound scary to justify violating rights.

Oh, and 3 months later? wtf...

 

[Glitch]

Assault weapon is a bullshit term. Its a made up term by feckless lawmakers to cover their malfeasance in banning commonly used weapons they want to make sound scary to justify violating rights.

Oh, and 3 months later? wtf...

The media made up the term first in 1993, and Democrats in Congress ran with it. The Assault Weapon Ban Act of 1994 was entirely cosmetic, and resulted in the biggest defeat the Democratic Party has suffered since they started the Civil War. Democrats went from being the majority in the House and Senate to being a minority in both houses after just one election. It was the very first time the Republicans controlled the House of Representatives since 1954.

Ironically, Alaska amended its State Constitution also in 1994 to recognize the individual right to keep and bear arms. Nobody in Alaska pays any attention to lower-48 leftist nonsense when it concerns firearms. They can pass whatever they please. Good luck trying to enforce it.

 

[Rich2018]

No they are not driving the bus. That is the problem with being party blind. You can't see who is driving both parties.

Not driving the bus very well perhaps, but they're in the driver's seat.

 

[Rich2018]

More evidence that you know nothing about the Republican party.

Explain.

 

[craig]

That depends. Are there other uses for diesel oil and fertilizer besides making bombs? Assault Rifles are designed to kill humans as quickly and efficiently as possible. That is really their only purpose. There are plenty of other guns that do legal things like hunting or target shooting better.

No. They are just another rifle. Rifles are used in only 4% of gun homicides, handguns 64%.

What the data says about gun deaths in the U.S.

While the number of gun deaths in the U.S. fell for the second consecutive year in 2023, it remained among the highest annual totals on record.

www.pewresearch.org

 

[Rich2018]

No. They are just another rifle. Rifles are used in only 4% of gun homicides, handguns 64%.

What the data says about gun deaths in the U.S.

While the number of gun deaths in the U.S. fell for the second consecutive year in 2023, it remained among the highest annual totals on record.

www.pewresearch.org

So just ban all rifles with a capacity of more than 1.

 

[TurtleDude]

That shooter cared nothing about laws and penalties he was planning to kill himself after he took as many innocent victims as he could with him. If the guns he used were illegal he would have not been able to buy them at all. That is the point of banning assault weapons. To reduce the ease that insane gun freaks have on obtaining weapons that kill so many people in such a short time. I know how scandalous and wrong you must think that is but what else can we do about such a situation?

we have banned heroin. that alone proves your argument is specious

 

[TurtleDude]

So just ban all rifles with a capacity of more than 1.

Let us ban those who want to get rid of our constitutional freedoms/

 

[iguanaman]

we have banned heroin. that alone proves your argument is specious

Can you buy heroin and needles at your local drug store? Do you think we should be able to?

 

[craig]

So just ban all rifles with a capacity of more than 1.

Why?