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At the time the 2cd Amendment was written

ecofarm said:
1. Self defense is a natural right.
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OK (but doesn't apply to people being shot at by the police)


2. The only objective realization of that right is firearm ownership and carry.
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Nope
Because most Americans don't have a gun and in many countries guns (or some guns) have been banned. The vast majority of people in Britain conduct (or plan to conduct) self defense without guns for instance


3. The Founders wrote the Second so as to transcend time.
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Debatable


4. Militia arms, that is infantry arms (individually issued), are not to be infringed upon.
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This could mean that the old Swiss practice of issuing citizen soldiers with a gun and sealed boxes of ammunition, meets to criteria of the 2nd Amendment


The whole "muzzle loader" thing is stupid. Pathetically ignorant. E-press doesn't count? It's stupid on its face. Further, it's sad that anyone could be incapable or just not bother to see the Founders understood their work must transcend time and crafted so.
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Perhaps, but so is the argument that citizens armed with handguns would maintain an effective militia.
 
Ginger Ale said:
So, you don't think it has anything to do with saving lives or the ever-rising death rate from guns? You just think it's just to make people's lives burdensome and filled with obstacles? So, just out of hatred?

I would have to disagree with that one. Seems a bit ridiculous.
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the sheeple yes, even though the rate of gun violence has nowhere near kept pace with the # of guns in circulation. The leaders of the anti gun movement pander to the sheeple and try to harass gun owners
 
TurtleDude said:
the sheeple yes, even though the rate of gun violence has nowhere near kept pace with the # of guns in circulation.
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Totally irrelevant

The number of mass shootings was increasing up to 2019

The leaders of the anti gun movement pander to the sheeple and try to harass gun owners
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Why not, "sheeple" were the victims of over 400 mass shootings, by gun owners, in 2019.
 
Rich2018 said:
Totally irrelevant

The number of mass shootings was increasing up to 2019



Why not, "sheeple" were the victims of over 400 mass shootings, by gun owners, in 2019.
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You would want to ban guns no matter what the facts are. The facts are this-in the last 30 years, the number of firearms has gone up well over 100 million. Yet the rate of gun violence has not increased significantly, and in many years, it has decreased.
 
TurtleDude said:
You would want to ban guns no matter what the facts are. The facts are this-in the last 30 years, the number of firearms has gone up well over 100 million. Yet the rate of gun violence has not increased significantly, and in many years, it has decreased.
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You have no facts to support your case - shootings ***HAVE*** gone up

I have facts to support mine

And yes, I would ban guns*

*subject to exemptions previously discussed.
 
Ginger Ale said:
Don't you think that view is a bit short-sided? Why do we elect those who don't give a shit?
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that question has also been answered.



as for the non-minorities that vote for democrats? MOST of them 1-dont give any more of a **** about minority than their party does and 2-cant see beyond the D next to their names.
 
VanceMack said:
as for the non-minorities that vote for democrats? MOST of them 1-dont give any more of a **** about minority than their party does and 2-cant see beyond the D next to their names.
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Oh the irony

The right would vote Mickey Mouse if he stood for the Republican party

Q: What is Mickey Mouse getting for Christmas?
A: A Donald Trump watch.
 
Rich2018 said:
Oh the irony

The right would vote Mickey Mouse if he stood for the Republican party

Q: What is Mickey Mouse getting for Christmas?
A: A Donald Trump watch.
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why do you think that gun control is almost always an idea supported only by leftists
 
TurtleDude said:
why do you think that gun control is almost always an idea supported only by leftists
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Because the USA has the least amount of gun control in the developed world and 10,000 gun homicides per year, with mass shootings a daily occurrence ?
 
Rich2018 said:
Because the USA has the least amount of gun control in the developed world and 10,000 gun homicides per year, with mass shootings a daily occurrence ?
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we also have more people who derive pleasure from recreational shooting activities than the rest of the world. We also have the best armed citizenry in the world-something any enemy of our country pays attention to. Mass shootings kill less people in a year than a few weekends in Democrat run inner cities. Gun banners now want to talk about Mass Shootings because regular homicides with firearms are generally perpetrated by felons living in Democrat strongholds
 
TurtleDude said:
we also have more people who derive pleasure from recreational shooting activities than the rest of the world.
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That is part of the problem

We also have the best armed citizenry in the world-something any enemy of our country pays attention to.
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Better than who ?
An armed citizenry who commits mass shootings on one another at a rate of over 400 per year

What enemies pay attention ?
Please can you give the names of those "enemy" countries
Did Russia consider it before the recent cyber attack on the USA ?


Mass shootings kill less people in a year than a few weekends in Democrat run inner cities.
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A lot of the mass shootings are in those cities dude.


Gun banners now want to talk about Mass Shootings because regular homicides with firearms are generally perpetrated by felons living in Democrat strongholds
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The goal of gun bans has always been to reduce shootings in general and mass shootings in particular

British legislation banning gun came in response to mass shootings in 1987 and 1996
An Australian gun ban came in response to a mass shooting in Port Arthur
And the Canadian PM announced a gun ban following the April mass shooting in Nova Scotia.
 
Rich2018 said:
That is part of the problem



Better than who ?
An armed citizenry who commits mass shootings on one another at a rate of over 400 per year

What enemies pay attention ?
Please can you give the names of those "enemy" countries
Did Russia consider it before the recent cyber attack on the USA ?




A lot of the mass shootings are in those cities dude.





The goal of gun bans has always been to reduce shootings in general and mass shootings in particular

British legislation banning gun came in response to mass shootings in 1987 and 1996
An Australian gun ban came in response to a mass shooting in Port Arthur
And the Canadian PM announced a gun ban following the April mass shooting in Nova Scotia.
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yeah the cowardly brits had a collective bed wetting that punished thousands of innocent people so their cowardly leaders could claim WE DID SOMETHING. that sort of mentality is one we won't tolerate in our politicians, hopefully
 
TurtleDude said:
yeah the cowardly brits had a collective bed wetting that punished thousands of innocent people so their cowardly leaders could claim WE DID SOMETHING. that sort of mentality is one we won't tolerate in our politicians, hopefully
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American don't tolerate inaction causing hundreds of thousands of people to die and then a weak ass claim they did something ?
Someone needs to tell Donald Trump before he's voted out of office...oh wait

Yeah "cowardly" Brits

"When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the losers." - quote attributed to Socrates


I note you abandoned addressing the arguments in favor of spewing a diatribe.
 
it was written when Daniel Boone was living and we had just fought the British (and wondered in we'd have to fight them again or if Spain or France would invade us).


what were they gonna do, take the muskets away from the potential American soldiers??
 
Rich2018 said:
American don't tolerate inaction causing hundreds of thousands of people to die and then a weak ass claim they did something ?
Someone needs to tell Donald Trump before he's voted out of office...oh wait

Yeah "cowardly" Brits

"When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the losers." - quote attributed to Socrates


I note you abandoned addressing the arguments in favor of spewing a diatribe.
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well many years ago, British soldiers tried to disarm what were our ancestors. They took up arms and fired on the British. I think some of that blood still is around today. I think it is cowardly to punish people who are not to blame, so those who do the punishing can ingratiate themselves in the eyes of the sheep who demand SOMETHING be done.
 
CaughtInThe said:
it was written when Daniel Boone was living and we had just fought the British (and wondered in we'd have to fight them again or if Spain or France would invade us).


what were they gonna do, take the muskets away from the potential American soldiers??
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that's as stupid as insinuating that the only speech that is protected is that which is conveyed by voice or an 18th century printing press
 
TurtleDude said:
that's as stupid as insinuating that the only speech that is protected is that which is conveyed by voice or an 18th century printing press
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It's just facts. I can't help it if you don't like it.
 
CaughtInThe said:
here, i'll walk you through it since you don't like it...


was Daniel Boone alive then?
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red herring alert. At the time the second amendment was written, there were repeating firearms and faster repetition was easily imagined. So Daniel Boone really means nothing.
 
TurtleDude said:
red herring alert. At the time the second amendment was written, there were repeating firearms and faster repetition was easily imagined. So Daniel Boone really means nothing.
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damn dude. i was gonna walk you through each part of my post and you can't even give an ole "Yes" to if he was alive or not.

:ROFLMAO: :ROFLMAO: :ROFLMAO: :ROFLMAO:
 
CaughtInThe said:
damn dude. i was gonna walk you through each part of my post and you can't even give an ole "Yes" to if he was alive or not.

:ROFLMAO: :ROFLMAO: :ROFLMAO: :ROFLMAO:
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Your posts have not demonstrated to me that there is ANYTHING you can say to me that has any value in second amendment discussions. Now I will read all of your posts with an open mind and perhaps you can post something that I will find edifying. So far, that is not the case
 
TurtleDude said:
Your posts have not demonstrated to me that there is ANYTHING you can say to me that has any value in second amendment discussions. Now I will read all of your posts with an open mind and perhaps you can post something that I will find edifying. So far, that is not the case
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okay, so i'll move on since you can't answer the Daniel Boone question...

was there a Revolutionary War?
 
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