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As Trump dithers over Ukraine, Russia’s military edge weakens, officials say

JoeB131 said:
Probably not.
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You trust Putin? Why do you trust Putin?

JoeB131 said:
I would say both sides were responsible for letting this escalate to the point it did. Donbass and Crimea leaving Ukraine should have been an amicable divorce, not the dishes throwing and pet-killing split it's turned into.
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Who controls Putin? Does Putin obey someone? Who forces him to do anything? Can anyone force him to do anything? Is Putin in control of the Russian army? Who ordered the army to invade?

The point is that no one made the decision to invade other than him.

He had other options and he chose war.

JoeB131 said:
Actually, no. Putin is not practicing Eugenics, he's not starting up concentration camps. He's reclaiming territory that Russia never should have given up to start with.
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He's conducting a delusional war of conquest. The self determination lie is an excuse. His legal counsel declared the USSR wasn't legally dissolved. His foreign minister claimed that the Baltics should be removed from NATO, ..... so that he can invade them when they don't have a security agreement. This is a war of conquest.



When you read his demands, what compromise or concessions did he offer? Did he rescind any previous demand? Did he express any hint of ending the war? No, his demands are that Ukraine is not part of any security agreement, so that he can attack when he wants to. He also insisted they have limited arms amd military equipment and personnel. Why demand that? So that he can subdue and control a sovereign nation.
JoeB131 said:
Heh, heh, heh... you know.
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No I don't so I'll figure you mean they will kill all the Mexicans. That would settle the problem. Is that what you meant? No? I'm not sure I want to hear what you're thinking so forget it.

Putin is the one who started this war and he's the only one who could stop it.

Do you trust Putin?
 
soap box said:
You trust Putin? Why do you trust Putin?
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I don't trust Putin. I also realize that given his army's less-than-stellar performance in Ukraine, they are hardly a threat to Europe or the US, except if they feel backed into a corner and feel compelled to use their nukes.


Yes, and that was a bad decision. Now we need a solution that let's everyone save a little face and end the war.

Or we can just keep dumping money into Ukraine, because it's not like we're broke or anything.... oh, wait.


No, he's just reclaiming his own territory, if he even wants to go that far.

The Baltics have been part of Russia longer than they were ever independent states. Same with Ukraine.


Or so they don't join in an invasion of Russia.

Again, WW2, Hitler formed an alliance with the express purpose of invading the USSR. They probably don't want such an alliance within their borders.

soap box said:
No I don't so I'll figure you mean they will kill all the Mexicans. That would settle the problem. Is that what you meant? No? I'm not sure I want to hear what you're thinking so forget it.
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Naw, just send them back to Mexico. The dipshits are burning stuff flying Mexican flags, just making Trump's deportation policies even more popular.
 
Rogue Valley said:
What should we do with those who support Putin's war of aggression in Ukraine?
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Nothing, guy.
Ukraine has already lost. It's just a matter of when the Checks stop flowing to the Kleptocrats.
 
JoeB131 said:
I don't trust Putin. I also realize that given his army's less-than-stellar performance in Ukraine, they are hardly a threat to Europe or the US, except if they feel backed into a corner and feel compelled to use their nukes.
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Most people agree with that. The question is if he's justified in claiming he will be attacked.
Does he fear Poland or Latvia? France, Finland, who is going to attack him?

JoeB131 said:
Yes, and that was a bad decision. Now we need a solution that let's everyone save a little face and end the war.
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As soon as Putin orders a true ceasefire and as soon as Putin offers concessions. He can put down the gun and talk it over. Why is that so unlikely now? Because he's a war criminal.


JoeB131 said:
Or we can just keep dumping money into Ukraine, because it's not like we're broke or anything.... oh, wait.
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But we have $157 Million for a National guard and Marines in L.A. , and we have plenty of money for Trump's parade. That would buy a lot of missiles for Ukraine, but trump can't decide if he supports a war criminal dictator.

JoeB131 said:
No, he's just reclaiming his own territory, if he even wants to go that far.
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You're suggesting something against international law , very plainly because everybody except Putin knows those are sovereign nation states.

What you just suggested is that the Soviet Union is still a nation, because you said the Baltics belong to him.

JoeB131 said:
The Baltics have been part of Russia longer than they were ever independent states. Same with Ukraine.
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My answer is in the questions at the end of this post.



JoeB131 said:
Or so they don't join in an invasion of Russia.
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You answered someone else's question.
What concessions has Putin made?

JoeB131 said:
Again, WW2, Hitler formed an alliance with the express purpose of invading the USSR. They probably don't want such an alliance within their borders.
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You mean within the border of the Soviet Union. Questions below

JoeB131 said:
Naw, just send them back to Mexico. The dipshits are burning stuff flying Mexican flags, just making Trump's deportation policies even more popular.
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When you saw video of people burning flags, how do you know their current immigration status? Or are you saying all Mexicans should be deported?


Do you believe the USSR was dissolved?

Do you support the restoration of the USSR?
 
soap box said:
Most people agree with that. The question is if he's justified in claiming he will be attacked.
Does he fear Poland or Latvia? France, Finland, who is going to attack him?
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Well, let's look at that.

Poland invaded Russia in 1919.

Finland invaded Russia in 1941 along with Germany, Italy, Romania, Hungary, Slovakia and volunteer from various quisling states in Europe.

So now you have this huge alliance that exists SOLEY to oppose Russia. NATO really has no other purpose. It, along with the EU, slowerly are encroaching into what Russia (rightfully or not) considers their sphere of influence.

So I say again, if The Chinese sent a couple of PLA division to set up shop in Mexico, do you think we'd be happy about it?

soap box said:
But we have $157 Million for a National guard and Marines in L.A. , and we have plenty of money for Trump's parade. That would buy a lot of missiles for Ukraine, but trump can't decide if he supports a war criminal dictator.
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First, I hope you understand the difference between 157 million to quell a riot and 400 BILLION to prop up a kleptocracy.



I'm saying Russia considers that their sphere of influence, and we are encroaching on it, foolishly.

soap box said:
When you saw video of people burning flags, how do you know their current immigration status? Or are you saying all Mexicans should be deported?
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I'm saying I have no problem deporting people who burn our flag, if they don't want to live here. But on a more serious note, it's just bad optics to burn our flag while flying a foreign flag. Liberals can be INCREDIBLY tone deaf. Learn to read the room.

soap box said:
Do you believe the USSR was dissolved?

Do you support the restoration of the USSR?
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The dissolution of the USSR was the worst thing that happened to us in terms of foreign policy.

We used to be able to play the USSR and PRC off against each other. Now the Russian Federation has gone hat in hand to Xi, who is just loving this shit.
 
*
JoeB131 said:
So I say again, if The Chinese sent a couple of PLA division to set up shop in Mexico, do you think we'd be happy about it?
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Do you think China will attack the US?

JoeB131 said:
First, I hope you understand the difference between 157 million to quell a riot and 400 BILLION to prop up a kleptocracy.
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Did I say it could prop up Ukraine, or did I say it would buy a lot of missiles?

JoeB131 said:
I'm saying Russia considers that their sphere of influence, and we are encroaching on it, foolishly.
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The Soviet Union is history. It's dead. We don't do anyone a favor by playing along with his charade.
JoeB131 said:
The dissolution of the USSR was the worst thing that happened to us in terms of foreign policy.
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*
JoeB131 said:
We used to be able to play the USSR and PRC off against each other. Now the Russian Federation has gone hat in hand to Xi, who is just loving this shit.
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Why not play the Russian Federation against China? Maybe because they stopped playing that game.


******
Why do we have a huge alliance that exists SOLELY to oppose Russia?

  • Human Rights and Civil Liberties
  • Suppression of dissent
  • Abuse of Power and Impunity
  • Crackdown on Civil Society
  • Military Aggression and Annexation
  • War Crimes
  • Autocracy - Oligarchy - Dictatorship - Authoritarianism
  • Corruption
  • Human Rights and Discrimination against Indigenous People
  • Incarceration of protesters.
  • Suppression and silencing Media

Treaties and international law that Putin has violated-
  • The Minsk agreements I and II
  • The Budapest Memorandum of 1994
  • UN charter


The UN Human Rights Report A/HRC/54/54 reports a severe deterioration since the 2022 invasion and a domestic systematic crackdown on civil society. The most revealing aspect that reflects this war is Putin's treatment of indigenous peoples within his borders.

His rationale for the invasion of Ukraine is self-determination. If that were true, he wouldn't send as many as 200,000 Russians to their death. But more importantly, the ethnic groups within his borders have been brutally coerced, and men of these groups are the first to be called to the front line. This is the contradiction that clearly demonstrates he is NOT interested in indigenous peoples, he is NOT conducting this war for self-determination because he only sends the Russians he doesn't want, while sparing the Muscovites. The indigenous subjects of the Russian Federation are less important than ethnic Russians. That contradicts self-determination and reveals that the concept is only an excuse for his war of conquest.

Do you realize what you are defending? Do you realize how many Americans died to defend democracy? But you are going to support and defend dictatorial control.


*Why do we have a huge alliance that exists SOLELY to oppose Russia?
Because Putin is the most dangerous and reckless dictator on the planet.

Russia: 'Systematic crackdown' on human rights since Ukraine invasion

A UN investigation found evidence of increased police brutality and repression since February 2022.
www.bbc.co.uk
 
soap box said:
Do you think China will attack the US?
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Unlikey, unless we provoke something, such as encouraging Taiwan to become independent, but that wasn't my point.

If China deployed troops to Mexico and signed a military alliance with Mexico, America would have every reason to be concerned.

soap box said:
Did I say it could prop up Ukraine, or did I say it would buy a lot of missiles?
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Why are we doing either? This war has already ground down into a stalemate at best.

soap box said:
The Soviet Union is history. It's dead. We don't do anyone a favor by playing along with his charade.
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No, but we do have to deal with the legacy of it, that the internal borders of it's republics weren't drawn with demographics in mind. So as a result, 19% of the population of "Ukraine" are ethnic Russians, most of them concentrated in Crimea and Donbas. If fair elections were held in those regions, they would vote to rejoin Russia.

soap box said:
Why not play the Russian Federation against China? Maybe because they stopped playing that game.
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Maybe because both China and Russia see America as trying to violate their spheres of influence.

In the case of Russia, we are moving NATO right up to his doorstep.

In the case of China, we are instigating on a variety of issues, = Taiwan, Hong Kong, Tibet, and Xinjiang.

Our mouths are writing checks our backsides can't cash.



Um, countries we call Allies are engaged in equally bad behavior. (Yes, I'm looking at you, Israel) What we need to do is learn to mind our own business.

The fact is, when Germany reunified, we promised that we wouldn't expand NATO. "Not one inch Eastwards" Promised James Baker in 1989.

By 1997, we were inviting in Poland, the Czech Republic and Hungary.

How Gorbachev was misled over assurances against NATO expansion | NATO Watch

natowatch.org
 

It's obvious you'll tell any lie for Putin. In my previous post it should have obvious that I'm completely immune to your incredibly stupid and totally exaggerated propaganda.

I'll be sure to correct you when you defend Putin when I see it but this is goodbye for now.
 

If this continues, Trump may feel compelled to assist Russia which will undoubtedly be a brilliant move in a geopolitical sense, and Trump arguably owes Putin a great deal.

Perhaps a few squadrons of F-35's will do.

Then, instead, Putin will owe Trump big time.

Geopolitically.

MAGA.
 
Tigerace117 said:
Except unlike Pearl Harbor, in which the US lost thousands of sailors and numerous incredibly powerful battleships that had been the frontline of prewar US response plan for the Pacific, the Russians lost....some indefinite number of bomber aircraft.
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Don't forget we practically forced the Japanese Empire to attack us by freezing its assets and embargoing its oil supplies, but those 'incredibly powerful battleships' were too slow to be of much use for anything but shore bombardment, though those that remained did a decent job in the Surigao Strait ambush:

Although the Pearl Harbor battleships had taken their revenge, they did relatively little of the total damage. The destroyers had heavily reduced the first Japanese force before the battleships ever fired a shot. When the behemoths finally ended their barrages, they only sunk one Japanese battleship and fatally wounded one Japanese cruiser. However, the goal of the battleships had been to keep the Japanese from advancing through the strait to attack MacArthur’s landing force, and even if the destroyers had not reduce[d] the Japanese force, the battleships would still have stopped it. The battleships had decisively done their job.​

so losing them was of little consequence.

Revenge of The Pearl Harbor Battleships

October 25, 1944, 0200 hours. It is the final major day of the Battle of Leyte Gulf. Six America battleships slowly steam back and forth across the mouth of the Surigao Strait. Five are survivors of the Pearl Harbor attack—West Virginia, Pennsylvania, California, Tennessee, and Maryland. Two...
www.pearlharboraviationmuseum.org
 
The US is going to be too busy invading Iran to help Israel.
 
Except to the thousands of sailors who died on them, of course.

Having battleships is, generally speaking, better than not having battleships.
 
Tigerace117 said:
Except to the thousands of sailors who died on them, of course.
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You forgot to mention that it's all America's fault those brave sailors were killed.

Having battleships is, generally speaking, better than not having battleships.
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The battleships that survived were great for shore bombardments.
 

Yeah, you are willing to fight to the last Ukrainian.

It's not like you are taking any chances.

Hamish Howl said:
Heh. I don't see the government as having authorization to outlaw bad political beliefs.

That is the job of we, the citizenry.
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Maybe we should. The Constitution isn't a suicide pact.
 
JoeB131 said:
Yeah, you are willing to fight to the last Ukrainian.

It's not like you are taking any chances.



Maybe we should. The Constitution isn't a suicide pact.
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You never addressed the main point. You posted a question and I answered it.

******
You asked:
Why do we have a huge alliance that exists SOLELY to oppose Russia?

Because of this:

Human Rights and Civil Liberties
Suppression of dissent
Abuse of Power and Impunity
Crackdown on Civil Society
Military Aggression and Annexation
War Crimes
Autocracy - Oligarchy - Dictatorship - Authoritarianism
Corruption
Human Rights and Discrimination against Indigenous People
Incarceration of protesters.
Suppression and silencing Media

Treaties and international law that Putin has violated-
The Minsk agreements I and II
The Budapest Memorandum of 1994
UN charter


The UN Human Rights Report A/HRC/54/54 reports a severe deterioration since the 2022 invasion and a domestic systematic crackdown on civil society. The most revealing aspect that reflects this war is Putin's treatment of indigenous peoples within his borders.


The MAIN IDEA:
"Men from indigenous communities make up a disproportionate number of those drafted into the army, it found, and there is evidence “authorities have imposed travel restrictions, blocking exit routes from towns and villages during mobilisation sweeps”.

Ms Katzarova said: “Indigenous people… are really facing extinction if this continues.

"I think, partly my guess and the trends that indigenous leaders are painting, is that this is part of the Russian authorities really wanting to send to the front line ‘disposable people’, not the Slavs from St Petersburg or Moscow."

CONCLUSION
His rationale for the invasion of Ukraine is self-determination. If that were true, he wouldn't send as many as 200,000 Russians to their death. But more importantly, the ethnic groups within his borders have been brutally coerced, and men of these groups are the first to be called to the front line. This is the contradiction that clearly demonstrates he is NOT interested in indigenous peoples, he is NOT conducting this war for self-determination because he only sends the Russians he doesn't want, while sparing the Muscovites. The indigenous subjects of the Russian Federation are less important than ethnic Russians. That contradicts self-determination and reveals that the concept is only an excuse for his war of conquest.

Do you realize what you are defending? Do you realize how many Americans died to defend democracy? But you are going to support and defend dictatorial control.

Question:
*Why do we have a huge alliance that exists SOLELY to oppose Russia?

Answer:
Because Putin is the most dangerous and reckless dictator on the planet. Europeans know who Putin is, that's why.

www.bbc.co.uk
 

Gosh... Putin seems very bad.

I'm just glad our dictator has it in for minorities, RINOs, wayward Libertarians and lib-progs instead.

Wear the red hat and you will be saved.

MAGA.
 

You said Biden. Not "The West".

Fail less.
 
JoeB131 said:
The Baltics have been part of Russia longer than they were ever independent states. Same with Ukraine.
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That makes no sense. Just because they were "part of Russia" for "x" amount of years before being independent does not give Putzin the right to invade them with claims of "reclaiming territory".
 
I fail to see how anyone thinks the Ukrainian Nazis can overwhelm the Russian liberators. The Russian military edge has weakened, not gone away. America is no longer funding this fake country anyway.
 
Roadvirus said:
That makes no sense. Just because they were "part of Russia" for "x" amount of years before being independent does not give Putzin the right to invade them with claims of "reclaiming territory".
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To the Putinistas... once Russian always Russian.
 
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