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The definition of life has not been established and short of both sides agreeing on that it is possible that cherries and watermelons are being compared while arguing which is a legume?
Chuz said:That's just it, I don't "define life" Iangb.
Neither do I (nor anyone else, IMO) need to 'define life' in order to conclude that an "individual's" life begins at the moment of their conception.
Inspired by a comment that Prom just made;
Fair question.
As it pertains to the abortion debate,.... how do you 'define life?'
What definition do you use?
Please support your definition with references.
You ask for our definition of 'life' but make backing it up with an external definition a precondition... or maybe I didn't understand the (retarded) question. <snip>
Chuz, I think you should have narrowed down "define life" to Human life. Prom is going to start talking about Kudzu and turkeys, while Iangb is going to claim that killing a cockroach makes any definition you give hypocritical.
Just sayin....
Inspired by a comment that Prom just made;
Fair question.
As it pertains to the abortion debate,.... how do you 'define life?'
What definition do you use?
Please support your definition with references.
When you mentioned before that you are starting this thread, I was genuinely looking forward to it and I too hoped that you, since you had the idea and did start the topic, would have put forth your position too. Then I just read iangb's post, particularly the quote in it and it gave me pause and then your post, as quoted above.I'm reading several and trying to find the one that best sums up my basis as it applies to why I believe an individual's life begins at conception.
Do you find it impossible to resist being an asshole?Chuz, I think you should have narrowed down "define life" to Human life. Prom is going to start talking about Kudzu and turkeys, while Iangb is going to claim that killing a cockroach makes any definition you give hypocritical.
Just sayin....
Do you find it impossible to resist being an asshole?
Moderator's Warning: |
So, what life is, beyond acknowledging the biological function, is not really important, but wen is it significant is. It is also important to whom it is significant, just the immediate family or beyond that to society, because based on that importance are the attitudes toward it formulated.
Having thought about it... 'Life' isn't the issue here; as I've said many times before...
We all seem to agree on that.A pattern emerges,...
A pattern emerges,...
You miss my point. Possibly deliberately, in order to throw in a false personal attack, but that's irrelevant.We are only talking about life at this point.
The poll results you are citing is in reference to 'personhood.'
But thanks for the reminder,... It's clear that someone who denies the significance of when a life begins won't likely be affected by personhood either.
'You miss my point. Possibly deliberately, in order to throw in a false personal attack, but that's irrelevant.
Life is not the issue, because no-one denies that a zygote is alive. No-one denies that a sperm is alive, either. It's personhood that's the issue - finding at which point the life stops being 'part of' the mother/father and starts being a life in it's own right. We're looking for 'life' in personhood terms - what that means is, we're looking for 'personhood'.
'Individual' is a key word there, as is 'organism'. And why use legal definitions, when you currently disagree with the law?'
The current most basic legal definition for 'person' is "a human being."
To me, that means an individual "human organism."
I've never said otherwise.I'm glad that you respect the fact that a human zygote is (objectively speaking) "alive."
Less likely.Hopefully, you will also agree that the life it is living is its own.
There's four bullet points, Chuz, that have been waiting on your response for quite some time now. If you want to convince me, that'd be a good place to start.But more important to the abortion debate is,... when and if you are ever going to accept (objectively) that a human zygote is (biologically speaking) a new human being. A new human "organism."
You miss my point. Possibly deliberately, in order to throw in a false personal attack, but that's irrelevant.
Life is not the issue, because no-one denies that a zygote is alive. No-one denies that a sperm is alive, either. It's personhood that's the issue - finding at which point the life stops being 'part of' the mother/father and starts being a life in it's own right. We're looking for 'life' in personhood terms - what that means is, we're looking for 'personhood'.
Chuz, I think you should have narrowed down "define life" to Human life. Prom is going to start talking about Kudzu and turkeys, while Iangb is going to claim that killing a cockroach makes any definition you give hypocritical.
Just sayin....
Moderator's Warning: |
I thinkPersonhood is the issue only when speaking of those that favor the legality of elective abortion. It is not the issue for all of humanity.
I thinkfourfive questions is the best way to illustrate my point here.
Do you consider a zygote to be a person/individual?
Do you consider a sperm to be a person/individual?
Do you consider a zygote to be alive?
Do you consider a sperm to be alive?
Given that you favour different legal treatment of sperm and zygotes, which of the above two pairs of questions shows a different answer for each?
So as such, which is more important in deciding if something should be legally protected? Whether it's alive or not, or whether it's a person/individual or not?yes.
no.
yes.
yes.
So as such, which is more important in deciding if something should be legally protected? Whether it's alive or not, or whether it's a person/individual or not?
So it is 'individuality' which is important, not 'life'.my answer doesn't fit your rather pointed options. It is worth protecting if it is an individual life, a sperm is alive, but is not an individual life.
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