As Biden repeats claim that ‘nobody could have known’ Afghan Army would collapse, bombshell transcript from July reveals he pressured Afghan President

[jmotivator]

Biden told Afghan president they needed to 'change perception' of war

In the last phone call between Joe Biden and his Afghan counterpart the American president said they needed to change perceptions of the Taliban's rapid advance 'whether it is true or not.'

www.dailymail.co.uk

President Joe Biden wanted the now-departed Afghan president to create the 'perception' that his government was capable of holding off the Taliban - an indication he knew it was only a matter of time before the US ally fell to the Islamic group even while reassuring Americans at home that it would not happen.

In the last phone call between Biden and his Afghan then-counterpart Ashraf Ghani, the American president said they needed to change perceptions of the Taliban's rapid advance 'whether it is true or not,' according to excerpts published on Tuesday.

Sooo... let me get this straight. As the Taliban were murdering their way through the Afghan Countryside, as the Afghan government was on the brink of collapse, Biden gets of the phone with he Afghan president and talks the the Afghan president about getting the TALIBAN better PR, even if it's false. He's talking political strategy with the guy endanger of being hung... to help Biden politically.

The ONLY reason for that absolute bullshit is if Biden was only looking out for his own hide. The only reason he would have for not being truthful to the American people about who the Taliban actual are is because he needed to paint the picture of the Taliban disaster as some grand Diplomatic process.

I guess he just took for granted that the press would go along and forgot that he just ****ed over a lot of foreign countries as well.

 

[Mycroft]

Biden told Afghan president they needed to 'change perception' of war

In the last phone call between Joe Biden and his Afghan counterpart the American president said they needed to change perceptions of the Taliban's rapid advance 'whether it is true or not.'

www.dailymail.co.uk

Sooo... let me get this straight. As the Taliban were murdering their way through the Afghan Countryside, as the Afghan government was on the brink of collapse, Biden gets of the phone with he Afghan president and talks the the Afghan president about getting the TALIBAN better PR, even if it's false. He's talking political strategy with the guy endanger of being hung... to help Biden politically.

The ONLY reason for that absolute bullshit is if Biden was only looking out for his own hide. The only reason he would have for not being truthful to the American people about who the Taliban actual are is because he needed to paint the picture of the Taliban disaster as some grand Diplomatic process.

I guess he just took for granted that the press would go along and forgot that he just ****ed over a lot of foreign countries as well.

Anyone with more than half a brain cell knows that the people who control Biden (the 90+% of the Obama administration that now work in the Biden Executive Branch) will say and do anything to manipulate public opinion. That's more important to them than the actual results of their actions. This should not shock or surprise anyone.

What has me curious is this: Where did this leak come from? Let's face it...it had to have come from within the Biden administration. That's the only place that has a transcript AND audio of the conversation that Biden had with the Afghan President. Who are the people in his administration who released this stuff?

(I think I know, but I'm curious what others think.)

 

[swing_voter]

Biden told Afghan president they needed to 'change perception' of war

In the last phone call between Joe Biden and his Afghan counterpart the American president said they needed to change perceptions of the Taliban's rapid advance 'whether it is true or not.'

www.dailymail.co.uk

Sooo... let me get this straight. As the Taliban were murdering their way through the Afghan Countryside, as the Afghan government was on the brink of collapse, Biden gets of the phone with he Afghan president and talks the the Afghan president about getting the TALIBAN better PR, even if it's false. He's talking political strategy with the guy endanger of being hung... to help Biden politically.

The ONLY reason for that absolute bullshit is if Biden was only looking out for his own hide. The only reason he would have for not being truthful to the American people about who the Taliban actual are is because he needed to paint the picture of the Taliban disaster as some grand Diplomatic process.

I guess he just took for granted that the press would go along and forgot that he just ****ed over a lot of foreign countries as well.

QUESTIONABLE SOURCE
A questionable source exhibits one or more of the following: extreme bias, consistent promotion of propaganda/conspiracies, poor or no sourcing to credible information, a complete lack of transparency, and/or is fake news. Fake News is the deliberate attempt to publish hoaxes and/or disinformation for profit or influence (Learn More). Sources listed in the Questionable Category may be very untrustworthy and should be fact-checked on a per-article basis. Please note sources on this list are not considered fake news unless specifically written in the reasoning section for that source. See all Questionable sources.

Overall, we rate Daily Mail Right Biased and Questionable due to numerous failed fact checks and poor information sourcing.
Detailed Report
Questionable Reasoning: Right, Propaganda, Conspiracy, Some Fake News, Numerous Failed Fact Checks
Bias Rating: RIGHT
Factual Reporting: LOW
Country: United Kingdom (35/180 Press Freedom)
Media Type: Newspaper
Traffic/Popularity: High Traffic
MBFC Credibility Rating: LOW CREDIBILITY

History
Established in 1896 by Harold and Alfred Harmsworth and Kennedy Jones, The Daily Mail is a tabloid newspaper in the UK. It is edited by Geordie Greig, who took over as editor in November 2018 from Paul Dacre, who had been the editor since 1992. The Daily Mail’s parent company is DMGT, which owns newspapers including the Daily Mail, the Mail on Sunday, and The Metro. The chairman is Jonathan Harmsworth, 4th Viscount Rothermere, who inherited the media empire founded by his great-grandfather Harold and his brother Alfred a century earlier. Harold Sidney Harmsworth is also known to be an admirer of Mussolini and a supporter of Nazi Germany.

Read our profile on UK government influence on media.

Funded by / Ownership
The Daily Mail’s parent company is Daily Mail, and General Trust or DMGT and its chairman are Jonathan Harmsworth who inherited the media empire founded by his great-grandfather Harold Sidney Harmsworth. The Executive Committee is listed on their about page.

DMGT also publishes the Mail on Sunday and Metro titles. Besides journalism, DMGT includes risk management, event organization such as conferences, training sessions, seminars and is the largest shareholder in property portal Zoopla, sold to Silver Lake. The main revenue of the Daily Mail is digital advertising, print ads, and subscription fees. You can find their 2018 assets report here.

Daily Mail - Bias and Credibility

QUESTIONABLE SOURCE A questionable source exhibits one or more of the following: extreme bias, consistent promotion of propaganda/conspiracies, poor or no

mediabiasfactcheck.com

Daily Mail isn't real news. It's fake news. There might be a tiny bit of truth in there, but that's it.




.

 

[Cardinal]

Biden told Afghan president they needed to 'change perception' of war

In the last phone call between Joe Biden and his Afghan counterpart the American president said they needed to change perceptions of the Taliban's rapid advance 'whether it is true or not.'

www.dailymail.co.uk

Sooo... let me get this straight. As the Taliban were murdering their way through the Afghan Countryside, as the Afghan government was on the brink of collapse, Biden gets of the phone with he Afghan president and talks the the Afghan president about getting the TALIBAN better PR, even if it's false. He's talking political strategy with the guy endanger of being hung... to help Biden politically.

The ONLY reason for that absolute bullshit is if Biden was only looking out for his own hide. The only reason he would have for not being truthful to the American people about who the Taliban actual are is because he needed to paint the picture of the Taliban disaster as some grand Diplomatic process.

I guess he just took for granted that the press would go along and forgot that he just ****ed over a lot of foreign countries as well.

We all knew the Afghan government was weak. But for a variety of reasons that none of us were aware of, we didn't know how weak. Based on twenty years of intelligence failures, it was reasonable to think we had at least a month or two before the government collapsed.

"an indication he knew it was only a matter of time before the US ally fell to the Islamic group"

Yeah, no shit. We all knew that.

 

[Cardinal]

Biden told Afghan president they needed to 'change perception' of war

In the last phone call between Joe Biden and his Afghan counterpart the American president said they needed to change perceptions of the Taliban's rapid advance 'whether it is true or not.'

www.dailymail.co.uk

Sooo... let me get this straight. As the Taliban were murdering their way through the Afghan Countryside, as the Afghan government was on the brink of collapse, Biden gets of the phone with he Afghan president and talks the the Afghan president about getting the TALIBAN better PR, even if it's false. He's talking political strategy with the guy endanger of being hung... to help Biden politically.

The ONLY reason for that absolute bullshit is if Biden was only looking out for his own hide. The only reason he would have for not being truthful to the American people about who the Taliban actual are is because he needed to paint the picture of the Taliban disaster as some grand Diplomatic process.

I guess he just took for granted that the press would go along and forgot that he just ****ed over a lot of foreign countries as well.

Let's dig into this line from your article: "President Joe Biden wanted the now-departed Afghan president to create the 'perception' that his government was capable of holding off the Taliban - an indication he knew it was only a matter of time before the US ally fell to the Islamic group even while reassuring Americans at home that it would not happen."

What did Biden say about the Afghan government not falling to the Taliban? When did he make this reassurance? No personal attacks or deflections, please. I would like a specific answer to this.

 

[Cardinal]

Welp, I guess the OP never intended this thread to be more than just another drive-by.

 

[TomFitz]

Biden told Afghan president they needed to 'change perception' of war

In the last phone call between Joe Biden and his Afghan counterpart the American president said they needed to change perceptions of the Taliban's rapid advance 'whether it is true or not.'

www.dailymail.co.uk

Sooo... let me get this straight. As the Taliban were murdering their way through the Afghan Countryside, as the Afghan government was on the brink of collapse, Biden gets of the phone with he Afghan president and talks the the Afghan president about getting the TALIBAN better PR, even if it's false. He's talking political strategy with the guy endanger of being hung... to help Biden politically.

The ONLY reason for that absolute bullshit is if Biden was only looking out for his own hide. The only reason he would have for not being truthful to the American people about who the Taliban actual are is because he needed to paint the picture of the Taliban disaster as some grand Diplomatic process.

I guess he just took for granted that the press would go along and forgot that he just ****ed over a lot of foreign countries as well.

You don’t have it straight at all.

 

[TheParser]

C'mon, man!

Give the old guy who is currently occupying the Oval Office some slack!

Chances are that he was just reading off some talking points that had been presented to him by his "advisers."

No one takes seriously anything he says.

It's the "advisers" around him whom one needs to listen to carefully.

For example, that silly little Secretary of State and others of his ilk.

 

[TomFitz]

Anyone with more than half a brain cell knows that the people who control Biden (the 90+% of the Obama administration that now work in the Biden Executive Branch) will say and do anything to manipulate public opinion. That's more important to them than the actual results of their actions. This should not shock or surprise anyone.

What has me curious is this: Where did this leak come from? Let's face it...it had to have come from within the Biden administration. That's the only place that has a transcript AND audio of the conversation that Biden had with the Afghan President. Who are the people in his administration who released this stuff?

(I think I know, but I'm curious what others think.)

OK, consider your bluff called.

“(I think I know, but I'm curious what others think.)”

You made the claim, after adorning it with a garnish of right wing nonsense.

 

[Cardinal]

C'mon, man!

Give the old guy who is currently occupying the Oval Office some slack!

Chances are that he was just reading off some talking points that had been presented to him by his "advisers."

No one takes seriously anything he says.

It's the "advisers" around him whom one needs to listen to carefully.

For example, that silly little Secretary of State and others of his ilk.

Since you're clearly the one with a granular understanding of this topic, please share with us a quote by Biden reassuring us the Afghan government would never fall to the Taliban. It's obvious that you've had your head buried in exhaustive foreign policy analysis for years now, so I know you've got this.

 

[MamboDervish]

Sooo... let me get this straight.

If only you could.

As the Taliban were murdering their way through the Afghan Countryside, as the Afghan government was on the brink of collapse, Biden gets of the phone with he Afghan president and talks the the Afghan president about getting the TALIBAN better PR, even if it's false. He's talking political strategy with the guy endanger of being hung... to help Biden politically. (?)

As expected, the wrong conclusion.

The ONLY reason for that absolute bullshit is if Biden was only looking out for his own hide. The only reason he would have for not being truthful to the American people about who the Taliban actual are is because he needed to paint the picture of the Taliban disaster as some grand Diplomatic process.

See above.

I guess he just took for granted that the press would go along and forgot that he just ****ed over a lot of foreign countries as well.

The article is 1/4 reportage, and 3/4 Op/Ed. In other words, 3/4 spin. Which is no surprise because if comes from a right-wing tabloid. In the military, morale is everything, and morale is bolstered by perception. If you believe there's nobody at the helm steering the ship, then as soon as you see you're headed for the shoals, you immediately prepare to abandon.

If you want the army to hold out, they have to believe that they can. As soon as they don't, then morale goes down the drain and they abandon their posts. The hope on everyone's part was that the AFS could demonstrate to the Taliban that they could hold out and defend themselves indefinitely. This would have led, eventually, to some kind of power sharing, because everybody knew that the Taliban were going nowhere. They could either evolve into a political force and be subsumed into the government - OR - the government could fall, and they would once again take over - which we all now know is what happened. But there was never any expectation that they would be "defeated" in any real sense of the word.

Every single projection you've made about Biden is false. His own words, many of which are quoted in the article, can be taken at face value. But one way or another, he wasn't going to get conned into escalating the war, or paying troops that we had already paid for and should have already been paid, but for the fact that their corrupt commanders pocketed their money. Biden is no fool. If the military commanders and the central authority in Kabul weren't willing to maintain an ongoing defense of their own country, Biden had no intention of propping them up any longer. It could go down hard, or it could go down easy, but was going to go down. We were pulling out one way or another, and I, for one, am delighted that we did.

Whatever happens henceforth in Afghanistan is their problem.

 

[Fishking]

QUESTIONABLE SOURCE

Daily Mail isn't real news. It's fake news. There might be a tiny bit of truth in there, but that's it.

Maybe you should futilely cry about it some more. It's not going to change the fact that your posts a ****ing stupid.

Excerpts of call between Joe Biden and Ashraf Ghani July 23

U.S. President Joe Biden and Afghanistan President Ashraf Ghani spoke by phone July 23. Here are excerpts from that call, based on a transcript and recording reviewed by Reuters:

www.reuters.com

WASHINGTON, Aug 31 (Reuters) - U.S. President Joe Biden and Afghanistan President Ashraf Ghani spoke by phone July 23. Here are excerpts from that call, based on a transcript and recording reviewed by Reuters:

BIDEN: Mr. President. Joe Biden.

GHANI: Of course, Mr. President, such a pleasure to hear your voice.

BIDEN: You know, I am a moment late. But I mean it sincerely. Hey look, I want to make it clear that I am not a military man any more than you are, but I have been meeting with our Pentagon folks, and our national security people, as you have with ours and yours, and as you know and I need not tell you the perception around the world and in parts of Afghanistan, I believe, is that things aren’t going well in terms of the fight against the Taliban.

And there’s a need, whether it is true or not, there is a need to project a different picture.

Btw...your mediabiasfactcheck site is a shitty biased site itself, so that's the ultimate irony of your stupid, ****ing worthless, empty-headed posts.

 

[American]

IMPEACH! Did I get that right?

 

[Cardinal]

Maybe you should futilely cry about it some more. It's not going to change the fact that your posts a ****ing stupid.

Excerpts of call between Joe Biden and Ashraf Ghani July 23

U.S. President Joe Biden and Afghanistan President Ashraf Ghani spoke by phone July 23. Here are excerpts from that call, based on a transcript and recording reviewed by Reuters:

www.reuters.com

WASHINGTON, Aug 31 (Reuters) - U.S. President Joe Biden and Afghanistan President Ashraf Ghani spoke by phone July 23. Here are excerpts from that call, based on a transcript and recording reviewed by Reuters:

BIDEN: Mr. President. Joe Biden.

GHANI: Of course, Mr. President, such a pleasure to hear your voice.

BIDEN: You know, I am a moment late. But I mean it sincerely. Hey look, I want to make it clear that I am not a military man any more than you are, but I have been meeting with our Pentagon folks, and our national security people, as you have with ours and yours, and as you know and I need not tell you the perception around the world and in parts of Afghanistan, I believe, is that things aren’t going well in terms of the fight against the Taliban.

And there’s a need, whether it is true or not, there is a need to project a different picture.

Btw...your mediabiasfactcheck site is a shitty biased site itself, so that's the ultimate irony of your stupid, ****ing worthless, empty-headed posts.

What do you think the material revelation here is? In other words, what new information does this bombshell bring to light?

 

[American]

If only you could.

As expected, the wrong conclusion.

See above.

The article is 1/4 reportage, and 3/4 Op/Ed. In other words, 3/4 spin. Which is no surprise because if comes from a right-wing tabloid. In the military, morale is everything, and morale is bolstered by perception. If you believe there's nobody at the helm steering the ship, then as soon as you see you're headed for the shoals, you immediately prepare to abandon.

If you want the army to hold out, they have to believe that they can. As soon as they don't, then morale goes down the drain and they abandon their posts. The hope on everyone's part was that the AFS could demonstrate to the Taliban that they could hold out and defend themselves indefinitely. This would have led, eventually, to some kind of power sharing, because everybody knew that the Taliban were going nowhere. They could either evolve into a political force and be subsumed into the government - OR - the government could fall, and they would once again take over - which we all now know is what happened. But there was never any expectation that they would be "defeated" in any real sense of the word.

Every single projection you've made about Biden is false. His own words, many of which are quoted in the article, can be taken at face value. But one way or another, he wasn't going to get conned into escalating the war, or paying troops that we had already paid for and should have already been paid, but for the fact that their corrupt commanders pocketed their money. Biden is no fool. If the military commanders and the central authority in Kabul weren't willing to maintain an ongoing defense of their own country, Biden had no intention of propping them up any longer. It could go down hard, or it could go down easy, but was going to go down. We were pulling out one way or another, and I, for one, am delighted that we did.

Whatever happens henceforth in Afghanistan is their problem.

Lying is always okay with Democrats, that's why they do it so much. So they wanted to create fake news about the Taliban progress to sway public opinion. Obviously the intel said the opposite.

 

[Jredbaron96]

IMPEACH! Did I get that right?

What part of this phone call do you think would be considered grounds for impeachment?

 

[BlueTex]

Biden told Afghan president they needed to 'change perception' of war

In the last phone call between Joe Biden and his Afghan counterpart the American president said they needed to change perceptions of the Taliban's rapid advance 'whether it is true or not.'

www.dailymail.co.uk

Sooo... let me get this straight. As the Taliban were murdering their way through the Afghan Countryside, as the Afghan government was on the brink of collapse, Biden gets of the phone with he Afghan president and talks the the Afghan president about getting the TALIBAN better PR, even if it's false. He's talking political strategy with the guy endanger of being hung... to help Biden politically.

The ONLY reason for that absolute bullshit is if Biden was only looking out for his own hide. The only reason he would have for not being truthful to the American people about who the Taliban actual are is because he needed to paint the picture of the Taliban disaster as some grand Diplomatic process.

I guess he just took for granted that the press would go along and forgot that he just ****ed over a lot of foreign countries as well.

Let's say we knew for certain that the Taliban would defeat the Afghan government, should we have stayed in Afghanistan?

 

[Fishking]

We all knew the Afghan government was weak. But for a variety of reasons that none of us were aware of, we didn't know how weak. Based on twenty years of intelligence failures, it was reasonable to think we had at least a month or two before the government collapsed.

It wasn't intelligence failures. It was bureaucratic failures. There is a difference between actual intel personnel and those who are in management positions, especially at hire levels, and positions that are appointed.

 

[Fishking]

What do you think the material revelation here is? In other words, what new information does this bombshell bring to light?

The bombshell is that it reveals that Biden knew the Afghani security forces were pretty damn weak and that he pressured to their president to put up a smoke screen covering that for political advantage.

 

[Cardinal]

It wasn't intelligence failures. It was bureaucratic failures. There is a difference between actual intel personnel and those who are in management positions, especially at hire levels, and positions that are appointed.

How was it bureaucratic failures? Are you saying that the policies and the intelligence were good, and nobody communicated them up and down the pipeline? I can accept that as a factor, by the way, but I would only add that to policy and intelligence failures, not replace them with it.

 

[American]

What part of this phone call do you think would be considered grounds for impeachment?

Pressuring a foreign leader to lie for the benefit of the United States.

 

[Cardinal]

The bombshell is that it reveals that Biden knew the Afghani security forces were pretty damn weak

That is not a "bombshell." Undiscovered tribes in the Amazon knew that.

and that he pressured to their president to put up a smoke screen covering that for political advantage.

What is wrong with telling the head of the Afghan government to project strength?

 

[Jredbaron96]

Pressuring a foreign leader to lie for the benefit of the United States.

Where does it say that?

"And there’s a need, whether it is true or not, there is a need to project a different picture."

Does not indicate that at all.

 

[roguenuke]

It wasn't intelligence failures. It was bureaucratic failures. There is a difference between actual intel personnel and those who are in management positions, especially at hire levels, and positions that are appointed.

Intelligence came out in June saying that the Afghan government would likely fall to the Taliban as soon as 6 months.

WSJ News Exclusive | Afghan Government Could Collapse Six Months After U.S. Withdrawal, New Intelligence Assessment Says

American intelligence agencies revised their previously more optimistic estimates about the survival of the government of Afghanistan as the Taliban swept through the country’s north last week.

www.wsj.com

Let's try not to rewrite history here.

No one who knows about these things thought it wouldn't fall eventually. That was put out before this phone call.

And even Captain Picard lied about such things when the Federation was losing against the Klingons in an alternate universe. Recognizing why isn't even that hard to figure out, morale.

 

[roguenuke]

Where does it say that?

"And there’s a need, whether it is true or not, there is a need to project a different picture."

Does not indicate that at all.

It's called holding up, maintaining morale. The very last thing you want to do when you are losing a war is to tell your troops, your soldiers "we aren't going to win, this is a lost cause, everyone says so".