Army Officer Who Heard Trump’s Ukraine Call Reported Concerns

[MTAtech]

Oh, so this is the republicant angle? Talk about moving the goal post.

Zelensky doesn't have to agree to it. Jesus christ.

It would be like the bank teller having to "agree" to give the robber money when a gun is pointed at her. The crime is pointing the gun and demanding money.

With Trump, the offense is linking aid to a Biden investigation. No agreement is necessary.

 

[sjmay]

I refute the notion Trump was worried about corruption. That's clearly a CYA after the fact. If Trump -did- care about Corruption, then perhaps he should be phoning Bibi and telling him we can't send them foreign aid due to Bibi's Israeli corruption. Or, how about investigating corruption of UKRAINIANS, not a political rival?

You have a pretty high bar to clear here and we know you can't. Trump was never concerned about corruption. All evidence points to the contrary.

If someone witnesses the mafia extorting a business, is their testimony not evidence now?

What planet do you live on?

Doesn't matter WHAT you refute, it's on record as that being a concern.

 

[Obscurity]

It would be like the bank teller having to "agree" to give the robber money when a gun is pointed at her. The crime is pointing the gun and demanding money.

With Trump, the offense is linking aid to a Biden investigation. No agreement is necessary.

Right. The defense is insane. It's just pooplording at the worst level of indecency at this stage.

These people don't even understand or have the comprehension of what NOT impeaching Trump over this will do, but they would be the FIRST to bitch and whine and squeal and complain if a Democrat did what Trump did. And the republicans would -absolutely- impeach and remove for it.

 

[sjmay]

It would be like the bank teller having to "agree" to give the robber money when a gun is pointed at her. The crime is pointing the gun and demanding money.

With Trump, the offense is linking aid to a Biden investigation. No agreement is necessary.

Agreed, if that was the ONLY link to the aid, I don't think it was, and that is where you are gonna have trouble.

 

[ElChupacabra]

It's further confirmation that Trump committed impeachable offenses, notably abuse of power, in front of witnesses and admitted to it. He did this not just with the Ukraine but also China.

The only question is how can Republican Senators defend this open and shut case of impeachable offenses.

I think they dug themselves a hole with the "no quid pro quo" because we're seeing more evidence that was indeed the case. This went beyond just wanting to investigate corruption as it specifically targeted Biden and his son; the desire to have Zelensky make this announcement publicly makes it even worse. Had Trump and the GOP taken the stance that it was improper but the money was released anyway, would have taken some of the edge of flat out denial. The coverups always make things significantly worse; it also eliminates the incompetence defense.

 

[Obscurity]

Doesn't matter WHAT you refute, it's on record as that being a concern.

No, it's on record AFTER THE FACT.

Jesus christ it's like facts don't exist to you people.

Testimony is evidence.

Multiple people have come forward, almost all of them lifetime military or Trump appointees, saying what POTUS did was quid pro quo with apportioned funds.

Do you seriously want to sit here and tell me those people are less informed than the hollow, worthless millionaire talking heads at fox news or breitbart? Really?

That's the hill you want to die on?

****ing truly pathetic.

 

[SCrider]

I read the transcript. Others opinions are like.... well you know

-VySky

And his professional opinion carries a ton more weight than a RW tool on a message board.

 

[Obscurity]

Agreed, if that was the ONLY link to the aid, I don't think it was, and that is where you are gonna have trouble.

No, no, no.

Trump does NOT get to withhold congressionally apportioned funds, that is an egregious abuse of power AND ignores the constitutional power of the purse, which lays with the legislature.

 

[sjmay]

No, it's on record AFTER THE FACT.

Jesus christ it's like facts don't exist to you people.

Testimony is evidence.

Multiple people have come forward, almost all of them lifetime military or Trump appointees, saying what POTUS did was quid pro quo with apportioned funds.

Do you seriously want to sit here and tell me those people are less informed than the hollow, worthless millionaire talking heads at fox news or breitbart? Really?

That's the hill you want to die on?

****ing truly pathetic.

Really? Sondland's testimony, literally says it was BEFORE the phone call.....BEFORE Ukraine knew aid was being held.....but you talk about facts, go ahead.

 

[sjmay]

No, no, no.

Trump does NOT get to withhold congressionally apportioned funds, that is an egregious abuse of power AND ignores the constitutional power of the purse, which lays with the legislature.

Might want to try that again.

 

[Obscurity]

Really? Sondland's testimony, literally says it was BEFORE the phone call.....BEFORE Ukraine knew aid was being held.....but you talk about facts, go ahead.

Sondland's testimony doesn't make your case better. Apportioned funds were extraconstitutionally withheld by direct order from the president of the US who had his own personal attorney on a mission to get Ukraine to investigate Burisma.

These are known facts. Admitted facts.

Your defense is garbage!

what a joke.

 

[Obscurity]

Might want to try that again.

The power to impound funding was rescinded thanks to Nixon.

Impoundment Control Act of 1974

Better go do some reasearch of your own.

 

[ludin]

Who determined the ellipses?

And let's be totally serious, here. Are you expecting me to believe a document Trump releases?

Given the fact of all the lies of the left so far on pretty much everything they have accused the president of
then why should i doubt trump?

no russia
no obstruction
no quid pro quo.

it is interesting that you believe all the people that have constantly lied and
not only lied but have probably broken some laws in order to try and impeach
a duly elected president.

 

[Taylor]

Oh, so this is the republicant angle? Talk about moving the goal post.

Zelensky doesn't have to agree to it. Jesus christ.

Ah, so there was no quid pro quo.

Thanks.

 

[sjmay]

The power to impound funding was rescinded thanks to Nixon.

Impoundment Control Act of 1974

Better go do some reasearch of your own.

So you are saying, under no circumstance, can the President withold foreign aid....that's what you are going with?

 

[Athanasius68]

No, no, no.

Trump does NOT get to withhold congressionally apportioned funds, that is an egregious abuse of power AND ignores the constitutional power of the purse, which lays with the legislature.

Then why, pray tell, is Mr. Biden also not subject to an impeachment probe? He is on tape celebrating a successful extortion.

 

[Athanasius68]

A full digestion of the evidence shows that:
- Trump made an investigation into Biden a pre-condition to getting military aid, which was only freed up once the whistleblower made a complaint.
- Trump asked China to investigate Biden, with the same motive.
- Trump conditioned having the Ukrainian president meet with Trump on the Biden investigation.

Those are all abuse of power examples.

Except the money was not withheld, the meeting was held, Ukraine received the funds and there was no investigation launched by Ukraine.
Where is the abuse of power?

 

[akyron]

Doesn't sound like there's anything new here. Trump already released the phone transcript.

I read it again to be sure.

The transcript is publicly available.

Corrupt politicians have no choice but to prevent Ukraine scrutiny.

Corruption will come out the closer we look at this.

 

[Gimmesometruth]

Doesn't matter WHAT you refute, it's on record as that being a concern.

Is that the secret "concern", the one he was expressing via his private lawyer, Giuliani, in a non-State Dept channel?

 

[Gimmesometruth]

Except the money was not withheld

Yes it was, Ukraine officials were told to contact Mick to find out why.

 

[Athanasius68]

I don't know how you arrive at that self-serving conclusion. I think it's the opposite. There is overwhelming evidence of high crimes and misdemeanors.

Because the standard for impeachment should overwhelming and incontrovertible, not simply 'maybe.'

 

[Trump]

I don't know how you arrive at that self-serving conclusion. I think it's the opposite. There is overwhelming evidence of high crimes and misdemeanors.

then Pelosi would have already held Impeachment vote.....easy peasey

 

[RAMOSS]

It's already started. The propaganda wing, FOX News, has implied he was acting as a foreign espionage agent against the USA. Go against Trump and you will be attacked in the most vile and disgusting manner possible.

There literally appears to be no limit to what they will do, and it has become obvious that loyalty to Trump is something far different than loyalty to the USA. To imply that an officer in the USA Armed Forces is acting as a foreign agent without a shred of evidence is so heinous, I can't imagine how any American can support such an accusation, or the people and source that made it.



Like the source or not, you can watch the FOX News pundits say it:

Fox News Panel Speculates That Alexander Vindman, Latest Trump Impeachment Witness, Committed Espionage

Oh, how nice, they speculate.

 

[Gimmesometruth]

Then why, pray tell, is Mr. Biden also not subject to an impeachment probe? He is on tape celebrating a successful extortion.

He was not brought up on impeachment charges....because....wait for it....it was not a super secret second channel negotiation being hidden from Congress. Top GOP leaders, the WH, all of the western EU leaders and the IMF all wanted Ukraine to fire the foot dragging prosecutor, it was a PUBLICLY KNOWN POLICY.

oh, and it did not violate US code.

 

[Athanasius68]

There are lots of criminals in jail for failed at their attempt at criminality. Trump not getting away with extortion doesn't mitigate his complicity. The facts remain, the White House tried to link getting a meeting between the two presidents and military aid, to the Ukraine trumping up an investigation against Biden. That is confirmed by many witnesses -- including Trump and Mulvaney.

It is simply your argument that Trump's concern about Ukranian corruption is bs.
Don't you see? If this is the standard for impeachment, then every president will be subject to impeachment if it is perceived they might benefit from something.
It's absurd.