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Army Basic Training no longer works

Rexedgar said:
What is it that ‘we’ don’t ‘suck’ at?
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The list keeps getting shorter as we fail as a society.

I mean that is how it goes, till/unless we decide to be better.
 
Hawkeye10 said:
If Reagan the actor could manage surely Obama the professor could do it...if he had been smart enough to figure things out...... and honorable enough to do the right thing. Thanks for the advice but I am taking a pass.
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Ahhh yes, all hail Reagan, he didn't do this to 'fix' the military, he did this to support a massive spending spree for 'right' minded industries. Let's not forget the completely different economy we had before Reagan.

Under him we went from the biggest CREDITOR nation to the biggest DEBTOR nation... :doh

After the YUGE spending spree by BushII and then the biggest collapse of our economy since the Great Depression Obama didn't have the luxury of such spending on the military.

I do note you seem only to blame Obama when more open minded folks see the trend starting long before him and exacerbated under BushII. Gotta love a partisan never served opinion on a subject he lacks any experience or understanding about- and refuses to listen to those who do have that experience... :peace
 
notquiteright said:
Ahhh yes, all hail Reagan, he didn't do this to 'fix' the military, he did this to support a massive spending spree for 'right' minded industries. Let's not forget the completely different economy we had before Reagan.

Under him we went from the biggest CREDITOR nation to the biggest DEBTOR nation... :doh

After the YUGE spending spree by BushII and then the biggest collapse of our economy since the Great Depression Obama didn't have the luxury of such spending on the military.

I do note you seem only to blame Obama when more open minded folks see the trend starting long before him and exacerbated under BushII. Gotta love a partisan never served opinion on a subject he lacks any experience or understanding about- and refuses to listen to those who do have that experience... :peace
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Obama had no interest in supporting the military, and I generally agree about Reagan but that does not alter my point that Reagan stepped up and told the country that the military was in trouble because of low quality, so the claim that Presidents never do that so I had no right to expect Obama to tell us that is horse ****.
 
Hawkeye10 said:
Longer than we used to:
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I don't think that is necessary for basic training. That is where you wash out the people who can't make the grade. When I went through there was a few who physically could not make the cut. They had the option of going home game over or going to the fat boy program.

Oh back then we did not need to be PC and fat boy along with a whole lot of other names were acceptable and only the deserving got a trophy. If the shoe fit you got the name and if you excelled you got the trophy. As far as I know we have not lost a battle because the enemy hurt our feeling and called us names. God help us when that day comes.

Anyway. Surely if finding people physically fit enough to pass basic is becoming such a problem then we may have to wash them out or if they are willing move them to a physical fitness and diet program until they are ready to join back into basic. Sort of like a preschool or kindergarten to get them ready for the first grade or basic.

I still think the mental part is the toughest. Everyone is ready until the $$$$ hits the fan. I found out if I was ready after I got out. I never was in combat but I did have a drunk point a gun in my face. That is when you find out if you are ready.
 
PIPEWRENCH said:
I don't think that is necessary for basic training. That is where you wash out the people who can't make the grade. When I went through there was a few who physically could not make the cut. They had the option of going home game over or going to the fat boy program.

Oh back then we did not need to be PC and fat boy along with a whole lot of other names were acceptable and only the deserving got a trophy. If the shoe fit you got the name and if you excelled you got the trophy. As far as I know we have not lost a battle because the enemy hurt our feeling and called us names. God help us when that day comes.

Anyway. Surely if finding people physically fit enough to pass basic is becoming such a problem then we may have to wash them out or if they are willing move them to a physical fitness and diet program until they are ready to join back into basic. Sort of like a preschool or kindergarten to get them ready for the first grade or basic.

I still think the mental part is the toughest. Everyone is ready until the $$$$ hits the fan. I found out if I was ready after I got out. I never was in combat but I did have a drunk point a gun in my face. That is when you find out if you are ready.
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Maybe we need the draft now simply to fill the ranks.

That would go over like a chunk of lead.
 
MrPeanut said:
Recruits will undergo bunk inspections, participate in drill and ceremony competitions and face tests on their knowledge of the Army’s history.

Do they not already do this in the Army?
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They did when I was in. This seems a little odd.
 
Hawkeye10 said:
Maybe we need the draft now simply to fill the ranks.

That would go over like a chunk of lead.
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I never believed in the draft. There are people that will never be a soldier. We all have our strengths and weaknesses. I should not have joined at 17. I was not ready. I grew 4 inches while in the army. some people are fully grown at 16. I finished growing at about 22. That is when I should have joined. I might have stayed in and enjoyed a career as a soldier.

I think one of the biggest problems today is people choose their job in the Army. I think the military should evaluate and let you know where you are needed and what you are qualified for. I should not have been an MP. I should have been in some type of construction. I can build and fix things.
 
PIPEWRENCH said:
I never believed in the draft. There are people that will never be a soldier. We all have our strengths and weaknesses. I should not have joined at 17. I was not ready. I grew 4 inches while in the army. some people are fully grown at 16. I finished growing at about 22. That is when I should have joined. I might have stayed in and enjoyed a career as a soldier.

I think one of the biggest problems today is people choose their job in the Army. I think the military should evaluate and let you know where you are needed and what you are qualified for. I should not have been an MP. I should have been in some type of construction. I can build and fix things.
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The biggest problem I see is that we would be sure to get a whole gang of Chelsea(nee)Bradley Manning's eager to sabotage the works, so would we really come out ahead?

MAYBE we just roll over when the Chinese come for us.

We are such a broken people now.
 
Hawkeye10 said:
The biggest problem I see is that we would be sure to get a whole gang of Chelsea(nee)Bradley Manning's eager to sabotage the works, so would we really come out ahead?

MAYBE we just roll over when the Chinese come for us.

We are such a broken people now.
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I still think there are a lot of wolves in this country. I think most of the sheep live in nice homes in select suburbs. I think you still have a lot of tough people living in the concrete jungles of our urban areas as well as the country. I think we get too much perspective from the Leave it to Beaver type that Hollywood portrays when in reality not many of us actually live that life.
 
"...incorporate shooting with iron sights" ?
This is some new innovative training technique now.
(passing out on the floor, speechless)
 
PIPEWRENCH said:
I still think there are a lot of wolves in this country. I think most of the sheep live in nice homes in select suburbs. I think you still have a lot of tough people living in the concrete jungles of our urban areas as well as the country. I think we get too much perspective from the Leave it to Beaver type that Hollywood portrays when in reality not many of us actually live that life.
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The heroin argues otherwise, you are aware.

We have 9 year olds doing suicide now because someone said something mean to them.



...
 
Risky Thicket said:
From the article: "Through the past three years, the Army polled more than 27,000 of its noncommissioned officers, warrant officers and officers in the ranks of second lieutenant to colonel, asking them to identify deficiencies they have observed among the service’s newest soldiers."

This is fake news. No one, no one, no one in the military, no veteran, ever asked for or wanted the opinion of a second lieutenant. Never happened.
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The most dangerous thing on earth.....a second LT with a map, a radio, and a plan.
 
Hawkeye10 said:
The heroin argues otherwise, you are aware.

We have 9 year olds doing suicide now because someone said something mean to them.



...
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ohferchristake.
 
Grand Mal said:
ohferchristake.
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That is what I say....America is not well these days....and I know that you know it too.

The military does not recruit as much intellectual capital in its officer corps as it once did. Work by Everett S.P. Spain, now a colonel on the United States Military Academy faculty and once a graduate student at Harvard Business School, shows that the promotion and selection system is systematically biased against those with high cognitive abilities. Joining with J.D. Mohundro and Bernard B. Banks in Parameters, Spain showed that the Army is much more likely to select low cognitive ability officers over their high cognitive ability peers. “[O]fficers with one-standard-deviation higher cognitive abilities had 29 percent, 18 percent, and 32 percent lower odds, respectively, of being selected early to major, early to lieutenant colonel, and for battalion command than their one-standard deviation lower cognitive-ability peers.”
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You aren?t wrong: Our military officers actually seem to be getting stoopider – Foreign Policy

Some may wonder how the military could be declining in average intelligence, especially in its officer corps, when a large percentage of mid-career and senior officers now possess advanced degrees. Much of the increase in graduate education can be accounted for through degree-granting service schools such as the Air War College or Army War College. The rise of schools that grant college credit for military experience or training also plays a role. Meanwhile, the percentage of new brigadier generals who earned a degree through a civilian graduate school declined over the last two decades
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This is America.

We need to wake the **** up.
 
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jet57 said:
That's a symptom of the millennials, employers are saying the same things, so it has nothing to do with Obama.
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Basic Training is the process of breaking down a civilian and building a solder, always nasty work but it must be done.

Obama gave up.
 
Hawkeye10 said:
Obama had no interest in supporting the military, and I generally agree about Reagan but that does not alter my point that Reagan stepped up and told the country that the military was in trouble because of low quality, so the claim that Presidents never do that so I had no right to expect Obama to tell us that is horse ****.
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No Reagan said we had to defeat the E-Vile by spending like it was found money- and ran up a national debt!

Oh you have every right to expect or not- called freedom of speech that men other than you or Reagan stood up to defend.

Fact is the military under any of these Presidents did their job, what some highly partisan never served people think should have been done doesn't factor in 2 mils Less than one degree to those who don't know mils...

The military isn't low quality- it fought wars as best as the NATION (include congress here) supported them to do the mission assigned. The military can always 'be better' but who pays for the 'upgrade'? I don't see Trump paying for anything (or Mexico for that matter)

Internal matters- discipline, training fall directly in the Military's lap. Imagine the rabid right response if Obama had called the generals out on discipline and how to train the recruits- "Leave it to the experts to handle- THEY know what they need!!!!!"

But to bottom line- the new 'get tough' puffery talk, most recruits will see an M4 twice a year for a few hours while then 'qualify' on a 25 meter course... :roll:

More discipline sounds good, a reconfigured promotion path so actual leaders advance and 4th POC kissers would be better but through no fault of any President our military is morphing into a corporate system. Perhaps there will be a bit of a shake-up/shake out but the simple fact is the military really doesn't feel to beholden to the Civilian leadership.

I don't expect you to understand the professional military culture, but that's your right as well... :peace
 
notquiteright said:
No Reagan said we had to defeat the E-Vile by spending like it was found money- and ran up a national debt!

Oh you have every right to expect or not- called freedom of speech that men other than you or Reagan stood up to defend.

Fact is the military under any of these Presidents did their job, what some highly partisan never served people think should have been done doesn't factor in 2 mils Less than one degree to those who don't know mils...

The military isn't low quality- it fought wars as best as the NATION (include congress here) supported them to do the mission assigned. The military can always 'be better' but who pays for the 'upgrade'? I don't see Trump paying for anything (or Mexico for that matter)

Internal matters- discipline, training fall directly in the Military's lap. Imagine the rabid right response if Obama had called the generals out on discipline and how to train the recruits- "Leave it to the experts to handle- THEY know what they need!!!!!"

But to bottom line- the new 'get tough' puffery talk, most recruits will see an M4 twice a year for a few hours while then 'qualify' on a 25 meter course... :roll:

More discipline sounds good, a reconfigured promotion path so actual leaders advance and 4th POC kissers would be better but through no fault of any President our military is morphing into a corporate system. Perhaps there will be a bit of a shake-up/shake out but the simple fact is the military really doesn't feel to beholden to the Civilian leadership.

I don't expect you to understand the professional military culture, but that's your right as well... :peace
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My understanding of military culture is superior to most.
 
Hawkeye10 said:
Basic Training is the process of breaking down a civilian and building a solder, always nasty work but it must be done.

Obama gave up.
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Obama has nothing to do with it and you can't prove that he does. The new generation is lazy, temporary and has a self prescribed sense of entitlement.
 
jet57 said:
Obama has nothing to do with it and you can't prove that he does. The new generation is lazy, temporary and has a self prescribed sense of entitlement.
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Which needs to be trained out of them as best we can and Obama was in charge, thus this is part of his legacy....which is going to suck BTW.
 
Hawkeye10 said:
Which needs to be trained out of them as best we can and Obama was in charge, thus this is part of his legacy....which is going to suck BTW.
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You haven't the slightest idea what you're talking about dude.

Your posts are stupid.
 
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