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Arizona's SB1083

Baralis

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Arizona's next attempt at immigration control? We know the Holder has been fighting AZ tooth and nail over AZ's policies to fight illegal immigration. Will this pass legal mustard? States after all granted the right to form militias in the name of state security. Personally I hope this measure passes and is successful.
 
Thanks for the post. this has not hit our local news yet. Only thing news has presented was the ramblings of a Democrat to overturn SB1070.
 
mike2810 said:
Thanks for the post. this has not hit our local news yet. Only thing news has presented was the ramblings of a Democrat to overturn SB1070.
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Ah, you're from AZ. I used to live there. Much has changed since I left. Most of the conservatives voters there are now potty trained, and there are reports that some of them can even read and write their own names.

AS for SB1070, the business lobbies in that state will quickly render that law ineffectual by getting the legislature to quietly pass sufficient exemptions. It's theoretically impossible for this not to happen, since the GOP voters in the state are too dumb to research what happens in their legislature (most of them don't know how to read, much less use the Internet), and just believe everything rush limbaugh and KFYI radio hosts tell them.

FYI, I actually conducted a door-to-door poll of households in Mesa, AZ, asking the people who answered the door if they heard of "Google". Out of 60 houses, 1 responded "yes."






 

Arizona is actually doing quite well. Budget deficit is gone, will most likely have a budget surplus this year. Amazing that the tourist industry did not collapse.

So go troll another thread. Your response adds nothing to the discussion.

by the way, thank you for leaving Arizona. The State improved with your move. Your post does a disservice to libertarians.
 
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Arizona governor signs bill to authorize state guard

"The bill signed Thursday would authorize an Arizona governor to establish the state guard to protect lives and property. Under the bill, the governor could do that if the National Guard is mobilized for federal duty or "for any reason the governor considers to be necessary."

The Arizona Constitution authorizes a militia, and current state law specifies that the militia consists of the National Guard, the Arizona state guard "when organized" and the "unorganized militia." "

Since the Feds have use the National Guard for supplementing the military, its seems like a reasonalbe approuch for the State to take.
 

It is actually impossible to do a disservice to libertarians. And the thing I remember most about Arizona is the flap over Martin Luther King day, and how they collectively ran with their tails between their legs when the NFL threatened to pull the Super Bowl if they didn't get their act together. An altogether weird state, who's most famous citizen is a neo-Nazi posing as a Sheriff.
 
Unless I'm missing something (which I may well be, I'm just going off the text of the bill) it appears the total budget for this guard is only $1.4 million. That's probably only like maybe 8 people, an office and expenses. And it appears they're just transferring that $1.4 million from their existing immigration enforcement budget, so it most likely isn't actually even an increase of 8 people or whatever, it's probably just changing the name plate outside of an existing office. So, sounds to me like it's just a campaign stunt.

Legally I don't think it's a problem for them to form something like this, but of course it could only operate within the same powers the police currently have in AZ as far as immigration goes.

Bill text- SB1083 - 502R - I Ver
 

So your also are a libertarian who likes to insult rather than debate the topic. Got it.
Actually, it was a weird governor. A struggle with the State legislators over adding a holiday without changing seperate holidays for Washington and Lincolns Bday. In the end the people of Arizona got rid of the Govenor, added MLK and combined Washington/Lincoln into a President day. Arizona became the first and only state to popularly vote for and pass a Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. State Holiday.

But again thank for sharing your thoughts on Arizona and the topic os SB1083. Oh wait, you said nothing about it.
Another troll.
 
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I wonder how long it will be before the pro-illegals start making false claims again on how the new Arizona law is racist?
 
mike2810 said:
Arizona is actually doing quite well.
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AZ's capital, Phoenix, is a crime cesspool, in spite of the state's efforts to rid itself of "illegals". . .

This city is safer than 7% of the cities in the US.

Phoenix crime rates and statistics - NeighborhoodScout
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Compare this to Los Angeles, which has many more undocumented immigrants. . .

This city is safer than 22% of the cities in the US.

Los Angeles crime rates and statistics - NeighborhoodScout
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Pretty much sums it up. LA has more "illegals" than Phoenix but less crime, while Phoenix has less "illegals" than LA but more crime. . .

. . .which effectively refutes AZ's bigoted, mindless assertion that illegals are responsible for all (or most) of the state's crime: the main rationale for its silly law and its loony sheriff that makes Barney Fife look like a Ph. D.
 
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jamesrage said:
I wonder how long it will be before the pro-illegals start making false claims again on how the new Arizona law is racist?
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AZ is the most racist state in the country. I could become governor of AZ by running on a platform of banning tacos.
 

I wish Arizona well in their endeavor to protect their borders. Only thing they're doing wrong is not rounding them up and sending half of them to the Senate wing and half to the House Wing...let them eat in their dining rooms...use their exercise facilities...have access to their healthcare and send our senators and representatives the bill demanding payment.
 

Considering how much taxes "illegals" pay, they should. . .

 

They also banned Mexican-American history classes to keep their culture "pure."
 
solletica said:
They also banned Mexican-American history classes to keep their culture "pure."
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Yeah that one is just disgusting to me. Just outright open bigotry. The pretense that they aren't bigots, they just are super amped up about illegal immigration for some reason can't serve as a cover for that one. Or for the thing where they fired teachers for having hispanic accents. Or the English as a national language stuff... You're right that you could win as governor there on a taco banning platform I'm afraid.

What really differentiates AZ from say CA (which has far more undocumented immigrants and hispanics both total and per capita) in my opinion, isn't that Arizonians are worse people or something. It is that AZ has been transitioning culturally much more rapidly than other states in recent years. In 1990 only 18% of the state's population was hispanic, but now it is 30%. The vast majority of the hispanics are here legally of course. That kind of cultural shift tends to produce a backlash.

It's horrible and pretty tough to watch from the outside, but it also isn't that unusual. Where today CA is very well adjusted to diversity, it hasn't dealt with significant demographic changes any better than AZ is in our history. The last major demographic shift CA had was the dramatic increase in the Asian population around the 1920s. We did all the same kinds of things AZ is. CA passed laws banning more than 2 unrelated people from sleeping in the same room for example. They claimed it was to crack down on opium dens which they pretended were a huge problem in the Asian community, but they actually just used the law to arrest poor Asians that could not afford anything but one room apartments for groups of people. CA banned men wearing a pony tail on the top of their head which was a cultural thing from China. There was a big hysteria in the press about asian men luring white women into opium dens, drugging them and then raping them, but of course that was really just a fiction fueled by racism. Tons of racial profiling and whatnot. Anyways, the point is that it's not really surprising what is going on in AZ. I'd like to think that as a country we learn from these mistakes, but the reality is that we don't.
 
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solletica said:
They also banned Mexican-American history classes to keep their culture "pure."
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From your own link : "The ban specifically prohibits classes which are aimed at ethnic groups or promotes "resentment toward a race or class of people.
So you are for teaching resentment towards a specific race or class of people. Good to know.

So you think schools should exclude some pupils for favor of another becuase of race?
"House Bill 2281 bans classes in kindergarten through 12th grade that promote the overthrow of the U.S. government, promote resentment toward a race or class of people, are designed primarily for pupils of one ethnic group, or advocate ethnic solidarity.

Read more: http://www.azcentral.com/arizonarep...arizona-ethnic-studies-ban.html#ixzz1kUxE19Ad
 
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mike2810 said:
From your own link : "The ban specifically prohibits classes which are aimed at ethnic groups or promotes "resentment toward a race or class of people.
So you are for teaching resentment towards a specific race or class of people. Good to know.
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If we just went with the literal text of laws then there wouldn't have been anything wrong with the literacy tests the south used to prevent blacks from voting either. Nobody is ever going to pass a law just saying "no Mexican stuff is allowed in schools". Obviously they need to at least have some pretense of legitimacy.

IMO with all these things, you shouldn't be thinking "what is the best case scenario for how the government will implement this law if every government official is perfectly wise and kind?", you need to be thinking about "what would happen if the meanest, stupidest, most racist mofo I can imagine got the power this law gives out?" The law is supposed to protect people from government. Laws like this do the opposite.
 

and it is your opinion.

So it is ok for an ethnic class to teach that illegal aliens have a right to be in the US, because it is really Mexico?
Got it tea.
Thought you were going to be a lawyer, the literal text of the law is what lawyers go by right?

So by not responding, I see you feel it is ok to promote resentment in a classroom.
 

So you are worried that Mexican-American school teachers will intentionally teach ethnic hatred, but you aren't at all concerned that other teachers, principles, PTA members, etc, will intentionally implement the law in a way that shows hatred of an ethnicity? Why?
 

we can play this game of debate of not answering.
How is the law showing hatred towards one group?
 
mike2810 said:
we can play this game of debate of not answering.
How is the law showing hatred towards one group?
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Neither cultural studies course nor the law inherently shows hatred towards any group. In both cases, they could be used to do so. A school teacher could use their class to teach kids to hate or somebody could use the law to persecute hispanics and to try to prevent them from learning about their culture.

It seems to me like you're confident the former happens a lot, but not at all concerned about the later. Why?

The later sounds infinitely more plausible to me. There are plenty of people who consider any class that teaches anything about Mexican heritage, for example, to be "teaching resentment". Those people will use this law to deny hispanic kids the opportunity to learn about their cultural heritage. On the other hand a teacher teaching kids to hate... That just sounds awfully far fetched to me. Teachers choose to go into that profession because they care about kids, not because they want to mess them up... I'm sure there are some isolated cases where teachers have done something like that, but no way it will be as common as the numbers of people using this law to shut down normal Mexican-American history courses and whatnot. Given the current attitude about Hispanics in AZ it seems like a pretty safe bet that every single cultural studies course in the state will be attacked at one point or another under this law.

But, even if you don't believe that, do you acknowledge at least that it could be abused just like cultural studies courses could?

Then there is a whole other layer. The right often expresses concern that public schools act as some kind of propaganda machine for the government. Well here you have a case of the government stepping in and telling history teachers that they can't tell the history in a way that the government doesn't like. Do you really support that? Isn't it better to let history teachers teach history rather than the government trying to tell them what aspects of history they should and shouldn't talk about?
 
mike2810 said:
Soll,
Your post is great. I think Arizona would be willing to ship all illegals we have to California. You will be safer.

Yep, California Law Enforcement loves illegal aliens.
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They have to have a job lined up there, so they won't be another uneducated bumkin bitching about how some "illegal dun took my job" and "dem illegals cause all dem crime."
 
solletica said:
They have to have a job lined up there, so they won't be another uneducated bumkin bitching about how some "illegal dun took my job" and "dem illegals cause all dem crime."
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So to come into California one must have job lined up before hand? Please provide evidence of this.
It is telling you did not respond to the link showing California LE beating up an illegal alien.
Your replys indicate your knowledge of the real world. At least tea responds with some resonable responses. May not agree, but at least they are not ramblings..
 

Tea,
I have no problems with ethnic studies being taught. I do have a problem when a course teaches hate and bias like the one Tuscon schools had.
Ariz. DOE Says Tucson Schools' Ethnic Studies Illegal, Orders Funding Cut
"section of the textbook reads, “Today I have a message….to the children, the students, the workers, the masses, and to the bloodsuckers, the parasites, the vampires who are the capitalists of the world: The schools are tools of the power structure that blind and sentence our youth to a life of confusion, and hypocrisy, one that preaches assimilation and practices institutional racism.”

Parents pointed out a number of other controversial books, many of which contained expletives in both Spanish and English.
There was enough parents in the school district that complained that caused the legal actions.

I think it was you in another thread dealing with SB1070 that we have to live with what the courts have decided and the lower courts have struck down part of the law. Well the ethnic study has been through some of the courts and the court decision was the school was in violation of the law. So either they change the course so its in compliance or don't teach it.
 
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