arguments on abortion[W: 246]

[code1211]

Re: arguments on abortion

guess you missed his sarcasm LOL

Guess you missed mine.

 

[code1211]

Re: arguments on abortion

A previable fetus will die if the woman dies no matter how much medical help it recieves.
It is completly dependant on the pregnant woman and only her.
A born baby is not completly depentant on the bio mom.
A doctor or nurse , a grandparent , a caregiver, etc. can hold, fed, and take care of him/her if the mother dies or she she gives him/her up.

That is what is meant when we say ability to live independently or apart (no longer biologically attached ) to the woman.

I don't see how this affect the debate re abortion. Trying to define a point at which a baby is a person is a hard thing to do. There is ideally never a point in a life where a person has ceased growing in one way or another.

 

[Removable Mind]

Re: arguments on abortion

I did not say that abortion is immoral. I said there is no moral justification for abortion absent the many "even if's" that the pro choice folks seem incapable of not presenting as the majority cases. As the law stands today, we as a society have determined that Abortion is an amoral issue.

Do you think that what most people post on opinion boards is fact or opinion?

Lacking a credible statement from you showing that there is a moral justification for abortion, my opinion seems to be on pretty solid ground.

Well, no moral justification according to whose morals?

Yes, there is a moral justification. Any woman who believes that she her choice to abort meets her own personal moral standards...is morally justified. In fact, according to the laws of the land, a woman doesn't have to show moral justification because it's basically nobody's business but her own. She has been granted a right to privacy under the 14th Amendment's "Due Process Clause", but actually it goes much deep than just the 14th Amendment.

 

[AGENT J]

Re: arguments on abortion

1.)I did not say that abortion is immoral. I said there is no moral justification for abortion absent the many "even if's" that the pro choice folks seem incapable of not presenting as the majority cases. As the law stands today, we as a society have determined that Abortion is an amoral issue.

2.)Do you think that what most people post on opinion boards is fact or opinion?

3.)Lacking a credible statement from you showing that there is a moral justification for abortion, my opinion seems to be on pretty solid ground.

1.) an this statment is only your opinion, what dont you get?
2.) thers no right answer it depends on the topic and what it is, but you were pushing your opinion as fact and you were wrong
3.) LMAO so your OPINION backed up by your OPINION means your OPINION is sound?

thats funny, weird the people that disagree with you can say the exact same thing

sorry you have been proven wrong :shrug:

 

[AGENT J]

Re: arguments on abortion

you say there no moral reason for it, thats your opinion and nothing more.

i was only pointing that fact out, and you keep denying it, no twist, just facts.

 

[AGENT J]

Re: arguments on abortion

Guess you missed mine.

nice try LMAO

 

[AGENT J]

Re: arguments on abortion

Well, no moral justification according to whose morals?

Yes, there is a moral justification. Any woman who believes that she her choice to abort meets her own personal moral standards...is morally justified. In fact, according to the laws of the land, a woman doesn't have to show moral justification because it's basically nobody's business but her own. She has been granted a right to privacy under the 14th Amendment's "Due Process Clause", but actually it goes much deep than just the 14th Amendment.

exactly some how he thinks his opinion is more than only opinion.

 

[minnie616]

Re: arguments on abortion

I don't see how this affect the debate re abortion. Trying to define a point at which a baby is a person is a hard thing to do. There is ideally never a point in a life where a person has ceased growing in one way or another.

upon birth the "life" is a person, after viability it becomes a potential person and the states may take a compelling interest and limit abortions except in cases where the woman's life or health is at risk if the pregnancy were to continue.

 

[choiceone]

Re: arguments on abortion

I don't see how this affect the debate re abortion. Trying to define a point at which a baby is a person is a hard thing to do. There is ideally never a point in a life where a person has ceased growing in one way or another.

You are missing the fact that, for any pro-choice person, a person has a completely distinct formal boundary around himself/herself. Pro-choice people are like the guy in biology lab who, as we watched the process of one cell dividing in two, did not believe that there were two cells when they could see two partial cells or even two separate nuclei. They were like the ones who waited until there was no shared point on the cell membrane. For genuine pro-choicers, even those like minnie who accept the RvW concept of viability and its relation to possible state restrictions on abortion, it is not possible for a fetus to be a person: it has to come out of the woman's body in order to be one - though I suspect she might admit it's a person before the cord is cut.

 

[code1211]

Re: arguments on abortion

Well, no moral justification according to whose morals?

Yes, there is a moral justification. Any woman who believes that she her choice to abort meets her own personal moral standards...is morally justified. In fact, according to the laws of the land, a woman doesn't have to show moral justification because it's basically nobody's business but her own. She has been granted a right to privacy under the 14th Amendment's "Due Process Clause", but actually it goes much deep than just the 14th Amendment.

You have stated my position that was opposed perfectly.

He was saying that my characterization of Abortion on demand as being a choice based on convenience was not appropriate.

You seem to agree that it is.

 

[code1211]

Re: arguments on abortion

1.) an this statment is only your opinion, what dont you get?
2.) thers no right answer it depends on the topic and what it is, but you were pushing your opinion as fact and you were wrong
3.) LMAO so your OPINION backed up by your OPINION means your OPINION is sound?

thats funny, weird the people that disagree with you can say the exact same thing

sorry you have been proven wrong :shrug:

Fine. I will accept that I am wrong.

Now, please propose the moral justification for abortion.

Why are you so hung up on a semantic game of twister? Address the topic at hand.

 

[code1211]

Re: arguments on abortion

you say there no moral reason for it, thats your opinion and nothing more.

i was only pointing that fact out, and you keep denying it, no twist, just facts.

I will assume that you are addressing me.

I will stipulate that I am wrong if that will allow you to discuss the topic at hand.

Please present the moral justification of Abortion.

 

[code1211]

Re: arguments on abortion

nice try LMAO

I'm glad you're happy.

Please present the moral justification of Abortion.

 

[code1211]

Re: arguments on abortion

upon birth the "life" is a person, after viability it becomes a potential person and the states may take a compelling interest and limit abortions except in cases where the woman's life or health is at risk if the pregnancy were to continue.

I am not discussing outlawing or limiting any aspect of or access to abortion.

I am discussing only the morality or lack of morality in this practice.

 

[AGENT J]

Re: arguments on abortion

1.)Fine. I will accept that I am wrong.

Now, please propose the moral justification for abortion.

Why are you so hung up on a semantic game of twister? Address the topic at hand.

1.) good boy
2.) I already did multiple times
3.) not semantics, ACCURACY and FACTS. HUGE difference.

 

[AGENT J]

Re: arguments on abortion

I will assume that you are addressing me.

I will stipulate that I am wrong if that will allow you to discuss the topic at hand.

Please present the moral justification of Abortion.

again , me and other posters already have multiple times, go back and read read them

 

[AGENT J]

Re: arguments on abortion

i'm glad you're happy.

Please present the moral justification of abortion.

done :d

 

[code1211]

Re: arguments on abortion

1.) good boy
2.) I already did multiple times
3.) not semantics, ACCURACY and FACTS. HUGE difference.

And the moral justification for Abortion?

 

[code1211]

Re: arguments on abortion

again , me and other posters already have multiple times, go back and read read them

You have not, but you are free to believe that you did.

 

[code1211]

Re: arguments on abortion

done :d

Still missing.

 

[AGENT J]

Re: arguments on abortion

You have not, but you are free to believe that you did.

well you are either lying or simply didnt read the thread :shrug:
sorry this thread proves you factually wrong

 

[minnie616]

Re: arguments on abortion

I am not discussing outlawing or limiting any aspect of or access to abortion.

I am discussing only the morality or lack of morality in this practice.

I believe that " The right of an individual to make their own choice about whether or not they will offer their body in the support of another organism is a moral good.'
From this article:

Abortion is a Moral Good


The right of an individual to make their own choice about whether or not they will offer their body in the support of another organism is a moral good. The individual making a choice which will be most beneficial to them is a moral good, whether that choice is abortion or birth or both (and most women who have abortions, it should be noted, make different choices at different times in their lives). The abortion procedure itself, like most other medical procedures, is a moral good. And like most other medical procedures, it is bad when done without consent, or when coercive. As is childbirth.

Abortion is a Moral Good

 

[code1211]

Re: arguments on abortion

I believe that " The right of an individual to make their own choice about whether or not they will offer their body in the support of another organism is a moral good.'
From this article:


Abortion is a Moral Good

This considers only one life in the example. In any abortion, there are two lives. Any moral choice that injures or more must considered at least suspect and probably corrupt. The individual that makes the decision is the only one that has a voice in this. That individual in most cases did not find herself in that position through no prior decision on her part.

When the Individual in the quote you posted is in a position to "to make their own choice about whether or not they will offer their body in the support of another organism", are we to accept that the "organism" could be anything but a person?

The quote also goes on to say that the "individual" is the sole arbiter of the Humanity or lack thereof of the "organism". The quote says clearly that the goodness or badness of the act is based solely on the whim of the individual. The motivation is unquestioned.

 

[AGENT J]

Re: arguments on abortion

This considers only one life in the example. In any abortion, there are two lives. Any moral choice that injures or more must considered at least suspect and probably corrupt. The individual that makes the decision is the only one that has a voice in this. That individual in most cases did not find herself in that position through no prior decision on her part.

When the Individual in the quote you posted is in a position to "to make their own choice about whether or not they will offer their body in the support of another organism", are we to accept that the "organism" could be anything but a person?

The quote also goes on to say that the "individual" is the sole arbiter of the Humanity or lack thereof of the "organism". The quote says clearly that the goodness or badness of the act is based solely on the whim of the individual. The motivation is unquestioned.

Translation: your opinion disagrees with others opinion so some how you are trying to magically declare your opinion on MORALS is some how more factual

FAIL


like you were told, any opinion you have on morals is just that. OPINION

and the fact remains many people feel obligated by their responsibilities and morals TO abort. They are no more right or wrong than you are for not aborting :shrug:

 

[code1211]

Re: arguments on abortion

Translation: your opinion disagrees with others opinion so some how you are trying to magically declare your opinion on MORALS is some how more factual

FAIL


like you were told, any opinion you have on morals is just that. OPINION

and the fact remains many people feel obligated by their responsibilities and morals TO abort. They are no more right or wrong than you are for not aborting :shrug:

So, for you, is this is a completely amoral consideration?