Are you pro-union?

[Airyaman]

From the Teamsters president's speech and this tweet, I thought about this topic.



Now I'm not here to discuss whether you agree or not that Kinzinger is a "real Republican" but he is right in my recollection of Republican politics. Most republicans I have known are not pro-union and many are very anti-union. I myself, a former republican, am not pro-union. I get why people believe they are necessary, and for some companies they might be necessary, so I am not anti-union. My stance comes from 10 years as a union employee; my experience is that unions breed mediocrity in employees. I can't tell you how many bad coworkers I had that didn't care because they felt protected by the union.

So what is your stance? Pro-union? Not? Anti?

 

[Manc Skipper]

Definitely pro, even for the relatively weak US unions.

What Unions Have Done For You - UFCW Local 1500

Learn what all unions have done for you

www.ufcw1500.org

 

[Irredentist]

From the Teamsters president's speech and this tweet, I thought about this topic.



Now I'm not here to discuss whether you agree or not that Kinzinger is a "real Republican" but he is right in my recollection of Republican politics. Most republicans I have known are not pro-union and many are very anti-union. I myself, a former republican, am not pro-union. I get why people believe they are necessary, and for some companies they might be necessary, so I am not anti-union. My stance comes from 10 years as a union employee; my experience is that unions breed mediocrity in employees. I can't tell you how many bad coworkers I had that didn't care because they felt protected by the union.

So what is your stance? Pro-union? Not? Anti?

Unions are great! You shouldn't have to provide stellar work in order to be well paid. Mediocre work should be enough.

 

[Airyaman]

Unions are great! You shouldn't have to provide stellar work in order to be well paid. Mediocre work should be enough.

I had a coworker who would literally sleep on the job and miss about 1/3 of the year for absences. Several other coworkers were horrible employees who would not last 3 days in a non-union shop. But bosses were all scared to do anything because of the union.

 

[The Mark]

From the Teamsters president's speech and this tweet, I thought about this topic.



Now I'm not here to discuss whether you agree or not that Kinzinger is a "real Republican" but he is right in my recollection of Republican politics. Most republicans I have known are not pro-union and many are very anti-union. I myself, a former republican, am not pro-union. I get why people believe they are necessary, and for some companies they might be necessary, so I am not anti-union. My stance comes from 10 years as a union employee; my experience is that unions breed mediocrity in employees. I can't tell you how many bad coworkers I had that didn't care because they felt protected by the union.

So what is your stance? Pro-union? Not? Anti?

Generally speaking, unions are neither Democrat nor Republican, and have members in both parties.

I assume they are speaking because they want to tell the GOP the position of their union on various things.

 

[The Mark]

I had a coworker who would literally sleep on the job and miss about 1/3 of the year for absences. Several other coworkers were horrible employees who would not last 3 days in a non-union shop. But bosses were all scared to do anything because of the union.

I have to imagine that they were as much of a pain for their co-workers as the company, so why did the union protect them?

Was it just a matter of not wanting to give the employer the satisfaction, or that if they caved on that they might be pushed further?

 

[Airyaman]

Generally speaking, unions are neither Democrat nor Republican, and have members in both parties.

I assume they are speaking because they want to tell the GOP the position of their union on various things.

Not really the topic of discussion, more to gauge the truthfulness of Kinzinger's statement.

 

[Torus34]

A simple question. Absent unions, what other function in our society is able to counter the ability of corporations to suppress wages and worker benefits?

Regards, stay safe 'n well . . . informed.

 

[Airyaman]

I have to imagine that they were as much of a pain for their co-workers as the company, so why did the union protect them?

Was it just a matter of not wanting to give the employer the satisfaction, or that if they caved on that they might be pushed further?

Not really sure of the motive. I never filed a grievance or had issues with work, and was one of the better employees (I was raised with a certain work ethic) so I kind of ignored the union as an employee, and didn't need that protection. And tbh, I fault the bosses for not wanting to take the time to document the issues with the bad employees because they could have made cases against them if they tried. I suppose they felt it was more headaches to take on the union than it was worth so just looked the other way.

 

[Toggle Almendro]

I'm a Democrat and I have mixed feelings so I'm not sure what to choose in the poll.

I don't like that unions are so violent, and I think the government really needs to crack down on union violence.

But I like the idea of workers being protected.

 

[Irredentist]

I had a coworker who would literally sleep on the job and miss about 1/3 of the year for absences. Several other coworkers were horrible employees who would not last 3 days in a non-union shop. But bosses were all scared to do anything because of the union.

Bosses should be scared of the union, that's the whole point. But the kind of behavior you describe goes well beyond mediocrity. There are still ways to discipline problematic employees, even at a union job.

 

[Loulit01]

You load 16 tons, what do you get?
Another day older and deeper in debt
St. Peter, don't you call me 'cause I can't go
I owe my soul to the company store

That's true. Coal companies would pay miners in company scrip. House them in company houses. Only store was the company store.

Everyone knows about the Triangle Shirtwaist Factory fire. There was a factory in NJ that painted glow in the dark numbers on clock faces. Radium made them glow. The workers, women all, would lick the brush to get a fine point, dip it in the radium...

There are horror stories without end. And if you think abuse can't happen today, you have another think coming.

Unions exist because they are necessary. Hell, 15th century Europe had trade guilds.

 

[Loulit01]

I'm a Democrat and I have mixed feelings so I'm not sure what to choose in the poll.

I don't like that unions are so violent, and I think the government really needs to crack down on union violence.

But I like the idea of workers being protected.

Do you have an example of union violence in recent memory?

 

[spud_meister]

Unions are great! You shouldn't have to provide stellar work in order to be well paid. Mediocre work should be enough.

Is that like how CEO's get million dollar payouts when companies fail? What's their union?

 

[Airyaman]

Bosses should be scared of the union, that's the whole point. But the kind of behavior you describe goes well beyond mediocrity. There are still ways to discipline problematic employees, even at a union job.

Let me be more specific as to my statement of "breeding mediocrity". In at least the unions I experienced, people with the same job made the same pay. For instance, when I started out, I was in a lab. All of the lab workers made the same wage. There was no incentive to do a good job or disincentive to do poorly. I did not understand that coming in, so based on my own personal work ethic, I did the best job I could. I was not rewarded with a raise or a bonus for doing well, and as I said, the woman who slept in the corner made the exact same pay I did. What did end up happening is that the bosses started to rely on me to do many things the bad workers would or could not do. Yet, they still made the same pay.

One night I came into work and one of the pieces of lab equipment was not working properly. When that happens, you were supposed to call the supervisor, and he is supposed to come out and address the problem. They did that. Know what the supervisor said to them? "Is Airyaman (not my real name) there? He can fix it." Yes, I could. Not because it was my job but because I learned how to do it on my own because it saved time and I liked learning these things. But I still made the same money as the other people who didn't care. Now, it wasn't their job to fix it either, so no fault there, but nobody really had real incentive to excel at their work because there was no motive.

 

[bongsaway]

From the Teamsters president's speech and this tweet, I thought about this topic.



Now I'm not here to discuss whether you agree or not that Kinzinger is a "real Republican" but he is right in my recollection of Republican politics. Most republicans I have known are not pro-union and many are very anti-union. I myself, a former republican, am not pro-union. I get why people believe they are necessary, and for some companies they might be necessary, so I am not anti-union. My stance comes from 10 years as a union employee; my experience is that unions breed mediocrity in employees. I can't tell you how many bad coworkers I had that didn't care because they felt protected by the union.

So what is your stance? Pro-union? Not? Anti?

I worked in a union shop in Philly and they were some of the hardest workers I've had the pleasure to work with. I used to joke with one of the foreman's, you trying to kill us he worked us so hard. In a non union workplace, you have zero say. Unions also pay much better. How can you be anti union if you are a working person?

 

[Toggle Almendro]

Do you have an example of union violence in recent memory?

Depends on what you consider recent. I am aware of one about 35 years ago. I don't feel like sharing though.

 

[Loulit01]

Depends on what you consider recent. I am aware of one about 35 years ago. I don't feel like sharing though.

So no, no examples. You made a big enough deal about union violence in your post. But there is none is there?

 

[NWRatCon]

Do you have an example of union violence in recent memory?

Why provide examples when one can just make shit up?

 

[Airyaman]

I worked in a union shop in Philly and they were some of the hardest workers I've had the pleasure to work with. I used to joke with one of the foreman's, you trying to kill us he worked us so hard. In a non union workplace, you have zero say. Unions also pay much better. How can you be anti union if you are a working person?

Do you believe they were hard workers because of a personal work ethic or was it something the union incentivized in them?

 

[bongsaway]

Let me be more specific as to my statement of "breeding mediocrity". In at least the unions I experienced, people with the same job made the same pay. For instance, when I started out, I was in a lab. All of the lab workers made the same wage. There was no incentive to do a good job or disincentive to do poorly. I did not understand that coming in, so based on my own personal work ethic, I did he best job I could. I was not rewarded with a raise or a bonus for doing well, and as I said, the woman who slept in the corner made the exact same pay I did. What did end up happening is that the bosses started to rely on me to do many things the bad workers would or could not do. Yet, they still made the same pay.

One night I came into work and one of the pieces of lab equipment was not working properly. When that happens, you were supposed to call the supervisor, and he is supposed to come out and address the problem. They did that. Know what the supervisor said to them? "Is Airyaman (not my real name) there? He can fix it." Yes, I could. Not because it was my job but because I learned how to do it on my own because it saved time and I liked learning these things. But I still made the same money as the other people who didn't care. Now, it wasn't their job to fix it either, so no fault there, but nobody really had real incentive to excel at their work because there was no motive.

I don't know of any job that I've had in my life that gave me any incentive to do 'the best' I could. In a non union job, the same crap would have happened to you, the bosses all know who the good workers are and depend on them. I had a great work ethic driven into me by my father who told me the only good reason to miss work is because you're dead. He was always early to work and did his best, he passed that along to me.

 

[NWRatCon]

I worked in a union shop in Philly and they were some of the hardest workers I've had the pleasure to work with. I used to joke with one of the foreman's, you trying to kill us he worked us so hard. In a non union workplace, you have zero say. Unions also pay much better. How can you be anti union if you are a working person?

Your question answers itself.... "working person".

 

[bongsaway]

Do you believe they were hard workers because of a personal work ethic or was it something the union incentivized in them?

It's work, why do you keep talking about incentive? Most people can't stand their jobs because they are dull and boring with zero incentive. Unions don't turn people into lazy bums, they were more than likely that way before joining a union. If I judged everyone on my work ethic, most would fail union or no union.

 

[NWRatCon]

I don't know of any job that I've had in my life that gave me any incentive to do 'the best' I could.

The Army. The incentive was staying alive and completing the mission. RW/No BS.

(As an armor crewman, and later, TC, I worked in the motor pool, even though it was not my job, so I could learn the details of every part of the tanks I was assigned to - because in the field, my crewmates and I would depend upon that equipment for our very lives. Pretty good incentive. )

 

[Toggle Almendro]

So no, no examples.

I said that I could think of one.

You made a big enough deal about union violence in your post. But there is none is there?

Unions are a violent scourge against the American people.