Are you happy that your mother decided NOT to Abort YOU !! [W:197, 1025]

[blarg]

Yes, because that's what animals are there for...slaughter. In fact, that's why we bother breeding them.

so then its hard to see what's wrong with killing a human that's only an animal before its mind develops to the point where its a person

 

[law]

so then its hard to see what's wrong with killing a human that's only an animal before its mind develops to the point where its a person

But that would also include young babies and toddlers. I'm sure that wasn't your intention.

 

[blarg]

But that would also include young babies and toddlers. I'm sure that wasn't your intention.

its unpleasant but other then the risk of killing some one to late after they have exceeded animal intelligence its hard to see that as murder either

alternatively we might have to give human rights to some critters to

 

[Removable Mind]

and the biblical god certainly has no problem slaughtering all kinds of them left and right

Ramfel and his peers will admit that free will is the providence of god. And they claim that god intervenes and imposes his own will.

AND THEN...

There are people who claim to know the difference between free will and god's will. They are basically claiming to understand the mind and will of god. They know what god's plan is at any given moment in time. They know when god changes the plan. They know when prayers are answered and denied by god. They know each and every time god intervenes in human events.

How lucky these people are. But if I were a betting person, I'd bet that Ramfel isn't one of these people. That he can't distinguish between human free will and god's will. He doesn't know what god's plan is or isn't. In other words, abortions could well be an act of god.

 

[law]

its unpleasant but other then the risk of killing some one to late after they have exceeded animal intelligence its hard to see that as murder either

alternatively we might have to give human rights to some critters to

Excuse me?

 

[blarg]

Excuse me?

what?

 

[Scrabaholic]

But abortion is killing, isn't it? And if he says do not kill, I take it on faith that he includes abortion.

You are wrong again.

Eating meat is killing. If you eat meat, then you are violating that command, too. Which makes you no better than those you condemn.

 

[Scrabaholic]

Playing dumb again, I see.

Are you capable of debating without insulting your opponent?

 

[Scrabaholic]

I know fact. You don't.

Now, that's a fact.

Keep telling yourself that.....

 

[Peter King]

This makes about as much sense as your question in the OP...and your conclusion is just as nonsensical.

God's Law is based on faith, American law is based on our legal system. & the Constitution.

No one in America is bound by God's Law....just the American legal system. I know you know this.....so when you say you are using facts, it demonstrates sad, blind denial, not lack of knowlege.

Just like you cant figure out that if someone is happy they were born, they'd want everyone else to be born too. Certainly more logical than your silly conclusion that if you where happy you were born, you'd think it was just fine to 'kill the unborn now that you were safe.' How you ever came up with that, I'll never know. Just blindly agenda-driven I guess.

If people want to live according to god's law, I don't have a problem with that at all, except if that lifestyle breaks the civil liberties, civil rights of people who do not want to live according to god's laws or if these godly laws break the actual laws of the US (or whatever other country these people choose to live in).

Also, if they want to live according to god's laws then so be it, but do not try to force other people to live according to god's laws even though they are in breach of the real laws or civil rights.

If you do not want to have an abortion fine, but you have no right to decide that someone else should also not have an abortion because of what you think.

The same goes for gay wedding, interracial marriage, race, etc. etc. etc. etc.

 

[Scrabaholic]

Even creatures don't object to killing and eating creatures. The only ones that care about animals are crackpot veggies and vegans.

Incorrect. Lots of people who eat meat care about animals.

 

[Lursa]

OK, here's a fact. God says he doesn't want you to kill anyone.

So again you are wrong.

It's murder.

God. Not your law. Gods.

Fact can be proven. Please prove that God said that.

 

[Lursa]

See what I mean?

Nope, you make no sense.

 

[RamFel]

Nope, you make no sense.

Oh yes I do.

 

[RamFel]

It seems that you're mainly the person who is wrong in this forum...and as it relates to reproduction vs human sexual behaviors.

Yes, I seem to be, but looks and perception can be very deceiving.

 

[Peter King]

OK, here's a fact. God says he doesn't want you to kill anyone.

So again you are wrong.

It's murder.

God. Not your law. Gods.

You have to be kidding me?

Leviticus 20:9 For every one that curseth his father or his mother shall be surely put to death

Leviticus 20:10 And the man that committeth adultery with another man's wife, even he that committeth adultery with his neighbour's wife, the adulterer and the adulteress shall surely be put to death.

Leviticus 20:11 And the man that lieth with his father's wife hath uncovered his father's nakedness: both of them shall surely be put to death

Leviticus 20:12 And if a man lie with his daughter in law, both of them shall surely be put to death

Leviticus 20:13 If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death

Leviticus 20:13 If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death

Leviticus 20:15 And if a man lie with a beast, he shall surely be put to death: and ye shall slay the beast

Leviticus 20:16 And if a woman approach unto any beast, and lie down thereto, thou shalt kill the woman, and the beast: they shall surely be put to death

Leviticus 20:27 A man also or woman that hath a familiar spirit, or that is a wizard, shall surely be put to death: they shall stone them with stones

Leviticus 21:9 And the daughter of any priest, if she profane herself by playing the whore, she profaneth her father: she shall be burnt with fire.

Leviticus 24:16 And he that blasphemeth the name of the LORD, he shall surely be put to death, and all the congregation shall certainly stone him


Then we are not even talking about lying about virginity, daughters of priests who go into prostitution, raping a virgin, rape of an engaged virgin, rape victims for not having screamed enough, worshiping idols, breaking the sabbath, practicing magic, being a medium/spiritualist, trying to convert people to another religion (except of course if you are trying to convert them to christianity I would assume), apostasy (in this case, kill people if they live in a town in which most believe in a different god, kill the everybody, woman and children included and even the animals in that town after which you burn it to the ground), being a false prophet, striking your parents, cursing your parents, perjury, ignoring the verdict of a judge/priest, not penning up a dangerous bull if he kills someone, living in a city that did not surrender to the Israelites, etc.


God says he does not want you to kill anybody? That is a joke right? Who do you think kills someone who curses at the parents according to that law of god according to you? The magic execution angels? The executioner leprechauns? The little green men who the pope would not mind baptizing? Tell me who shall kill these people who have sinned according to god's laws?

He would love you to kill whole scores of people, he has given you a whole host of excuses you can go out and kill people. How about murdering the entire population of Hollywood? They are a bunch of atheist god haters who surely fall into the category of a city where most have fallen victim to apostasy? Kill all the scientology followers because they believe in thetans.

 

[RamFel]

Fact can be proven. Please prove that God said that.

Now why did you go and ask me to prove it? Don't you know I can prove it? You already know the answer:

The Ten Commandments (Exodus 20:2-17 NKJV)
1 “I am the Lord your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage. You shall have no other gods before Me.

2 “You shall not make for yourself a carved image, or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth; you shall not bow down to them nor serve them. For I, the Lord your God, am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children to the third and fourth generations of those who hate Me, but showing mercy to thousands, to those who love Me and keep My Commandments.

3 “You shall not take the name of the Lord your God in vain, for the Lord will not hold him guiltless who takes His name in vain.

4 “Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. Six days you shall labor and do all your work, but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord your God. In it you shall do no work: you, nor your son, nor your daughter, nor your male servant, nor your female servant, nor your cattle, nor your stranger who is within your gates. For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and hallowed it.

5 “Honor your father and your mother, that your days may be long upon the land which the Lord your God is giving you.
6 “You shall not murder.
7 “You shall not commit adultery.
8 “You shall not steal.
9 “You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.
10 “You shall not covet your neighbor's house; you shall not covet your neighbor's wife, nor his male servant, nor his female servant, nor his ox, nor his donkey, nor anything that is your neighbor's.”




Now, don't you feel silly?

 

[Removable Mind]

If people want to live according to god's law, I don't have a problem with that at all, except if that lifestyle breaks the civil liberties, civil rights of people who do not want to live according to god's laws or if these godly laws break the actual laws of the US (or whatever other country these people choose to live in).

Also, if they want to live according to god's laws then so be it, but do not try to force other people to live according to god's laws even though they are in breach of the real laws or civil rights.

If you do not want to have an abortion fine, but you have no right to decide that someone else should also not have an abortion because of what you think.

The same goes for gay wedding, interracial marriage, race, etc. etc. etc. etc.

Touché, PK.

Choice works for everybody - as long as every individual chooses to not infringe on the rights of their fellow citizens. It's really a simple concept that's apparently too difficult for some to grasp.

 

[Slyhunter]

Who gives a **** what an imaginary god thinks. Nature itself made it so that the primary purpose for sex is to procreate. And I personally believe that all intelligent life should be protected, including the unborn, unless there is a good reason like a genetic defect.

If we don't protect the least among us what will happen when we encounter alien civilizations more intelligent then us? I say treat the unborn exactly the same as you'd want an higher alien civilization to treat ourselves.

 

[Removable Mind]

Now why did you go and ask me to prove it? Don't you know I can prove it? You already know the answer:

The Ten Commandments (Exodus 20:2-17 NKJV)
1 “I am the Lord your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage. You shall have no other gods before Me.

2 “You shall not make for yourself a carved image, or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth; you shall not bow down to them nor serve them. For I, the Lord your God, am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children to the third and fourth generations of those who hate Me, but showing mercy to thousands, to those who love Me and keep My Commandments.

3 “You shall not take the name of the Lord your God in vain, for the Lord will not hold him guiltless who takes His name in vain.

4 “Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. Six days you shall labor and do all your work, but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord your God. In it you shall do no work: you, nor your son, nor your daughter, nor your male servant, nor your female servant, nor your cattle, nor your stranger who is within your gates. For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and hallowed it.

5 “Honor your father and your mother, that your days may be long upon the land which the Lord your God is giving you.
6 “You shall not murder.
7 “You shall not commit adultery.
8 “You shall not steal.
9 “You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.
10 “You shall not covet your neighbor's house; you shall not covet your neighbor's wife, nor his male servant, nor his female servant, nor his ox, nor his donkey, nor anything that is your neighbor's.”




Now, don't you feel silly?

How much more do you have to rewrite to suit your ability to convey another spin...a self-concocted belief system that works as long as you keep rewriting the narrative?

Now don't you feel silly? Wait, scratch the word "silly" and replace it with "dishonest".

 

[RamFel]

You have to be kidding me?

Leviticus 20:9 For every one that curseth his father or his mother shall be surely put to death

Leviticus 20:10 And the man that committeth adultery with another man's wife, even he that committeth adultery with his neighbour's wife, the adulterer and the adulteress shall surely be put to death.

Leviticus 20:11 And the man that lieth with his father's wife hath uncovered his father's nakedness: both of them shall surely be put to death

Leviticus 20:12 And if a man lie with his daughter in law, both of them shall surely be put to death

Leviticus 20:13 If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death

Leviticus 20:13 If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death

Leviticus 20:15 And if a man lie with a beast, he shall surely be put to death: and ye shall slay the beast

Leviticus 20:16 And if a woman approach unto any beast, and lie down thereto, thou shalt kill the woman, and the beast: they shall surely be put to death

Leviticus 20:27 A man also or woman that hath a familiar spirit, or that is a wizard, shall surely be put to death: they shall stone them with stones

Leviticus 21:9 And the daughter of any priest, if she profane herself by playing the whore, she profaneth her father: she shall be burnt with fire.

Leviticus 24:16 And he that blasphemeth the name of the LORD, he shall surely be put to death, and all the congregation shall certainly stone him


Then we are not even talking about lying about virginity, daughters of priests who go into prostitution, raping a virgin, rape of an engaged virgin, rape victims for not having screamed enough, worshiping idols, breaking the sabbath, practicing magic, being a medium/spiritualist, trying to convert people to another religion (except of course if you are trying to convert them to christianity I would assume), apostasy (in this case, kill people if they live in a town in which most believe in a different god, kill the everybody, woman and children included and even the animals in that town after which you burn it to the ground), being a false prophet, striking your parents, cursing your parents, perjury, ignoring the verdict of a judge/priest, not penning up a dangerous bull if he kills someone, living in a city that did not surrender to the Israelites, etc.


God says he does not want you to kill anybody? That is a joke right? Who do you think kills someone who curses at the parents according to that law of god according to you? The magic execution angels? The executioner leprechauns? The little green men who the pope would not mind baptizing? Tell me who shall kill these people who have sinned according to god's laws?

He would love you to kill whole scores of people, he has given you a whole host of excuses you can go out and kill people. How about murdering the entire population of Hollywood? They are a bunch of atheist god haters who surely fall into the category of a city where most have fallen victim to apostasy? Kill all the scientology followers because they believe in thetans.

Yes, God has killed before. But that's God! Since He owns us, he has that right. He can also tell you to take lives. But you're talking about God! He owns every single thing in the world because he created every single thing in the world. You haven't proven anything.

Why don't you stop trying to prove me wrong? You know that 99% of the time I'm going to win. Why do you punish yourself like that?

 

[Slyhunter]

Yes, God has killed before. But that's God! Since He owns us, he has that right. He can also tell you to take lives. But you're talking about God! He owns every single thing in the world because he created every single thing in the world. You haven't proven anything.

Why don't you stop trying to prove me wrong? You know that 99% of the time I'm going to win. Why do you punish yourself like that?

**** god.

 

[Removable Mind]

Who gives a **** what an imaginary god thinks. Nature itself made it so that the primary purpose for sex is to procreate. And I personally believe that all intelligent life should be protected, including the unborn, unless there is a good reason like a genetic defect.

If we don't protect the least among us what will happen when we encounter alien civilizations more intelligent then us? I say treat the unborn exactly the same as you'd want an higher alien civilization to treat ourselves.

You have the right to exercise THAT CHOICE! Others may not want to indulge in your choice.

The world isn't dying off. The population growth is "positive"...not negative. But even if it was. Women have no obligation to proliferate the species. If humanity dies...it dies. It will anyway sooner or later. All living things die. It's inevitable.

 

[Slyhunter]

You have the right to exercise THAT CHOICE! Others may not want to indulge in your choice.

The world isn't dying off. The population growth is "positive"...not negative. But even if it was. Women have no obligation to proliferate the species. If humanity dies...it dies. It will anyway sooner or later. All living things die. It's inevitable.

That doesn't make it alright to kill unwanted intelligent life.

 

[Removable Mind]

That doesn't make it alright to kill unwanted intelligent life.

Reality is what it is. There is no guarantee of a specific lifespan - for any living thing. For every second a life can exist...it can die. No stage of life is exempt from death.