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Are you happy that your mother decided NOT to Abort YOU !! [W:197, 1025]

Slyhunter said:
We have evolved and now consider blacks people. We will continue to evolve and start seeing fetus's as people too.
BTW I'm Agnostic so don't throw your anti-christian arguments at me.
I believe all intelligent life should be sacred Sanct. That means some day Porpoises and monkey's too, once they evolve enough or we help them evolve enough.
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No, because a fetus is not a person/human being. It may have the potential to be one but nothing more.

Fine your agnostic, that is why I (virtually always) write
your religious/moral views
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. You know the forwards slash, which means (and I quote):

1. A slash is often used to indicate "or"
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Slash

The slash is most commonly used as the word substitute for "or" which indicates a choice
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Slash (punctuation) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

So, please do not accuse me of "throwing my anti-christian arguments at you", I am saying that you oppose abortion because of your religious or moral views. I do not know which one is which so I put the "or" in there to not offend people who are non-religious. I do not know why you want to throw the discussion into this direction but I do not feel I did anything wrong so if you feel angry, then that is not my problem. As an atheist I do not care what religion people are, if someone is religious fine, if they agnostic fine, if they are atheist fine. I just dislike religious/conservatives/libertarians from oppressing women, why you want to oppress women is not that important to me.

I may not be a fan of abortion, but as I am not a woman I do not have the right to dictate to a woman what she cannot do when it comes to her own body. Her body, not yours, not the popes, not your agnostic world view, a woman's body and if she decides (as long as it is early enough in the pregnancy) that she wants to have a safe abortion than she should be able to have one without the interference of people who are anti-freedom for women.
 
Slyhunter said:
She lost that right when she put a living being in that uterus.
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That may be your agnostic view but that is your view and your opinion and I totally disagree with that opinion. From that however I assume you are in favor of abortion in cases of incest, rape, spousal rape? Because in those cases the woman did not put a living being in her uterus. Someone else did that against her wishes.

And none of that matters to me because it is not your body so it is not your choice. The anti-freedom forces will not win this argument if it is up to me and people who believe in a woman's right to choose.
 
Slyhunter said:
I don't think they have the right to kill their unborn child except for rare circumstances, like if it has Downs or the Gay gene.
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The gay gene? I am sorry but astounding that people in their right mind can think something like this exists/is a reason for abortion.
 
Peter King said:
The gay gene? I am sorry but astounding that people in their right mind can think something like this exists/is a reason for abortion.
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I agree. It's Absurd!

That is undoubtedly the most bigoted comment for a so-called pro-life poster...EVER!. In my 3 + years in DP,

A lot a pro-choice are called bigoted for their belief in a woman's right to choose. But, Skyhunter's gay gene comment wins the grand prize for the most bigoted comment...hands down.
 
Peter King said:
That may be your agnostic view but that is your view and your opinion and I totally disagree with that opinion. From that however I assume you are in favor of abortion in cases of incest, rape, spousal rape? Because in those cases the woman did not put a living being in her uterus. Someone else did that against her wishes.

And none of that matters to me because it is not your body so it is not your choice. The anti-freedom forces will not win this argument if it is up to me and people who believe in a woman's right to choose.
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That's what they said back in the 1800's. It's not your slave and they'll kill them if they want to.
 
choiceone said:
Against the woman's will and without her consent?
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Should the police arrest me if I start killing people? Against my will? Without my consent?

You don't get everything in life that you want. Sometimes you have to just take it. Life is not fair.
 
choiceone said:
Reality is that it would not matter if an embryo were a person with the conscious mind of a twenty-year-old. IF anything or anyone is inside a woman's uterus without her consent, is biologically attached to her without her consent, is suppressing her immune system without her consent, is taking oxygen and nutrients out of her blood without her consent, and if forcing her body to perform labor to sustain its life without her consent, it doesn't have the right to do any of those things, and she has the right to have it removed.

That is all we're talking about when we're talking about abortion.

People like you are so dangerous to women in the US that girls should be required to learn self-defense techniques in PE and buy guns and learn how to use them to be prepared to protect their rights from your attacks.

You are proposing to violate their rights so intimately that they should be advised never to go out on a date with you, to associate with you, etc. You want them to be sex slaves - that is what it means for you and the government to control their bodies for the purpose of sexual reproduction.
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"IF anything or anyone is inside a woman's uterus without her consent, is biologically attached to her without her consent, is suppressing her immune system without her consent, is taking oxygen and nutrients out of her blood without her consent, and if forcing her body to perform labor to sustain its life without her consent, it doesn't have the right to do any of those things, and she has the right to have it removed.
"

You see what I mean?

It's logic like this that makes me think that liberals have gone off the deep end.

What kind of nonsense is that?

> inside a woman's uterus without her consent
> biologically attached to her without her consent
> suppressing her immune system without her consent
> taking oxygen and nutrients out of her blood without her consent
> forcing her body to perform labor to sustain its life without her consent

It's questions like this that make me doubt your cause. Because I suddenly KNOW that I'm on the right side because we conservatives don't have to make up stuff like this! All we have to do is stick to the truth and we are OK.

How can I take any of you seriously where you ask questions like this?

It's a BABY for Pete's sake!!!

What do you expect it to do?

I am so thankful not to be a liberal.
 
prometeus said:
Sadly that is try and it is so mostly because imbeciles oppose universal health care.

Yea, religious zealots will not stop even at sacrificing children in order to gain power to dictate.

Ignorant BS.
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This post doesn't deserve the dignity of a proper response.
 
Peter King said:
No, I do not believe that I am dehumanizing because it is not a human being, it might have the potential to grow into a human being but at the time if is aborted it is not a human being. And that means it is not technically murder, proven by the fact that the legal system acknowledges that it is not murder.



That is the whole issue with the abortion discussion, we both believe we are right. And I know on which side I come down, on the side of womens rights.



Are you or are you not of the opinion that the right to choose for women has to be scrapped in favor of the protection of a ZEF. That is why women and men need protection from the enemies of free choice and if you do not believe in free choice (within reason) then you are someone that makes the need for protection of womens rights acute and pressing. You may love women, but you want to deny them the right to decide what happens in their bodies, meaning you do not respect their right to choose and decide over that woman's own body. That is not love, that in the end is controlling of women because of your religious/moral views.
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Rubbish
 
Slyhunter said:
That's what they said back in the 1800's. It's not your slave and they'll kill them if they want to.
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except that a ZEF is not a human being and a slave was and is a human being.
 
RamFel said:
Should the police arrest me if I start killing people? Against my will? Without my consent?

You don't get everything in life that you want. Sometimes you have to just take it. Life is not fair.
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Exactly! Life's not fair. Remember that. What makes it really unfair is that you don't have contol over human sexual behavior, or conception, or women, or the rights government is sworn to protect. It's unfair that you don't control women who choose to have an abortion.

You're absolutely right. Life isnt fair. But obviously life has been more unfair for pro-life advocates who suffer the daily anguish of each abortion performed. You must mourn every second of every day over all the abortions occurring every second of the day.

Life's just not fair.
 
Peter King said:
except that a ZEF is not a human being and a slave was and is a human being.
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Those who lived back in the 1800's would argue that point with you. Blacks were not considered people. Just like you don't currently consider unborn fetuses as human even though they are.
 
Peter King said:
No, they are not and it is not up to you to decide what a woman can or cannot do to a ZEF (in the early stages of pregnancy) in her own uterus.
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I am not saying that I am the one to decide. Her doctor however is a different matter.

Peter King said:
Babies are dying, babies are dying from lack of nutrition, from poorly educated parents with little or no parenting skills, they are killed due to the gangs/violence and drugs, they are killed because of lack of proper medical insurance for poor parents/single parents. Those are the babies that are actually born that need protecting, a ZEF is not a baby and does not have rights that come close to that of the mother, especially not in the earliest stage of pregnancy. You may call it a baby or a person, I do not.
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Some of what you say is true. It is a very violent world and a hard life for many people. But it's not your or her job to make that decision. You are trying to be in a position to decide who lives and who dies. If the mother is in danger of dying during the delivery and a doctor advises it, then I say go ahead. But it will be HIS decision. Not hers.

ZEFs are indeed human beings. I know exactly when cells become human beings. Do you?
 
Peter King said:
It is not a horse but it most certainly not a human being/person when it is a ZEF in the earliest stage of gestation.
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No. A ZEF is a human person at it's earliest stage. Everything has a beginning. It doesn't have to have a brain, or appendages for it to be a person.
 
RamFel said:
No. A ZEF is a human person at it's earliest stage. Everything has a beginning. It doesn't have to have a brain, or appendages for it to be a person.
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According to you, according to your personal point of view. It is not a fact but an opinion that anti=choice people have when it comes to the right of women to decide what happens in their own uterus. This is your opinion, not mine. A ZEF is not a human person with rights to equal or trump the rights of the woman.
 
Peter King said:
According to you, according to your personal point of view. It is not a fact but an opinion that anti=choice people have when it comes to the right of women to decide what happens in their own uterus. This is your opinion, not mine. A ZEF is not a human person with rights to equal or trump the rights of the woman.
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No. Because I don't think you have any idea of when it becomes a person. But I do.

It's at conception.
 
Slyhunter said:
I don't think they have the right to kill their unborn child except for rare circumstances, like if it has Downs or the Gay gene.
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Whooo hooo! Nothing like believing it's ok to remove perfectly good people from society! Yee haw!


We have a new winner! And I didnt think my contempt could deepen further. Huh....even I'm wrong ocassionally. First women are not worth anything unless they make babies and their rights come 2nd to the unborn, and now this.

It's good for people to read this stuff and realize that it actually exists out in the real world.
 
RamFel said:
No. Because I don't think you have any idea of when it becomes a person. But I do.

It's at conception.
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an earth worm is more of a person then a human at conception at least its multicellular life
 
Lursa said:
Her entire life basically, except for motherhood.

But it's the same for him, I'm sure....his education was a 'convenience.' His job? Just a 'convenience.' Paying the bills and not living in poverty? Just a 'convenience.' He taught his kids that college, a trade, higher ed, were all 'conveniences' and not to worry about pursuing them. Meh, who cares? Career, promotion, being in a profession? A mere convenence, they can just pump gas or work at Walmart their whole lives....no biggie!
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Yep. For some of these anti-choice extremists, marriage and motherhood is all a woman "should" want. It really seems to make them angry that women can cheerfully reject both with no "consequences" for doing so.
 
Slyhunter said:
The woman most important value to society is her womb and her ability to create life.The fetus has great potential and that potential shouldn't be thrown away simply because of a womans whims.
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WOW. :roll: In other words, you think of a woman as being nothing more than a mindless baby factory for the church or the state. To you, she doesn't seem to be a PERSON, with ideas and thoughts of her own. Such is the regressive mindset of the misogynist. Luckily for ALL women, myself included, you don't decide for any of us what our "most important value" is. I can decide that for myself.

I decided long ago that I don't EVER want pregnancy or babies, and I couldn't care less if some anti-choice extremists are ticked off by that. I have just as much right NOT to have children as other women do to be mothers. Motherhood is OPTIONAL, not required, which means I can opt OUT of motherhood for any reason. My particular reason is that I simply prefer to do other things with my life besides raise kids. Got a problem with that? Tough luck.
 
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