Are We Witnessing the Moral Collapse of America?

I remember a time when being caught having an affair was enough to ruin your political career. I remember politicians being caught in a single proven lie being ruined.

Today, I think Roy Moore, a man who was banned from shopping malls for harassing teen girls, will probably be elected senator in Alabama. Our president is a thoroughly morally corrupt and dishonest man.

Which group is supporting and defending these morally flawed men? The Christian Right. There was a time when the Christian Right stood for family values and any moral scandal would cause them to abandon a political candidate.

There is a passage in the Bible where Abraham begs God not to destroy Sodom. He pleads with God and asks God to spare Sodom if he could find 10 good men remaining. Sadly, Sodom had become so corrupt that he could not find even 10 good men in the entire city.

I ask, are there 10 good men left in America? I'm speaking figuratively. I think there is a consequence to electing an immoral man as president. Conservatives have made a Faustian bargain (deal with the devil) with Trump and now Moore. Once Roy Moore gets into the Senate, what exactly will the new moral standard be?

I think America is descending into a moral abyss. There will be no dishonesty or immoral conduct too reprehensible as to prevent you from being a political leader in America. And our religious leaders will be the first to support these morally bankfrupt men.

SonOfDaedalus said:

I remember a time when being caught having an affair was enough to ruin your political career. I remember politicians being caught in a single proven lie being ruined.

Today, I think Roy Moore, a man who was banned from shopping malls for harassing teen girls, will probably be elected senator in Alabama. Our president is a thoroughly morally corrupt and dishonest man.

Which group is supporting and defending these morally flawed men? The Christian Right. There was a time when the Christian Right stood for family values and any moral scandal would cause them to abandon a political candidate.

There is a passage in the Bible where Abraham begs God not to destroy Sodom. He pleads with God and asks God to spare Sodom if he could find 10 good men remaining. Sadly, Sodom had become so corrupt that he could not find even 10 good men in the entire city.

I ask, are there 10 good men left in America? I'm speaking figuratively. I think there is a consequence to electing an immoral man as president. Conservatives have made a Faustian bargain (deal with the devil) with Trump and now Moore. Once Roy Moore gets into the Senate, what exactly will the new moral standard be?

I think America is descending into a moral abyss. There will be no dishonesty or immoral conduct too reprehensible as to prevent you from being a political leader in America. And our religious leaders will be the first to support these morally bankfrupt men.

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I see this as a result of mixing religion and politics. That never ends well. Our founders separated Church from State for a reason.

I see us as living in the Age of Decadence, so yes, I do think we are witnessing the moral collapse of this nation. At this stage in an empire, the people look for a way to relive their years of 'greatness,' to no avail. In our case, we betrayed our ethics to elect a snake oil salesman who promised that return.

America collapsed morally decades ago. About 1972 if I recall rightly.

SonOfDaedalus said:

I remember a time when being caught having an affair was enough to ruin your political career. I remember politicians being caught in a single proven lie being ruined.

Today, I think Roy Moore, a man who was banned from shopping malls for harassing teen girls, will probably be elected senator in Alabama. Our president is a thoroughly morally corrupt and dishonest man.

Which group is supporting and defending these morally flawed men? The Christian Right. There was a time when the Christian Right stood for family values and any moral scandal would cause them to abandon a political candidate.

There is a passage in the Bible where Abraham begs God not to destroy Sodom. He pleads with God and asks God to spare Sodom if he could find 10 good men remaining. Sadly, Sodom had become so corrupt that he could not find even 10 good men in the entire city.

I ask, are there 10 good men left in America? I'm speaking figuratively. I think there is a consequence to electing an immoral man as president. Conservatives have made a Faustian bargain (deal with the devil) with Trump and now Moore. Once Roy Moore gets into the Senate, what exactly will the new moral standard be?

I think America is descending into a moral abyss. There will be no dishonesty or immoral conduct too reprehensible as to prevent you from being a political leader in America. And our religious leaders will be the first to support these morally bankfrupt men.

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We've never been a particularly moral country.

Tanngrisnir said:

We've never been a particularly moral country.

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That's not completely true. Gary Heart's candidacy ended because of an extramarital affair. Joe Biden was set to be the presidential candidate until he got caught plagiarizing a speech.

Getting caught lying used to be a big deal. Now Trump lies every day of the week. John Kelly lies and he still has a job. Lying is just fine now.

I also see claiming the president can't obstruct justice and can fire people investigating him. Once that's accepted, then the corruption of presidents will have no limit.

SonOfDaedalus said:

That's not completely true. Gary Heart's candidacy ended because of an extramarital affair. Joe Biden was set to be the presidential candidate until he got caught plagiarizing a speech.

Getting caught lying used to be a big deal. Now Trump lies every day of the week. John Kelly lies and he still has a job. Lying is just fine now.

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Overall, looking at our history on a macro scale, I just don't see any evidence that we're a particularly moral nation or that we ever have been.

Individual cases don't really affect that, but that's more about public perception standards than anything else.

SonOfDaedalus said:

I remember a time when being caught having an affair was enough to ruin your political career. I remember politicians being caught in a single proven lie being ruined.

Today, I think Roy Moore, a man who was banned from shopping malls for harassing teen girls, will probably be elected senator in Alabama. Our president is a thoroughly morally corrupt and dishonest man.

Which group is supporting and defending these morally flawed men? The Christian Right. There was a time when the Christian Right stood for family values and any moral scandal would cause them to abandon a political candidate.

There is a passage in the Bible where Abraham begs God not to destroy Sodom. He pleads with God and asks God to spare Sodom if he could find 10 good men remaining. Sadly, Sodom had become so corrupt that he could not find even 10 good men in the entire city.

I ask, are there 10 good men left in America? I'm speaking figuratively. I think there is a consequence to electing an immoral man as president. Conservatives have made a Faustian bargain (deal with the devil) with Trump and now Moore. Once Roy Moore gets into the Senate, what exactly will the new moral standard be?

I think America is descending into a moral abyss. There will be no dishonesty or immoral conduct too reprehensible as to prevent you from being a political leader in America. And our religious leaders will be the first to support these morally bankfrupt men.

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It's a pretty steep descent, too:



I'm not even sure which group is in deeper denial: the ones who argue our leadership should meet a high standard, or the ones who don't.

Tanngrisnir said:

Overall, looking at our history on a macro scale, I just don't see any evidence that we're a particularly moral nation or that we ever have been.

Individual cases don't really affect that, but that's more about public perception standards than anything else.

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I agree that privately people like Kennedy and FDR were immoral in many respects. But publically it wasn't acceptable to lie. It was a big deal. It wasn't acceptable to cheat on your wife much less molest 14-year-olds and grab women's privates.

The election of Trump has significantly damaged America's moral standards.

Absentglare said:

It's a pretty steep descent, too:



I'm not even sure which group is in deeper denial: the ones who argue our leadership should meet a high standard, or the ones who don't.

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Wow, a chart that proves what is obvious to everyone about the Christian Right. It has morally collapsed. But those are the people who brought us Jim and Tammy Baker.



Don't they remind you of Trump in some way?

Geoist said:

I see us as living in the Age of Decadence, so yes, I do think we are witnessing the moral collapse of this nation. At this stage in an empire, the people look for a way to relive their years of 'greatness,' to no avail. In our case, we betrayed our ethics to elect a snake oil salesman who promised that return.

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We turned to the used car salesman who promised to rewind time, e.g. #MAGA, and he will only make our underlying desperation worse.

SonOfDaedalus said:

I agree that privately people like Kennedy and FDR were immoral in many respects. But publically it wasn't acceptable to lie. It was a big deal. It wasn't acceptable to cheat on your wife much less molest 14-year-olds and grab women's privates.

The election of Trump has significantly damaged America's moral standards.

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Can't argue with that last statement. But then, those who support him, white evangelical types esp., have only ever paid lip service to morality and upstanding behavior. It's all a front with them. The Christian right has never been anything other than a purely cosmetic endeavor for power.

If it weren't, they wouldn't have supported him.

SonOfDaedalus said:

I remember a time when being caught having an affair was enough to ruin your political career. I remember politicians being caught in a single proven lie being ruined.

Today, I think Roy Moore, a man who was banned from shopping malls for harassing teen girls, will probably be elected senator in Alabama. Our president is a thoroughly morally corrupt and dishonest man.

Which group is supporting and defending these morally flawed men? The Christian Right. There was a time when the Christian Right stood for family values and any moral scandal would cause them to abandon a political candidate.

There is a passage in the Bible where Abraham begs God not to destroy Sodom. He pleads with God and asks God to spare Sodom if he could find 10 good men remaining. Sadly, Sodom had become so corrupt that he could not find even 10 good men in the entire city.

I ask, are there 10 good men left in America? I'm speaking figuratively. I think there is a consequence to electing an immoral man as president. Conservatives have made a Faustian bargain (deal with the devil) with Trump and now Moore. Once Roy Moore gets into the Senate, what exactly will the new moral standard be?

I think America is descending into a moral abyss. There will be no dishonesty or immoral conduct too reprehensible as to prevent you from being a political leader in America. And our religious leaders will be the first to support these morally bankfrupt men.

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The short answer is no, America is not becoming morally bankrupt.

What we're witnessing is the reaction of the socioeconomically-dominant demographic to what it sees as a threat to its dominance. This is true in all nations - there will always be one demographic that is socioeconomically dominant (the demographic may be racial, ethnic, or religious in nature), and if it sees a threat (rightly or wrongly) to its dominance, that demographic will "circle its wagons" to preserve its dominance. This is why Trump's racism, his "white nationalism" struck a chord among tens of millions of whites against whoever wasn't a WASP (white Anglo-Saxon protestant). All the proof you need to see is how the GOP changed during the Obama presidency, and how so many of them still to this day (including Trump) claim that Obama wasn't born in America.

The problem is that short of ethnic cleansing or worse, there is nothing, absolutely nothing the "MAGA" crowd can do to stop the rise of minorities in America. Unfortunately, such grand-scale demographic shifts almost always result in great violence (such is in large measure a major reason for Syria's civil war). We can only hope that we are morally strong enough and educated enough to avoid what has so often been the case in other nations.

SonOfDaedalus said:

I remember a time when being caught having an affair was enough to ruin your political career. I remember politicians being caught in a single proven lie being ruined.

Today, I think Roy Moore, a man who was banned from shopping malls for harassing teen girls, will probably be elected senator in Alabama. Our president is a thoroughly morally corrupt and dishonest man.

Which group is supporting and defending these morally flawed men? The Christian Right. There was a time when the Christian Right stood for family values and any moral scandal would cause them to abandon a political candidate.

There is a passage in the Bible where Abraham begs God not to destroy Sodom. He pleads with God and asks God to spare Sodom if he could find 10 good men remaining. Sadly, Sodom had become so corrupt that he could not find even 10 good men in the entire city.

I ask, are there 10 good men left in America? I'm speaking figuratively. I think there is a consequence to electing an immoral man as president. Conservatives have made a Faustian bargain (deal with the devil) with Trump and now Moore. Once Roy Moore gets into the Senate, what exactly will the new moral standard be?

I think America is descending into a moral abyss. There will be no dishonesty or immoral conduct too reprehensible as to prevent you from being a political leader in America. And our religious leaders will be the first to support these morally bankfrupt men.

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We have been watching that collaps develop in slow motion over decades, some would say.

SonOfDaedalus said:

I think America is descending into a moral abyss. There will be no dishonesty or immoral conduct too reprehensible as to prevent you from being a political leader in America. And our religious leaders will be the first to support these morally bankfrupt men.

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This is more of that long standing, Democratic Party, holier than thou moral preaching, with its Protestant Preachers become politicians.

One good thing about more Mexicans moving into the USA is that it will help dilute the Protestants. Catholics, Jews, and Muslims tend to be very similar in that you don't see them running around preaching holier than thou to the masses. Albeit, in the Latin Rite world there aren't really many real catholics left, except among the Mexicans, Chileans, some African nations and maybe Asian nations. Possibly Portugal too.

Protestants need their Presidents and Queens to be saints. Traditional Catholics do not. We have saints to pray to and to look to for life examples. Like St. Bernadette. A saint I pray to. Only a morally deluded Protestant would think any US President during my life time was on par, morally, with St. Bernadette. Utter nonsense.

Look. Catholics and Muslims had homosexual leaders. Richard the Lion Heart and Saladin (the latter I think it is believed had some male concubines).

Holier than thou Democratic religious have been stomping across the US for decades now preaching the moral belief that men should grab by their mouths the penises of other men.

I find Trump's sexually sinful talk (which I think falls under immodesty, but I could be wrong) no more morally corrupt than my own sexual sin, my own lack of modesty, and no more corrupt than all the Democratic Party sexually debauched (naked women on leashes walked by dominate female lesbians) Gay Parades. And you all have been doing in front of little grade school age children for years now. A friend of mine from Chicago told me the annual gay celebration in Chicago has in outdoor public, where children can walk up and see, butt naked gay men riding bicycles. I'm not sure how true that is because I have not been to Chicago to see any of their gay events. But if it is true it is no more "holy" than Trumps heterosexual "locker room" talk.

Now, Dave Rubin is no saint, but seems to be a great guy all around. The kind of dude that would make a great neighbor. A good friend. A very likable guy. He is a gay man married to another man (a secular contract--not a religious sacramental marriage). And I would probably vote for him if he ran for the US Presidency. Dave Rubin is no homo-feminist though. Not of the Democratic Party type. He is homosexual but that is only one part of him.






The Mexicans produce drywallers and carpenters (by and far mainly drywallers though, and them cats can hang some sheet-rock). And they are very family oriented. They are the complete opposite of the Democratic Party's 1990s "black male construction workers are evil" story. Back when the Democratic Party preached a belief that suggested only good men graduate from college and blow each other, or only good men make lots of money and have women running after them. The Mexicans live out a life more in keeping with traditional Catholic and dare I say Muslim values. Nothing wrong with a woman marrying a draywaller and the two having children and raising a family.

So, the more Mexicans and the more Muslims we can get in the USA the better morally it will become.

The college educated Democrats are sooooooo culturally out of tune with working class Democrats (like the new Mexicans). The irony is Trump a cocky New York real estate tycoon has understood working class America (at least working class whites) better than Democratic politicians.

Democrats are so dumb they still think every American from the inner-city can become rich white collar workers with college degrees. But good, keeping talking that nonsense like some fool with a silver spoon in his or her mouth, you'll lose more elections living in your isolated fairy tale worlds.

SonOfDaedalus said:

Wow, a chart that proves what is obvious to everyone about the Christian Right. It has morally collapsed. But those are the people who brought us Jim and Tammy Baker.



Don't they remind you of Trump in some way?

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Plastic, full of hot air, covered in orange paint, and using fraud to make money.

I think the saddest part is that there are so many weak people for these predators to feed off of.

Are We Witnessing the Moral Collapse of America?

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Yep, we have been since the advent of modern day liberalism. The same ideology that has promoted and championed all manner of sexual deviancy, that's laughed at and denigrated decency, and has worked feverishly to destroy the American family.

Liberalism is a cancer.

SonOfDaedalus said:

I remember a time when being caught having an affair was enough to ruin your political career. I remember politicians being caught in a single proven lie being ruined.

Today, I think Roy Moore, a man who was banned from shopping malls for harassing teen girls, will probably be elected senator in Alabama. Our president is a thoroughly morally corrupt and dishonest man.

Which group is supporting and defending these morally flawed men? The Christian Right. There was a time when the Christian Right stood for family values and any moral scandal would cause them to abandon a political candidate.

There is a passage in the Bible where Abraham begs God not to destroy Sodom. He pleads with God and asks God to spare Sodom if he could find 10 good men remaining. Sadly, Sodom had become so corrupt that he could not find even 10 good men in the entire city.

I ask, are there 10 good men left in America? I'm speaking figuratively. I think there is a consequence to electing an immoral man as president. Conservatives have made a Faustian bargain (deal with the devil) with Trump and now Moore. Once Roy Moore gets into the Senate, what exactly will the new moral standard be?

I think America is descending into a moral abyss. There will be no dishonesty or immoral conduct too reprehensible as to prevent you from being a political leader in America. And our religious leaders will be the first to support these morally bankfrupt men.

Click to expand...

Didn't the moral collapse of America occur when you forcibly brought Africans to your country and forced them to work as slaves? Was it not when you committed mass genocide against Native Americans? Compared to having an affair, wouldn't you say that was far more immoral?

SonOfDaedalus said:

I remember a time when being caught having an affair was enough to ruin your political career. I remember politicians being caught in a single proven lie being ruined.

Today, I think Roy Moore, a man who was banned from shopping malls for harassing teen girls, will probably be elected senator in Alabama. Our president is a thoroughly morally corrupt and dishonest man.

Which group is supporting and defending these morally flawed men? The Christian Right. There was a time when the Christian Right stood for family values and any moral scandal would cause them to abandon a political candidate.

There is a passage in the Bible where Abraham begs God not to destroy Sodom. He pleads with God and asks God to spare Sodom if he could find 10 good men remaining. Sadly, Sodom had become so corrupt that he could not find even 10 good men in the entire city.

I ask, are there 10 good men left in America? I'm speaking figuratively. I think there is a consequence to electing an immoral man as president. Conservatives have made a Faustian bargain (deal with the devil) with Trump and now Moore. Once Roy Moore gets into the Senate, what exactly will the new moral standard be?

I think America is descending into a moral abyss. There will be no dishonesty or immoral conduct too reprehensible as to prevent you from being a political leader in America. And our religious leaders will be the first to support these morally bankfrupt men.

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I keep saying it. 1 strike felony death penalty for all federal politicians and we will clean it up.

Bevægelsen said:

Didn't the moral collapse of America occur when you forcibly brought Africans to your country and forced them to work as slaves? Was it not when you committed mass genocide against Native Americans? Compared to having an affair, wouldn't you say that was far more immoral?

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Interesting how you bring up 2 things that were both started by Europeans and ended by Americans. Where are you from again? Please don’t say Europe. The home of 2 major world wars, communism and fascism, and such lovely things like the French Revolution.

The moral decline has been taking place since the 60's at least.

blackjack50 said:

Interesting how you bring up 2 things that were both started by Europeans and ended by Americans. Where are you from again? Please don’t say Europe. The home of 2 major world wars, communism and fascism, and such lovely things like the French Revolution.

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Neither the American slave trade nor the genocide committed against Native Americans were started by Europeans.

Goshin said:

America collapsed morally decades ago. About 1972 if I recall rightly.

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June 3rd... around 5:33 in the afternoon... I remember... it was horrifying.

SonOfDaedalus said:

I remember a time when being caught having an affair was enough to ruin your political career. I remember politicians being caught in a single proven lie being ruined.

Today, I think Roy Moore, a man who was banned from shopping malls for harassing teen girls, will probably be elected senator in Alabama. Our president is a thoroughly morally corrupt and dishonest man.

Which group is supporting and defending these morally flawed men? The Christian Right. There was a time when the Christian Right stood for family values and any moral scandal would cause them to abandon a political candidate.

There is a passage in the Bible where Abraham begs God not to destroy Sodom. He pleads with God and asks God to spare Sodom if he could find 10 good men remaining. Sadly, Sodom had become so corrupt that he could not find even 10 good men in the entire city.

I ask, are there 10 good men left in America? I'm speaking figuratively. I think there is a consequence to electing an immoral man as president. Conservatives have made a Faustian bargain (deal with the devil) with Trump and now Moore. Once Roy Moore gets into the Senate, what exactly will the new moral standard be?

I think America is descending into a moral abyss. There will be no dishonesty or immoral conduct too reprehensible as to prevent you from being a political leader in America. And our religious leaders will be the first to support these morally bankfrupt men.

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Well according to social conservatives we've been in a moral collapse since ever after the puritan pilgrims' heyday. And especially since da ebil gubamint started allowing two guys they don't even know get married which mystically ruined the sanctity of their own marriages.


* edit...

See?

lefty louie said:

The moral decline has been taking place since the 60's at least.

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To social conservatives every day is morally worse than the last.

Bevægelsen said:

Neither the American slave trade nor the genocide committed against Native Americans were started by Europeans.

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Not that it makes any difference, but on both points you are wrong.