Are we still a Constitutional Democracy? Are we to allow Trump to destroy it?

[bubbabgone]

Think whatever you want to as you are entitled to your opinion but not to your own facts.

I am 73 years old and have lived a life full of experiences and new knowledge. As a very successful salesman, it has been determined that I have an ability to read people correctly so I do not see myself as naive. In fact, I believe you to be the one that is naive given that Trump has brainwashed you with his rhetoric and lies.

Nonetheless, these are our own opinions and though I can certainly back them up with countless of other knowledgeable and experienced people's own opinions, it is still just an opinion just as yours is.

That means, we have nothing else to talk about until one of us is able to prove the other wrong through facts. If you cannot provide me at this time with facts that prove my ideas wrong, then perhaps you should quietly go away until you can. I will make sure that when I can prove my ideas I will come back and rub them in your face, as I am sure you want to do the same to me.

For now, lets just say that we have opposing views on the kind of person Trump is.

Your idea seem to be that Congress' oversight entitles them to constitutionally do any damn thing they want.
So, yeah, I'd like to see you come back and prove that.

 

[Luckyone]

Your idea seem to be that Congress' oversight entitles them to constitutionally do any damn thing they want.
So, yeah, I'd like to see you come back and prove that.

wow, I did not think I was going to be able to prove you wrong so soon. You really stepped into it. You can't be a very intelligent man.

Congress can do just about anything within the law and within what the Constitution says.

Here is an explanation of what Congressional oversight means.

Congressional oversight is oversight by the United States Congress over the Executive Branch, including the numerous U.S. federal agencies. Congressional oversight includes the review, monitoring, and supervision of federal agencies, programs, activities, and policy implementation.[1] Congress exercises this power largely through its congressional committee system. Oversight also occurs in a wide variety of congressional activities and contexts. These include authorization, appropriations, investigative, and legislative hearings by standing committees; specialized investigations by select committees; and reviews and studies by congressional support agencies and staff.

Congress’s oversight authority derives from its “implied” powers in the Constitution, public laws, and House and Senate rules. It is an integral part of the American system of checks and balances.

The complaint from Trump right now is that Congress is investigating further (above what Mueller did) and requesting officially that Trump Tax Returns be given by the IRS. In addition, the complaint is also about them requesting that people in his administration testify directly to Congress.

That is all they are requesting and it falls within their legal powers to do so.

You are an easy mark!

 

[bubbabgone]

Here's further analysis of current lawsuits filed thus far by the House of Representatives that you have labeled as "claptrap". I challenge your legal expertise against Judge Napolitano.

...

"I think that quite frankly I don't know any prosecutor who would bring this case into an actual court of law. It would be rather laughable," Turley said in an attempt to assuage King's fears.

"The fact is that it's very hard actually to obstruct something that is not an underlying crime," the law professor said.

"The fact is, much of what the president did was highly inappropriate and arguably acts of obstruction. But did he fall short of that line? Yeah, I think he fell short by some distance," Turley concluded.
​

Turley: Trump Fell Short Of Obstruction "By Some Distance"; "Laughable" To Bring Case To Court | Video | RealClearPolitics

 

[HumblePi]

Your idea seem to be that Congress' oversight entitles them to constitutionally do any damn thing they want.
So, yeah, I'd like to see you come back and prove that.

No, they're not doing 'any damned thing they want'. It only appears to you to be that way because when Republicans controlled the House, they did absolutely nothing but enable Trump to behave badly. Now that Congress is actually doing what they're supposed to do and catching up with the past 2 years of Republican obstructionists doing nothing, it appears to you that they're doing 'any damned thing they want' when in reality they're doing what they were elected to do. To apply the checks and balances on the powers of the president they they have been duly sworn to do.

 

[HumblePi]

"I think that quite frankly I don't know any prosecutor who would bring this case into an actual court of law. It would be rather laughable," Turley said in an attempt to assuage King's fears.

"The fact is that it's very hard actually to obstruct something that is not an underlying crime," the law professor said.

"The fact is, much of what the president did was highly inappropriate and arguably acts of obstruction. But did he fall short of that line? Yeah, I think he fell short by some distance," Turley concluded.
​

Turley: Trump Fell Short Of Obstruction "By Some Distance"; "Laughable" To Bring Case To Court | Video | RealClearPolitics

Another Fox talking head? No thanks, he's a paid propagandist.

 

[CharisRose]

Yeah, sure... everyone who refutes your posts is always wrong. They either misread your posts or see words that aren't there..You continue to deny what you actually say from post to post.

The back peddle astounds and I'm not buying it.

:yt Interesting, I have also noticed this pattern of posting used by him... which you have correctly pointed out in your response. So, I will also add....:agree!

Roseann

 

[CharisRose]

You applaud your constitution and democracy at the same time as supporting 'my way or the highway' Trump? Interesting. By the way, providing tax returns is, as you correctly state, not a legal requirement; they are voluntarily provided as a matter of political courtesy. I believe Trump's reticence suggests he has things he prefers were hidden-despite his frequent assertions that he has no problems providing them. I find that troubling and at least suspicious.

Yes, I can applaud Our Constitution and Our Form of Government and at the same time support Our Duly Elected 45th President of the United States.

Form of Government: The United States of America is a Democracy - Fact or Myth?

You can believe, find troubling and be suspicious concerning Trump's reasons (without any proof) for not practicing this voluntary political courtesy.

Based on The Constitution and The Amendments.

I look to the 4th Amendment as a good reason not to participate in this kind of political practice.

(imho) I think, that practice undermines the intent of the 4th amendment.

And, I base my opinion on the fact that it leads to suspicious thinking when a person does not voluntarily participate in that political practice.

4th Amendment: What Does the Fourth Amendment Mean? | United States Courts

Roseann

 

[trixare4kids]

Whether you buy it or not is your problem.

I have clearly stated what my thoughts on Trump are and have no reason to hide them. Nonetheless, when I am not addressing Trump, but the fight between 2 people, I am not addressing Trump but addressing the fight between 2 people. It is as simple as that. You are free to believe or not. In your particular case, you have yet to show your ability to be fair, impartial, and understand what is being said. I choose to believe you need to see a doctor about the problem.

Thanks for making my point for me above about you. You really can never admit that you're wrong, confused, or talk out of both sides... I caught you above where you said one thing and said something polar opposite on the same day. I am sure I am not the only poster who notices this about you. Why do you bother to lie?

 

[CharisRose]

Thanks for making my point for me above about you. You really can never admit that you're wrong, confused, or talk out of both sides... I caught you above where you said one thing and said something polar opposite on the same day. I am sure I am not the only poster who notices this about you. Why do you bother to lie?

Plus, another pattern has seemed to emerge the personal put down:spin: tactic!

Example of what he wrote to you.....

Luckyone QUOTE "In your particular case, you have yet to show your ability to be fair, impartial, and understand what is being said. I choose to believe you need to see a doctor about the problem."

Roseann

 

[Luckyone]

Thanks for making my point for me above about you. You really can never admit that you're wrong, confused, or talk out of both sides... I caught you above where you said one thing and said something polar opposite on the same day. I am sure I am not the only poster who notices this about you. Why do you bother to lie?

You know nothing about me but I am going to tell you a few things about me for your information and those that read this post. Whether you choose to believe what I say or not is unimportant as you have yet to show me that you are a person of value. Nonetheless, I am an open book and want to have people to know who I am, for whatever its worth.

I have had a tough life but if there is one thing I have always had is a desire to learn, to know what is real and what is not and to be the best person I can be. This is more about proving myself to my maker than proving myself to anyone.

I am an honest person and I don't lie and much less fool myself by lying what I would want others to believe about me. I understand that as far as God is concerned, there are no lies you can tell him and fooling people on this earth about yourself gets you nowhere except into unhappiness because nothing would be real under that scenario.

I am no hypocrite nor anything even close. If by any chance I say something that can be interpreted as hypocrisy I would be the first to admit to it. Nonetheless, such a situation would come from a mistake, misunderstanding, or plain lack of knowledge. By the same token, when I have a lack of knowledge I do not open my mouth to say anything. I research it.

You say I don't admit when I am wrong, well to begin with it seems that on this board no one has the ability to do that, especially people like yourself that are Trumpers. I have yet to meet more than 1 person here that does and I was pleasantly surprised when CharisRose did. It was the first.

Nonetheless, one of the things I have learned in my life is not to open my mouth to say anything that I don't know about or have not researched. That means I don't make mistakes, at least not knowingly. I am open to be proven wrong because my goal in life is knowledge and that can't be achieved if you don't look clearly at reality. I can tell you some grizzly stories as to how I got to think this way, but that is how I think now.

I have no ego. I long ago found out that ego brings nothing good. I have confidence because of the knowledge I have gained in life but confidence is not ego, it is confidence.

Last but not least, there are 2 kinds of people on this earth and those are givers and takers. A taker thinks only of themselves and a giver thinks of others first. I am a giver and that means that I have compassion, understanding, and ability to be strongly empathic. It is something that a taker cannot understand and he has never learned what it is and what it means.

To wrap this whole dialogue to answer your question, you are wrong that I can't admit that I am wrong. I can admit when I am wrong, but on this I know I am not wrong and perhaps you should take my words to heart and look closer at your own beliefs and at the very minimum look closer at reality and what is truth and what is not.

Look past yourself, past your own ego and listen closely to what others think without commenting back. You would be surprised how much you can actually learn. Here are 5 adages that you should follow:

"Wisdom is the reward you get for a lifetime of listening when you'd have preferred to talk." --Doug Larson
"One of the most sincere forms of respect is actually listening to what another has to say." --Bryant H. McGill
"If you make listening and observation your occupation, you will gain much more than you can by talk." --Robert Baden-Powell
"Listening is a magnetic and strange thing, a creative force. The friends who listen to us are the ones we move toward. When we are listened to, it creates us, makes us unfold and expand." --Karl A. Menniger
"Most of the successful people I've known are the ones who do more listening than talking." --Bernard Baruch

 

[HumblePi]

As long as people comply with Congressional subpoenas to appear before the different Congressional committees, there is no Constitutional crisis. As long as Congress is allowed to do the oversight that it has been empowered by the Constitution as one of their duties to perform, there is no Constitutional crisis. When people are instructed not to comply with Congressional subpoenas, that is a Constitutional crisis. If Congress isn't successful at compelling people to appear or documents they request to be presented, then the crisis is over and we no longer have a functioning Constitution. When we no longer have a Constitution that functions as it has for the past 225 years and it becomes nothing more than an aged, yellow piece of paper with 39 signatures on it, then we are no longer a democratic republic.

 

[Luckyone]

Plus, another pattern has seemed to emerge the personal put down:spin: tactic!

Example of what he wrote to you.....

Luckyone QUOTE "In your particular case, you have yet to show your ability to be fair, impartial, and understand what is being said. I choose to believe you need to see a doctor about the problem."

Roseann

Charis, for your information, the put down of mine addressed to Trix was in reply to her post where she said "You continue to deny what you actually say from post to post.

The back peddle astounds and I'm not buying it."

She was not buying what I was saying so in turn I was choosing to believe that she should see a doctor.

It was a return quip to her quip and nothing else. I don't lower myself to empty insults. I see it as I see it and say what I believe is the same as the other person is saying what they believe.

 

[nekrodev]

Yes, I can applaud Our Constitution and Our Form of Government and at the same time support Our Duly Elected 45th President of the United States.

I mean, you CAN, sure. The level of cognitive dissonance or dishonesty required, though, is off the charts.

 

[trixare4kids]

Plus, another pattern has seemed to emerge the personal put down:spin: tactic!

Example of what he wrote to you.....

Luckyone QUOTE "In your particular case, you have yet to show your ability to be fair, impartial, and understand what is being said. I choose to believe you need to see a doctor about the problem."

Roseann

Watch what he tries to do next... And remember, we're the 'luckyones' to be graced with his presence.

 

[trixare4kids]

You know nothing about me but I am going to tell you a few things about me for your information and those that read this post. Whether you choose to believe what I say or not is unimportant as you have yet to show me that you are a person of value. Nonetheless, I am an open book and want to have people to know who I am, for whatever its worth.

I have had a tough life but if there is one thing I have always had is a desire to learn, to know what is real and what is not and to be the best person I can be. This is more about proving myself to my maker than proving myself to anyone.

I am an honest person and I don't lie and much less fool myself by lying what I would want others to believe about me. I understand that as far as God is concerned, there are no lies you can tell him and fooling people on this earth about yourself gets you nowhere except into unhappiness because nothing would be real under that scenario.

I am no hypocrite nor anything even close. If by any chance I say something that can be interpreted as hypocrisy I would be the first to admit to it. Nonetheless, such a situation would come from a mistake, misunderstanding, or plain lack of knowledge. By the same token, when I have a lack of knowledge I do not open my mouth to say anything. I research it.

You say I don't admit when I am wrong, well to begin with it seems that on this board no one has the ability to do that, especially people like yourself that are Trumpers. I have yet to meet more than 1 person here that does and I was pleasantly surprised when CharisRose did. It was the first.

Nonetheless, one of the things I have learned in my life is not to open my mouth to say anything that I don't know about or have not researched. That means I don't make mistakes, at least not knowingly. I am open to be proven wrong because my goal in life is knowledge and that can't be achieved if you don't look clearly at reality. I can tell you some grizzly stories as to how I got to think this way, but that is how I think now.

I have no ego. I long ago found out that ego brings nothing good. I have confidence because of the knowledge I have gained in life but confidence is not ego, it is confidence.

Last but not least, there are 2 kinds of people on this earth and those are givers and takers. A taker thinks only of themselves and a giver thinks of others first. I am a giver and that means that I have compassion, understanding, and ability to be strongly empathic. It is something that a taker cannot understand and he has never learned what it is and what it means.

To wrap this whole dialogue to answer your question, you are wrong that I can't admit that I am wrong. I can admit when I am wrong, but on this I know I am not wrong and perhaps you should take my words to heart and look closer at your own beliefs and at the very minimum look closer at reality and what is truth and what is not.

Look past yourself, past your own ego and listen closely to what others think without commenting back. You would be surprised how much you can actually learn. Here are 5 adages that you should follow:

"Wisdom is the reward you get for a lifetime of listening when you'd have preferred to talk." --Doug Larson
"One of the most sincere forms of respect is actually listening to what another has to say." --Bryant H. McGill
"If you make listening and observation your occupation, you will gain much more than you can by talk." --Robert Baden-Powell
"Listening is a magnetic and strange thing, a creative force. The friends who listen to us are the ones we move toward. When we are listened to, it creates us, makes us unfold and expand." --Karl A. Menniger
"Most of the successful people I've known are the ones who do more listening than talking." --Bernard Baruch

:lamo Like I was just telling my friend, Rosie.
One thing for sure, you are predictable.

 

[nekrodev]

:lamo Like I was just telling my friend, Rosie.
One thing for sure, you are predictable.

you're certainly an amazing fortune teller. imagine being able to know what they were going to post, and predicting it more than 30 minutes AFTER they posted it lmao

 

[Luckyone]

:lamo Like I was just telling my friend, Rosie.
One thing for sure, you are predictable.

I am predictable, I can vouch for that. People always know where I stand, for what I stand for, and that I am 100% honest about it.

Some find it supporting and rare to find. Some people find it boring. It is who I am and who I will continue to be.

 

[CharisRose]

Charis, for your information, the put down of mine addressed to Trix was in reply to her post where she said "You continue to deny what you actually say from post to post.

The back peddle astounds and I'm not buying it."

She was not buying what I was saying so in turn I was choosing to believe that she should see a doctor.

It was a return quip to her quip and nothing else. I don't lower myself to empty insults. I see it as I see it and say what I believe is the same as the other person is saying what they believe.

I read all of those back and forth posts between you and Trix. I noticed what she noticed about your posting style.

FYI...I know Trix... she is my friend and I totally disagree with your personal put down.

:lol: You can return quip for quip. You can see it and say it all you want to Trix, she can handle it just fine all by herself without my help.

Trix understands what I mean when I use the spin tactic comment.

I was just simply letting my friend know what I thought about your post to her.

Roseann

 

[Bullseye]

As long as people comply with Congressional subpoenas to appear before the different Congressional committees, there is no Constitutional crisis. As long as Congress is allowed to do the oversight that it has been empowered by the Constitution as one of their duties to perform, there is no Constitutional crisis. When people are instructed not to comply with Congressional subpoenas, that is a Constitutional crisis. If Congress isn't successful at compelling people to appear or documents they request to be presented, then the crisis is over and we no longer have a functioning Constitution. When we no longer have a Constitution that functions as it has for the past 225 years and it becomes nothing more than an aged, yellow piece of paper with 39 signatures on it, then we are no longer a democratic republic.

As long as Congress understands its Constitutional oversight responsibility do not extend to personal affairs, political witch hunting or political grudge fights you are correct. The are not, however the Constitutional kangaroo court you and many others on the left seem to envisionage, charged with getting even for Trump being Her Royal Highness.

 

[Lovebug]

In the last 2 weeks, Trump has additionally attacked our Constitution and our laws by:

1)

2)

If Trump is not forced to follow the Constitution and the laws of our nation he will set a precedent for the future that will allow anyone to do the same and get away with it.

Are we still a Constitutional Democracy? Will we allow Trump to break the Constitution and our laws and turn us into an autocratic ruled nation or a dictatorship? Will the Republicans defend the Constitution that they so often quote, or kowtow to Trump's desires? Is Trump above the law?

I don't think it is Trump or his supporters who are a threat to democracy, or else we should just focus on the coming election instead of trying to move heaven and earth to get him removed.

 

[Bullseye]

You know nothing about me but I am going to tell you a few things about me for your information and those that read this post. Whether you choose to believe what I say or not is unimportant as you have yet to show me that you are a person of value. Nonetheless, I am an open book and want to have people to know who I am, for whatever its worth.

I have had a tough life but if there is one thing I have always had is a desire to learn, to know what is real and what is not and to be the best person I can be. This is more about proving myself to my maker than proving myself to anyone.

I am an honest person and I don't lie and much less fool myself by lying what I would want others to believe about me. I understand that as far as God is concerned, there are no lies you can tell him and fooling people on this earth about yourself gets you nowhere except into unhappiness because nothing would be real under that scenario.

I am no hypocrite nor anything even close. If by any chance I say something that can be interpreted as hypocrisy I would be the first to admit to it. Nonetheless, such a situation would come from a mistake, misunderstanding, or plain lack of knowledge. By the same token, when I have a lack of knowledge I do not open my mouth to say anything. I research it.

You say I don't admit when I am wrong, well to begin with it seems that on this board no one has the ability to do that, especially people like yourself that are Trumpers. I have yet to meet more than 1 person here that does and I was pleasantly surprised when CharisRose did. It was the first.

Nonetheless, one of the things I have learned in my life is not to open my mouth to say anything that I don't know about or have not researched. That means I don't make mistakes, at least not knowingly. I am open to be proven wrong because my goal in life is knowledge and that can't be achieved if you don't look clearly at reality. I can tell you some grizzly stories as to how I got to think this way, but that is how I think now.

I have no ego. I long ago found out that ego brings nothing good. I have confidence because of the knowledge I have gained in life but confidence is not ego, it is confidence.

Last but not least, there are 2 kinds of people on this earth and those are givers and takers. A taker thinks only of themselves and a giver thinks of others first. I am a giver and that means that I have compassion, understanding, and ability to be strongly empathic. It is something that a taker cannot understand and he has never learned what it is and what it means.

To wrap this whole dialogue to answer your question, you are wrong that I can't admit that I am wrong. I can admit when I am wrong, but on this I know I am not wrong and perhaps you should take my words to heart and look closer at your own beliefs and at the very minimum look closer at reality and what is truth and what is not.

Look past yourself, past your own ego and listen closely to what others think without commenting back. You would be surprised how much you can actually learn. Here are 5 adages that you should follow:

"Wisdom is the reward you get for a lifetime of listening when you'd have preferred to talk." --Doug Larson
"One of the most sincere forms of respect is actually listening to what another has to say." --Bryant H. McGill
"If you make listening and observation your occupation, you will gain much more than you can by talk." --Robert Baden-Powell
"Listening is a magnetic and strange thing, a creative force. The friends who listen to us are the ones we move toward. When we are listened to, it creates us, makes us unfold and expand." --Karl A. Menniger
"Most of the successful people I've known are the ones who do more listening than talking." --Bernard Baruch

Obviously, you are very impressed by yourself. With all due respect I've seen little objective demonstration that our online persona comes anywhere near that lofty image. I encourage YOU to take the advice you give Trix (bolded) and follow it yourself.

 

[CharisRose]

I mean, you CAN, sure. The level of cognitive dissonance or dishonesty required, though, is off the charts.

Yes, I can.

:attn1: Incoming sarcasm :alert >>>>> Oh my goodness! Based on what you just said about me has changed my mind and my life!!!

I really enjoy a good :joke: thanks for making me laugh!

Roseann

 

[HumblePi]

As long as Congress understands its Constitutional oversight responsibility do not extend to personal affairs, political witch hunting or political grudge fights you are correct. The are not, however the Constitutional kangaroo court you and many others on the left seem to envisionage, charged with getting even for Trump being Her Royal Highness.

I'm pretty sure Congress is aware of their legal Constitutional responsibilities without any of us having to remind them of what they are, or warn them when we think they're overstepping the limits of their power.

 

[Bullseye]

wow, I did not think I was going to be able to prove you wrong so soon. You really stepped into it. You can't be a very intelligent man.

Congress can do just about anything within the law and within what the Constitution says.

Here is an explanation of what Congressional oversight means.



The complaint from Trump right now is that Congress is investigating further (above what Mueller did) and requesting officially that Trump Tax Returns be given by the IRS. In addition, the complaint is also about them requesting that people in his administration testify directly to Congress.

That is all they are requesting and it falls within their legal powers to do so.

You are an easy mark!

So, given your posting on Congressional oversight, exactly where do personal tax returns fall?

 

[HumblePi]

:lamo Like I was just telling my friend, Rosie.
One thing for sure, you are predictable.

Why are you behaving so childishly? This member opened up and was honest with you and instead of taking his words, digesting them and using them to perhaps get a little wiser yourself, you made the choice to act like an immature teenager. That's why Trump won't lose support of those such as yourself. There's not a single cell capable of critical thinking, logic or reasoning in your entire cerebrum.