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Are they Pro-life Christians or just Pro-birth Christians?

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WisconIndependent

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Today it seems that many Christians who call themselves pro-life are really just pro-birth. It can be seen in how Michael Johnson, who calls himself a Christain, is leading the way in cutting programs that hurt the very people Jesus said we should help, the poor. He like most of the other so called Christian GOPers in our legislature are hell bent on cutting those programs so they can give tax cuts for the very wealthy who have no need of them. And those cuts will lead to hunger and homelessness among the very people Jesus walked with when here on earth. So, I see many Christians who call themselves pro-life as just being pro-birth and as soon as those children are out of the womb, they do not give a shit about them.
 
WisconIndependent said:
Today it seems that many Christians who call themselves pro-life are really just pro-birth. It can be seen in how Michael Johnson, who calls himself a Christain, is leading the way in cutting programs that hurt the very people Jesus said we should help, the poor. He like most of the other so called Christian GOPers in our legislature are hell bent on cutting those programs so they can give tax cuts for the very wealthy who have no need of them. And those cuts will lead to hunger and homelessness among the very people Jesus walked with when here on earth. So, I see many Christians who call themselves pro-life as just being pro-birth and as soon as those children are out of the womb, they do not give a shit about them.
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It does seem the left will argue any facet of the abortion debate other than the actual point.

For example, I don't know you. I also think it would be wrong for someone to end your life, yet that concern is in no way less credible because I feel absolutely no obligation to feed, clothe, or house you.

The abortion debate is not about privacy. It's not about social welfare programs. It's not about religion. It's about coming to agreement on what is and what is not a working defintion of human life (with basic human rights). Anything else is noise.
 
WisconIndependent said:
Today it seems that many Christians who call themselves pro-life are really just pro-birth. It can be seen in how Michael Johnson, who calls himself a Christain, is leading the way in cutting programs that hurt the very people Jesus said we should help, the poor. He like most of the other so called Christian GOPers in our legislature are hell bent on cutting those programs so they can give tax cuts for the very wealthy who have no need of them. And those cuts will lead to hunger and homelessness among the very people Jesus walked with when here on earth. So, I see many Christians who call themselves pro-life as just being pro-birth and as soon as those children are out of the womb, they do not give a shit about them.
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PRO FETUS. SURE AS HELL AREN'T PRO LIFE ANYTHING.
 
WisconIndependent said:
Today it seems that many Christians who call themselves pro-life are really just pro-birth. It can be seen in how Michael Johnson, who calls himself a Christain, is leading the way in cutting programs that hurt the very people Jesus said we should help, the poor. He like most of the other so called Christian GOPers in our legislature are hell bent on cutting those programs so they can give tax cuts for the very wealthy who have no need of them. And those cuts will lead to hunger and homelessness among the very people Jesus walked with when here on earth. So, I see many Christians who call themselves pro-life as just being pro-birth and as soon as those children are out of the womb, they do not give a shit about them.
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In my opinion, they aren't even pro birth, they are pro fetus which takes nothing more than them opening their collective mouths and complaining.
 
NatMorton said:
It does seem the left will argue any facet of the abortion debate other than the actual point.

For example, I don't know you. I also think it would be wrong for someone to end your life, yet that concern is in no way less credible because I feel absolutely no obligation to feed, clothe, or house you.

The abortion debate is not about privacy. It's not about social welfare programs. It's not about religion. It's about coming to agreement on what is and what is not a working defintion of human life (with basic human rights). Anything else is noise.
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"Human life" is not in question. Neither is it relevant or being argued. It's about when that "life" is a legal person with rights and protections.
 
WisconIndependent said:
Today it seems that many Christians who call themselves pro-life are really just pro-birth. It can be seen in how Michael Johnson, who calls himself a Christain, is leading the way in cutting programs that hurt the very people Jesus said we should help, the poor. He like most of the other so called Christian GOPers in our legislature are hell bent on cutting those programs so they can give tax cuts for the very wealthy who have no need of them. And those cuts will lead to hunger and homelessness among the very people Jesus walked with when here on earth. So, I see many Christians who call themselves pro-life as just being pro-birth and as soon as those children are out of the womb, they do not give a shit about them.
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They only care about quantity of life and ignore quality of life. It's also sanctimonious political pandering to one's constituents.
 
Gordy327 said:
Of course not. They simply whine along the lines of "won't somebody please think of the children?"
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Somebody please think of the children because us republicans only care about a fetus, someone, anyone?
 
You have to understand that in Christian thought, the gift of life is God's gift. Without God, there is no Life. Based on that logic, if you abort your child, you are essentially rejecting God's gift, and by extension rejecting God.

But what about after the child is born, you ask? Well, according to Christian thought, life is also God's trial, and so whatever misfortunes that child goes through after birth is also as God wills it.

Just from that reasoning alone, you can see where the anti-abortion stance comes from. It's less to do with the philosophical debate about when life begins and more about them burning in Hell for rejecting their God.
 
NatMorton said:
It does seem the left will argue any facet of the abortion debate other than the actual point.

For example, I don't know you. I also think it would be wrong for someone to end your life, yet that concern is in no way less credible because I feel absolutely no obligation to feed, clothe, or house you.

The abortion debate is not about privacy. It's not about social welfare programs. It's not about religion. It's about coming to agreement on what is and what is not a working defintion of human life (with basic human rights). Anything else is noise.
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That wouldnt "fix" the issue since it's inside a woman and cannot be acted on or protected by the govt without violating many of the woman's rights. But you already know this.

One or the other's rights would supersede the other's, creating a new "2nd class citizen." And SCOTUS made it clear previously that women are equal to men. It's no surprise they wont touch changing the determination for the unborn.
 
Lursa said:
That wouldnt "fix" the issue since it's inside a woman and cannot be acted on or protected by the govt without violating many of the woman's rights. But you already know this.
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So what? When two people's rights are in conflict at least one of them will have their right violated. It happens in law all the time.
 
WisconIndependent said:
Today it seems that many Christians who call themselves pro-life are really just pro-birth. It can be seen in how Michael Johnson, who calls himself a Christain, is leading the way in cutting programs that hurt the very people Jesus said we should help, the poor. He like most of the other so called Christian GOPers in our legislature are hell bent on cutting those programs so they can give tax cuts for the very wealthy who have no need of them. And those cuts will lead to hunger and homelessness among the very people Jesus walked with when here on earth. So, I see many Christians who call themselves pro-life as just being pro-birth and as soon as those children are out of the womb, they do not give a shit about them.
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They aren't Christians at all. They are the Pharisees.
 
Operative13 said:
You have to understand that in Christian thought, the gift of life is God's gift. Without God, there is no Life. Based on that logic, if you abort your child, you are essentially rejecting God's gift, and by extension rejecting God.

But what about after the child is born, you ask? Well, according to Christian thought, life is also God's trial, and so whatever misfortunes that child goes through after birth is also as God wills it.

Just from that reasoning alone, you can see where the anti-abortion stance comes from. It's less to do with the philosophical debate about when life begins and more about them burning in Hell for rejecting their God.
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That is christian belief and applies to christians. No one is bound to follow those beliefs either. Neither is one's abortion decisions their or anyone else's business or concern.
 
NatMorton said:
So what? When two people's rights are in conflict at least one of them will have their right violated. It happens in law all the time.
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So list some, let's take a look at the violations. The courts use the balancing test, so we can look at them with that in mind.

If you want to make the argument that a right to life superseded all others, that cant be accepted at face value, people choose to give up their right to life all the time, for family, country, religion, principle, country, etc.

A woman is actually consenting to that risk when she chooses to have a baby.
 
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Gordy327 said:
That is christian belief and applies to christians. No one is bound to follow those beliefs either. Neither is one's abortion decisions their or anyone else's business or concern.
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True, but that alone doesn't stop people from trying. It is an inescapable reality that there will always be people that believe everyone should live the way they want them to.
 
NatMorton said:
It does seem the left will argue any facet of the abortion debate other than the actual point.

For example, I don't know you. I also think it would be wrong for someone to end your life, yet that concern is in no way less credible because I feel absolutely no obligation to feed, clothe, or house you.

The abortion debate is not about privacy. It's not about social welfare programs. It's not about religion. It's about coming to agreement on what is and what is not a working defintion of human life (with basic human rights). Anything else is noise.
Click to expand...
"I feel absolutely no obligation to feed, clothe, or house you." Obviously you don't wish to be a follower of Christ (Christian) if you don't believe that, to be one, you must do what Christ told his "righteous" followers in Matthew 25: 35-40.

So, yes, that belief is much less credible.
 
Operative13 said:
True, but that alone doesn't stop people from trying. It is an inescapable reality that there will always be people that believe everyone should live the way they want them to.
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Yes, many people are sanctimoniously arrogant. I have no problem calling them out as such too. But there are those who will oppose such efforts. Fortunately, I am not obligated to live as anyone else does and vice versa.
 
Lursa said:
So list some, let's take a look at the violations. The courts use the balancing test, so we can look at them with that in mind.
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We don’t need to because you just acknowledged I’m right. When the “balancing test” is done, someone loses the battle of whose right wins.

Lursa said:
If you want to make the argument that a right to life superseded all others, that cant be accepted at face value, people choose to give up their right to life all the time, for family, country, religion, principle, country, etc.

A woman is actually consenting to that risk when she chooses to have a baby.
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I’m not making that argument.
 
dockside said:
"I feel absolutely no obligation to feed, clothe, or house you." Obviously you don't wish to be a follower of Christ (Christian) if you don't believe that, to be one, you must do what Christ told his "righteous" followers in Matthew 25: 35-40.

So, yes, that belief is much less credible.
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I’m not a Christian.
 
Yeah, there totally aren't any charities that are run or funded by Christians.
 
NatMorton said:
We don’t need to because you just acknowledged I’m right. When the “balancing test” is done, someone loses the battle of whose right wins.
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Yeah and I gave one reason why it wont fly. So...feel free to admit that it is most likely that fetal rights will not supersede women's rights in that balancing or present an argument (examples) why it's not.

NatMorton said:
I’m not making that argument.
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Good. Then I really want to see what you feel would work in the balancing test...like in the examples you'll provide.

Skip the runaround please, put up or...?
 
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