Are rights objectively real?

[jet57]

you going to have to make yourself more clear in what you are saying.

as far as the constitution goes, i quoted article 3 section 2 on cases of equity.

Show me 1 law" you said: 1st amendment, I said.

Trial by jury...

What did you mean?

 

[Master PO]

ANd you dont read entire posts. Even a short one like what you are responding to.

I said " And yes I know that our rights stop where others begin." But you probably stopped at the sentence that you bolded.


If a right is natural I do not need document to exercise my natural rights. I only need the document to protect my natural rights from others trying to take my rights away. Mostly it has to do with protecting my natural rights against the governments attempt to take them away. The part about our rights stopping where other (peoples) rights begin is a artificial compromise. Without a government and a Constitution my natural rights are above everyone elses. Thats why the Constitution exists in the first place. So that I cannot just kill other people that threaten my natural rights. ANd more importantly so that the government cannot kill me for no good reason.

It is my natural right to do what think is best for myself and my family and friends. But under the Constitution (thankfully) I cannot exercise my natural right to its fullest. If I could it would be called anarchy. And society would be reduced down survival of the fittest. “Maybe there is a beast… maybe it's only us.”

when i see, "well i can use my ability to kill or hurt people", it already tells me the person has no understanding of rights, and that person has not read the previous post were the same thing has been said over and over...case closed

 

[jet57]

rights are not made by law.......please provide a statute in creating a right


rights are unwritten law, not written law

The - how - pray tell are they created?

 

[Quag]

rights are not made by law.......please provide a statute in creating a right


rights are unwritten law, not written law

Right | Define Right at Dictionary.com

You are confusing rights with abilities.
Your right to free speech depends on where/when you live, some places have it others dont.
Your ability to speak is not a right. If you are mute you lack the ability to speak but your rights regarding speech remain the same as if you could speak.

 

[Master PO]

Show me 1 law" you said: 1st amendment, I said.

Trial by jury...

What did you mean?

:lamo, this is why you FAIL

because you keep thinking the bill of rights grants rights to people AND GIVES GOVERNMENT POWERS, and you have been proven wrong many times.


the bill of rights are restrictions on federal power, and they only recognize rights of the people.

The U.S. Bill of Rights

The Preamble to The Bill of Rights

Congress of the United States
begun and held at the City of New-York, on
Wednesday the fourth of March, one thousand seven hundred and eighty nine.

THE Conventions of a number of the States, having at the time of their adopting the Constitution, expressed a desire, in order to prevent misconstruction or abuse of its [*federal] powers, that further declaratory and restrictive clauses should be added: And as extending the ground of public confidence in the Government, will best ensure the beneficent ends of its institution.

*added by me

 

[Master PO]

Right | Define Right at Dictionary.com

You are confusing rights with abilities.
Your right to free speech depends on where/when you live, some places have it others dont.
Your ability to speak is not a right. If you are mute you lack the ability to speak but your rights regarding speech remain the same as if you could speak.

Unwritten Law
Unwritten rules, principles, and norms that have the effect and force of law though they have not been formally enacted by the government.

Most laws in America are written. The U.S. Code, the Code of Federal Regulations, and the Federal Rules of Civil Procedure are three examples of written laws that are frequently cited in federal court. Each state has a similar body of written laws. By contrast, unwritten law consists of those customs, traditions, practices, usages, and other maxims of human conduct that the government has recognized and enforced.


Unwritten law is most commonly found in primitive societies where illiteracy is prevalent. Because many residents in such societies cannot read or write, there is little point in publishing written laws to govern their conduct. Instead, societal disputes in primitive societies are resolved informally, through appeal to unwritten maxims of fairness or popularly accepted modes of behavior. Litigants present their claims orally in most primitive societies, and judges announce their decisions in the same fashion. The governing body in primitive societies typically enforces the useful traditions that are widely practiced in the community, while those practices that are novel or harmful fall into disuse or are discouraged.
Much of International Law is a form of primitive unwritten law. For centuries the Rules of War governing hostilities between belligerents consisted of a body of unwritten law. While some of these rules have been codified by international bodies such as the United Nations, many have not. For example, retaliatory reprisals against acts of Terrorism by a foreign government are still governed by unwritten customs in the international community. Each nation also retains discretion in formulating a response to the aggressive acts of a neighboring state.

In the United States, unwritten law takes on a variety of forms. In Constitutional Law the Supreme Court has ruled that the due process clause of the Fifth and Fourteenth Amendments to the U.S. Constitution protects the right to privacy even though the word privacy is not mentioned in the written text of the Constitution. In Commercial Law the Uniform Commercial Code permits merchants to resolve legal disputes by introducing evidence of unwritten customs, practices, and usages that others in the same trade generally follow. The entire body of Common Law, comprising cases decided by judges on matters relating to torts and contracts, among other things, is said to reflect unwritten standards that have evolved over time. In each case, however, once a court, legislature, or other government body formally adopts a standard, principle, or Maxim in writing, it ceases to be an unwritten law.

Unwritten Law legal definition of Unwritten Law

 

[Master PO]

The - how - pray tell are they created?

some rights are recognized by the constitution, and others like right to privacy are recognized by the USSC, congress has not created any rights

 

[radcen]

everyone has the NATURAL ABILITY TO speak, pray, associate, create....among others which do not require assistance from another entity.

it's not a new track, i have stated before many times, that a natural right is NATURAL TO THE BODY, this is what defines a right.

AND I am going to post this again.

THE U.S. FEDERAL GOVERNMENT, VIA ENABLING LAWS ALONG WITH THE STATE GOVERNMENTS OF THE U.S. RECOGNIZE NATURAL LAW.

THE U.S. CONSTITUTION ARTICLE 3 SECTION 2 STATES ... CASES OF EQUITY, AND ARE ADJUDICATED FROM NATURAL LAW.

So... it's natural to (from, really) the body, not the person. Body's change and/or change their mind. Which means it's not natural, it's artificial and arbitrary. Which means the only rights you have are those which someone bigger and stronger than you allow you to have. Which is precisely what I've been saying all along.

Side note: The "new track" re the word 'ability' is that I do not recall you using that specific word, at least not as heavily as you are in this thread.

 

[jet57]

:lamo, this is why you FAIL

because you keep thinking the bill of rights grants rights to people AND GIVES GOVERNMENT POWERS, and you have been proven wrong many times.


the bill of rights are restrictions on federal power, and they only recognize rights of the people.

The U.S. Bill of Rights

The Preamble to The Bill of Rights

Congress of the United States
begun and held at the City of New-York, on
Wednesday the fourth of March, one thousand seven hundred and eighty nine.

THE Conventions of a number of the States, having at the time of their adopting the Constitution, expressed a desire, in order to prevent misconstruction or abuse of its [*federal] powers, that further declaratory and restrictive clauses should be added: And as extending the ground of public confidence in the Government, will best ensure the beneficent ends of its institution.

*added by me

I've already asked you; which goes to your assertion; from where do these pre -existing rights derive?

 

[Master PO]

So... it's natural to (from, really) the body, not the person. Body's change and/or change their mind. Which means it's not natural, it's artificial and arbitrary. Which means the only rights you have are those which someone bigger and stronger than you allow you to have. Which is precisely what I've been saying all along.

Side note: The "new track" re the word 'ability' is that I do not recall you using that specific word, at least not as heavily as you are in this thread.

i have stated many times, that rights are of the body, or natural to the body, we have many rights we exercise everyday, and don't even think about.

rights are not created by law, again if anyone thinks they are show me the law.

 

[Master PO]

View attachment 67206133

I've already asked you; which goes to your assertion; from where do these pre -existing rights derive?

:lamo

when the bill of rights preamble is presented to you, and it shows that they are restrictions on federal power, and not a grant of power, ..you deny it......this is why you fail all the time

 

[Quag]

Unwritten Law
Unwritten rules, principles, and norms that have the effect and force of law though they have not been formally enacted by the government.


Most laws in America are written. The U.S. Code, the Code of Federal Regulations, and the Federal Rules of Civil Procedure are three examples of written laws that are frequently cited in federal court. Each state has a similar body of written laws. By contrast, unwritten law consists of those customs, traditions, practices, usages, and other maxims of human conduct that the government has recognized and enforced.


Unwritten law is most commonly found in primitive societies where illiteracy is prevalent. Because many residents in such societies cannot read or write, there is little point in publishing written laws to govern their conduct. Instead, societal disputes in primitive societies are resolved informally, through appeal to unwritten maxims of fairness or popularly accepted modes of behavior. Litigants present their claims orally in most primitive societies, and judges announce their decisions in the same fashion. The governing body in primitive societies typically enforces the useful traditions that are widely practiced in the community, while those practices that are novel or harmful fall into disuse or are discouraged.
Much of International Law is a form of primitive unwritten law. For centuries the Rules of War governing hostilities between belligerents consisted of a body of unwritten law. While some of these rules have been codified by international bodies such as the United Nations, many have not. For example, retaliatory reprisals against acts of Terrorism by a foreign government are still governed by unwritten customs in the international community. Each nation also retains discretion in formulating a response to the aggressive acts of a neighboring state.

In the United States, unwritten law takes on a variety of forms. In Constitutional Law the Supreme Court has ruled that the due process clause of the Fifth and Fourteenth Amendments to the U.S. Constitution protects the right to privacy even though the word privacy is not mentioned in the written text of the Constitution. In Commercial Law the Uniform Commercial Code permits merchants to resolve legal disputes by introducing evidence of unwritten customs, practices, and usages that others in the same trade generally follow. The entire body of Common Law, comprising cases decided by judges on matters relating to torts and contracts, among other things, is said to reflect unwritten standards that have evolved over time. In each case, however, once a court, legislature, or other government body formally adopts a standard, principle, or Maxim in writing, it ceases to be an unwritten law.

Unwritten Law legal definition of Unwritten Law

By contrast, unwritten law consists of those customs, traditions, practices, usages, and other maxims of human conduct that the government has recognized and enforced.

Bolded is from your quote and destroys your claims of natural rights.
All those things change depending on the time/place society you live in. They are by definition subjective and thus cannot be objective.

 

[Lethargic Aptitude]

when i see, "well i can use my ability to kill or hurt people", it already tells me the person has no understanding of rights, and that person has not read the previous post were the same thing has been said over and over...case closed

Again you do not seem to have read my entire post (or at all). There is no natural right that says that you have to respect other peoples natural rights. The concept is entirely out of context to what is defined as a natural right.

We have a legal right that protects us from the government and people that wish to take away our natural rights. That is because if you take natural rights to their fullest as a inherently individualist position then collective rights have no meaning. In other words my natural rights do trump your natural rights from my point of view, but the Constitution legally gives us the legal right to stop such behavior.

 

[Master PO]

Again you do not seem to have read my entire post (or at all). There is no natural right that says that you have to respect other peoples natural rights. The concept is entirely out of context to what is defined as a natural right.

We have a legal right that protects us from the government and people that wish to take away our natural rights. That is because if you take natural rights to their fullest as a inherently individualist position then collective rights have no meaning. In other words my natural rights do trump your natural rights from my point of view, but the Constitution legally gives us the legal right to stop such behavior.

you must know that we create government to secure rights, that is the sole purpose of government.

if we as a people never violated the rights of others---"no government would be necessary"

 

[Lethargic Aptitude]

By contrast, unwritten law consists of those customs, traditions, practices, usages, and other maxims of human conduct that the government has recognized and enforced.

Bolded is from your quote and destroys your claims of natural rights.
All those things change depending on the time/place society you live in. They are by definition subjective and thus cannot be objective.

The idea is that the concept of natural rights is objective even though those rights are subjective. Objectively we all have opinions even though they are not the same opinions. Not that Po was saying that.

 

[Master PO]

By contrast, unwritten law consists of those customs, traditions, practices, usages, and other maxims of human conduct that the government has recognized and enforced.

Bolded is from your quote and destroys your claims of natural rights.
All those things change depending on the time/place society you live in. They are by definition subjective and thus cannot be objective.

sorry but wrong,. rights are unwritten law


In the United States, unwritten law takes on a variety of forms. In Constitutional Law the Supreme Court has ruled that the due process clause of the Fifth and Fourteenth Amendments to the U.S. Constitution protects the right to privacy even though the word privacy is not mentioned in the written text of the Constitution.

right to privacy is unwritten law

 

[Quag]

The idea is that the concept of natural rights is objective even though those rights are subjective. Objectively we all have opinions even though they are not the same opinions. Not that Po was saying that.

If they are subjective they are meanignless as a concept.
and they are subjective thus............

 

[Lethargic Aptitude]

you must know that we create government to secure rights, that is the sole purpose of government.

if we as a people never violated the rights of others---"no government would be necessary"

Of course and that is what I said. But I also said that there is a difference between our natural rights and our legal rights. We have a legal right that protects our natural rights. We do not have a natural right that protects our natural rights. Natural rights cannot protect anything really.

 

[Quag]

sorry but wrong,. rights are unwritten law

Sorry but no they arent.

In the United States, unwritten law takes on a variety of forms. In Constitutional Law the Supreme Court has ruled that the due process clause of the Fifth and Fourteenth Amendments to the U.S. Constitution protects the right to privacy even though the word privacy is not mentioned in the written text of the Constitution.

right to privacy is unwritten law

Doesnt matter. Right to privacy is not a natural right. It is an unwritten right in the USA that the supreme court recognizes nothing more.
It doesnt exist in some soceities, if it was natural it would exist in all places in all times throughout history in all societies.

 

[Master PO]

Of course and that is what I said. But I also said that there is a difference between our natural rights and our legal rights. We have a legal right that protects our natural rights. We do not have a natural right that protects our natural rights. Natural rights cannot protect anything really.

privileges of the constitution, are - civil rights/legal rights, and are created by government.

natural rights requires the standing back by government or people so they can be exercised only.

privileges require a action for them to be exercised by another entity, rights don't required an action by another entity

 

[Master PO]

Sorry but no they arent.




Doesnt matter. Right to privacy is not a natural right. It is an unwritten right in the USA that the supreme court recognizes nothing more.
It doesnt exist in some soceities, if it was natural it would exist in all places in all times throughout history in all societies.

sorry but right to privacy is a natural right because the USSC has recognized it as so, the congress did not create a right.

 

[Henrin]

Sorry but no they arent.




Doesnt matter. Right to privacy is not a natural right. It is an unwritten right in the USA that the supreme court recognizes nothing more.
It doesnt exist in some soceities, if it was natural it would exist in all places in all times throughout history in all societies.

So did the workings of the body exist before people knew about it? For example, did the heart pump blood before human beings knew the heart did that?

 

[radcen]

i have stated many times, that rights are of the body, or natural to the body, we have many rights we exercise everyday, and don't even think about.

rights are not created by law, again if anyone thinks they are show me the law.

The word "right" does not imply physical ability to do something, it implies moral ability to be allowed to do something even if it's uncomfortable for others (i.e.: speaking against government). Everybody in the world has the physical ability to speak against government. Yet many people in many places will die for doing so.

 

[radcen]

privileges of the constitution, are - civil rights/legal rights, and are created by government.

natural rights requires the standing back by government or people so they can be exercised only.

privileges require a action for them to be exercised by another entity, rights don't required an action by another entity

Both require INaction, which is a form of action, by the government.

 

[Henrin]

The word "right" does not imply physical ability to do something, it implies moral ability to be allowed to do something even if it's uncomfortable for others (i.e.: speaking against government). Everybody in the world has the physical ability to speak against government. Yet many people in many places will die for doing so.

For the sake of the discussion it does however. Natural rights are based on body sovereignty and the rights in which it speaks come about from the body. Therefore, the abilities of the body are in fact the right of the person to maintain, keep and practice.