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Are Neighborhood Crime Watch groups criminal organizations?

MaggieD said:
I think this thread is finally getting close to approaching reason. As opposed to a lynch mob mentality that is grabbing at straws. First, the lack of injuries supposedly shown in the police station video -- Nope! They're not there. He must be lying! Well, that's now been debunked. Next: He's a racist! He said "coon"! Now that's been debunked. Now those blood-thirsty posters have mostly reverted to, "Well, we need a full investigation." Yes. Yes, we do. And that's happening.
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Oh come now Maggie, those lynch mobs are out there! They are in the backwoods, they are in the swamps, they are in the estuary and shell islands! They have 4x4 pick up trucks and 3x5 semi aquatic assault pick ups trucks and boats and they have confederate flags waving from them and they carry AR15's and probably rocket launchers too. And they are out there and they will do things the way their granddaddy did. And other just poorly written sophistry.

Yes reason, a nice dose of reason would be the doctor's prescription for this thread and its author.
 
Gie said:
So Zimmerman was a "neighborhood watch" of one, not part of any organized neighborhood watch and was carrying a gun which is uncommon in neighborhood watch groups. Just like I said. Since you don't know and can't figure out what neighborhood watch groups do usually carry, you again just proved you don't have much knowledge about how they operate. Which is probably why you are babbling about back woods folks, confederate flags and what is it now, racism?:roll:
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OK, I guess I can understand your ignoring my gotjas!
 
MaggieD said:
The largest national association of neighborhood watch programs does not condone either carrying weapons or approaching suspicious people. However, Zimmerman had a license to carry. And he was on his way to the store, not patrolling the neighborhood.

Neighborhood watch volunteers are supposed to be the eyes and ears of the community. Not the enforcers. Neighborhoods around the Chicago area have signs, for instance, on every stop sign in a community, reminding people to call 911 if they see anything suspicious. To me? That's the heart of these types of programs...everybody who lives in the neighborhood is educated to call and report.

I think this is a tragic incident. From everything we know so far, it doesn't sound like Zimmerman broke the law. But when he got out of his car in response to this "suspicious" young man, he set a series of events in motion that caused Martin's death.
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Most neighborhood watches really are just the signs and generally few, if anyone, actual is doing anything. People think those signs deter burglary, but they don't.

Personally, I think anyone who IS out "watching for suspicious activity and crime" who is unarmed is a fool. If Zimmerman's account is truthful, he proves it. And obviously an armed citizen can't do much to come to someone's aid either.

You seem to think of a car as a tank. True "Chicago" story. A fella, ex Marine in his 30s, saw a couple of teens smash a car window in a parking lot. He stopped and phoned the police. As he did, the two ran over, smashed out his window and having just gotten in and belt not on, they dragged him out through his Jeep Cherokee window, kicked the xxxxx out of him, and stole his wallet. Yes, he was white and yes they were African-American.

Sorta like the Zimmerman story, only there were two and he "safely" in his vehicle.

The actual "reality" of most neighborhood crime watches is there isn't one. Just signs.

In Florida, there are now nearly 1,000,000 permits to carry concealed firearms. Do you REALLY think ANYONE who has one is going to leave it at home because for reasons of liability of the private national association (if they joined it) says don't be armed to protect the association from liabilities?

You seem to view cars as a fortress. Candidly, if someone is coming at me the last place I want to be is hindered inside a vehicle. I don't have much mobility sitting in that seat. If the motor is running, sure I can race away - or can I? If they stand in front of my vehicle do I then just run over them with my 6,000 pound "deadly weapon?"
 
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Gie said:
Oh come now Maggie, those lynch mobs are out there! They are in the backwoods, they are in the swamps, they are in the estuary and shell islands! They have 4x4 pick up trucks and 3x5 semi aquatic assault pick ups trucks and boats and they have confederate flags waving from them and they carry AR15's and probably rocket launchers too. And they are out there and they will do things the way their granddaddy did. And other just poorly written sophistry.

Yes reason, a nice dose of reason would be the doctor's prescription for this thread and its author.
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^A person raging because I caught you fibbing, so you divert with raging.

People who know areas of central and West Florida do understand this is old KKK territory and racism abounds. It was an hour away in Gainesville of the videos showing a mob shouting at Muslims to get out of the country, calling them terrorists, merely because they were Muslim. I would guess half the national stories of violence against minorities will come out of this region. There is a reason these counties are generally over 90% white, when in general the South has high minority percentage populations. It is because they so terrorized them, refused to allow employment, and - if in the wrong areas - murdered them. But terrorizing them usually is all it did (and does) take.

Only the everglades and Louisianna swamps more suited for disposal of bodies. From the end of the Civil War to the beginning of WWII, it was not tenable for blacks to live here except the few in acceptable roles as maids, groundskeepers etc - and then living in the small black part of town (that still exists as essentially a segregated community.) There are areas in the islands and backwoods/woodland swamps where you could go to 200 houses and 100% of the occupants are white in 100% of those. 10 to 20 of those will be openly displaying a Confederate flag. There are entire areas that are and always have been 100% white. And deliberately with only 1 long road in and out through the marshes and woodland swamps and connecting the islands. This also is old bootlegger and contraband country. Signs reading "trespassers will be shot" are common - and they mean it. No call to 911. Just another missing person.

So rage on to divert that I caught you just making up false claims about the Lawton neighborhood crime watch by my linking to the website.

My "point" in this thread? Many. First, with neighborhood crime watch SO villified and adding every manner of those doing so much give up self defense and their gun rights, they are not really tenable much anymore. Second, it is clear the media, talking heads and the president used this relatively trivial story in the scope of things for the political goals of 1.) diverting away from the national talk being about ObamaCare before the Supreme Court, it being unfavored by 70% of people and 2.) to try to mobilize the A-A community to flock to the polls against by turning this matter into a race-issue, when it's not a race issue at all.

However, firing up people on race-anger, bigotry and hatred can't be limited to only African-Americans and only to political advantages. This case and particularly when the African-American president involved is a lighting rod to white racists and segregationists. In some areas this would predictably have terrible and real effects. Mine is one of those areas. It was the "Yankee" retirees and snowbirds (a very large percentage of population in central Florida) and police combined that kept racism in check. This also made the "political force," meaning anti-racism officials. With the retirees either bailing out or switching sides, it is a huge reversal and a complete shift of the balance of power. The incumbent Sheriff acknowledges that due to this all he has NO chance of re-election as one example.
 
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joko104 said:
OK, I guess I can understand your ignoring my gotjas!
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No you keep demonstrating you don't understand much at all. You have a grab bag full of idiotic drek you keep pulling goodies from. I'm hardly ignoring it, in fact you could say I'm mocking it in post#76.

joko104 said:
^A person raging because I caught you fibbing, so you divert with raging.

People who know areas of central and West Florida do understand this is old KKK territory and racism abounds. It was an hour away in Gainesville of the videos showing a mob shouting at Muslims to get out of the country, calling them terrorists, merely because they were Muslim. I would guess half the national stories of violence against minorities will come out of this region. There is a reason these counties are generally over 90% white, when in general the South has high minority percentage populations. It is because they so terrorized them, refused to allow employment, and - if in the wrong areas - murdered them. But terrorizing them usually is all it did (and does) take.

Only the everglades and Louisianna swamps more suited for disposal of bodies. From the end of the Civil War to the beginning of WWII, it was not tenable for blacks to live here except the few in acceptable roles as maids, groundskeepers etc - and then living in the small black part of town (that still exists as essentially a segregated community.) There are areas in the islands and backwoods/woodland swamps where you could go to 200 houses and 100% of the occupants are white in 100% of those. 10 to 20 of those will be openly displaying a Confederate flag. There are entire areas that are and always have been 100% white. And deliberately with only 1 long road in and out through the marshes and woodland swamps and connecting the islands. This also is old bootlegger and contraband country. Signs reading "trespassers will be shot" are common - and they mean it. No call to 911. Just another missing person.

So rage on to divert that I caught you just making up false claims about the Lawton neighborhood crime watch by my linking to the website.

My "point" in this thread? Many. First, with neighborhood crime watch SO villified and adding every manner of those doing so much give up self defense and their gun rights, they are not really tenable much anymore. Second, it is clear the media, talking heads and the president used this relatively trivial story in the scope of things for the political goals of 1.) diverting away from the national talk being about ObamaCare before the Supreme Court, it being unfavored by 70% of people and 2.) to try to mobilize the A-A community to flock to the polls against by turning this matter into a race-issue, when it's not a race issue at all.

However, firing up people on race-anger, bigotry and hatred can't be limited to only African-Americans and only to political advantages. This case and particularly when the African-American president involved is a lighting rod to white racists and segregationists. In some areas this would predictably have terrible and real effects. Mine is one of those areas. It was the "Yankee" retirees and snowbirds (a very large percentage of population in central Florida) and police combined that kept racism in check. This also made the "political force," meaning anti-racism officials. With the retirees either bailing out or switching sides, it is a huge reversal and a complete shift of the balance of power. The incumbent Sheriff acknowledges that due to this all he has NO chance of re-election as one example.
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You obviously have confused me with someone else. In any case, the only facts you bring to the table are pulled from your own ass IMO. I don't think anyone here cares about your anecdotal relations of "facts" which have nothing to do with neighborhood watches in the first place. Speaking of neighborhood watches, they are not as you say, so vilified. We could wait for all eternity for you to produce some reliable source for this claim, but then the source of this factoid, like so many of yours (like most neighborhood watches are just signs) is your imagination. A rather limited one at that.

You have only weak sauce to offer with your overcooked goose.
 
This act of yours really isn't necessary to dodge that your message about all the restrictions on the Lawton OK neighborhood crime watch was all 100% false.

Hopefully for your sake you can live your whole life in the reality of video games, cable television and internet forums.
 
joko104 said:
This act of yours really isn't necessary to dodge that your message about all the restrictions on the Lawton OK neighborhood crime watch was all 100% false.

Hopefully for your sake you can live your whole life in the reality of video games, cable television and internet forums.
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One more time, try to keep up here. You obviously have confused me with someone else. In any case, the only facts you bring to the table are pulled from your own ass IMO. I don't think anyone here cares about your anecdotal relations of "facts" which have nothing to do with neighborhood watches in the first place. Speaking of neighborhood watches, they are not as you say, so vilified. We could wait for all eternity for you to produce some reliable source for this claim, but then the source of this factoid, like so many of yours (like most neighborhood watches are just signs) is your imagination. A rather limited one at that.

You have only weak sauce to offer with your overcooked goose. Let me give you an example. You make the idiotic claim that most neighborhood watches are really just signs. You just demonstrated again that you have not got a clue what you are talking about. There are indeed signs that hang all over neighborhoods across America that champion the neighborhood watch concept, telling citizens if they see something wrong or suspicious, call this number. They even all have the same logos and color scheme. These are signs. They are not "neighborhood watch" groups, organized or otherwise. Yet here you are telling us most neighborhood watches are just inanimate objects, signs. My subdivision has these signs, we don't have a neighborhood watch program or organization patrolling our subdivision. I don't think even the moron that lives on the cul de sac around the corner, that everyone including the deed restriction committee has so much trouble with, I don't think even that idiot thinks a bloody sign is a neighborhood watch organization.

From your opening post until now you have proven over and over again you have not got a clue what you are talking about. Which is why you keep trying to change the subject to the evil dangers lurking in the backwoods swamps and shell islands with 4x4 pick up trucks and 3x5 semi aquatic assault pick ups trucks with confederate flags waving from them and they carry AR15's and probably rocket launchers too.
 
You attempted to assert truisms about the Lawton OK neighborhood crime watch, and I researched it and demonstrated your assertions were exactly false. So you're in no position to continue to assert your view of reality while demanding I prove mine. Its already known your assertions are untrue.
 
joko104 said:
You attempted to assert truisms about the Lawton OK neighborhood crime watch, and I researched it and demonstrated your assertions were exactly false. So you're in no position to continue to assert your view of reality while demanding I prove mine. Its already known your assertions are untrue.
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No I did not. One more time, seriously try to grasp what I am saying to you, 3rd time. You obviously have confused me with someone else. Read: A different poster. How all of this escapes you when the names of the posters you are replying to are so clearly and obviously easy to read is beyond me. But then we have you pulling all sorts of idiotic assertions out of your ass as if they were gospel nuggets of knowledge. I've highlighted several on this page. Your "act" is to dodge them, avoid them, duck them and I guess act like you are too stupid to figure out I've not said a thing about Lawton OK or Lawton OK neighborhood watch. Congratulations, your "act" has convinced me.

Now you can get back to blabbering about the evil dangers of neighborhood watches (presumably not neighborhood watch signs) lurking in the backwoods swamps and shell islands with 4x4 pick up trucks and 3x5 semi aquatic assault pick ups trucks with confederate flags waving from them and they carry AR15's and probably rocket launchers too! And they are gonna do thangs the way their granddaddies did it, ya know back when their grandaddies were either in old time neighborhood watches or were just neighborhood watch signs.
 
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I understand.
 
MaggieD said:
The largest national association of neighborhood watch programs does not condone either carrying weapons or approaching suspicious people. However, Zimmerman had a license to carry. And he was on his way to the store, not patrolling the neighborhood.
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It could be argued that a neighborhood watch person is "always" patrolling the neighborhood.
 
radcen said:
It could be argued that a neighborhood watch person is "always" patrolling the neighborhood.
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All good neighbors do - or I should say did. Good neighbors are quite rare in the "civilized" USA. Now being a good neighbor is basically illegal anyway. Its everyone for him and herself. That's the law now.
 
joko104 said:
All good neighbors do - or I should say did. Good neighbors are quite rare in the "civilized" USA. Now being a good neighbor is basically illegal anyway. Its everyone for him and herself. That's the law now.
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Of course not.... you are just expected to call 911 and hide in a closet under an afghan until the police come to save the dayyyyyYyYyy!
 
justabubba said:
actually, if the HOA in zimmerman's community is successfully sued because of his actions it would not be unexpected to see other communities disband their own (sanctioned) neighborhood watch organizations
Daily Kos: Trayvon Martin's parents could potentially sue homeowners association
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I don't think they have much of a case.

The fact that he was a member of the HOA Neighborhood watch means jack **** in comparison to his actions.

He was not "on patrol", he was not "in uniform" he did not approach "in an Official HOA capacity"

He was doing what any person in the neighborhood, Watch member or not, could legally do, observe and report and keep observing.
 
Caine said:
I don't think they have much of a case.

The fact that he was a member of the HOA Neighborhood watch means jack **** in comparison to his actions.

He was not "on patrol", he was not "in uniform" he did not approach "in an Official HOA capacity"

He was doing what any person in the neighborhood, Watch member or not, could legally do, observe and report and keep observing.
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he was the captain of their neighborhood watch organization (hell, he was their entire 'force')
 
justabubba said:
he was the captain of their neighborhood watch organization (hell, he was their entire 'force')
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So?

That doesn't mean he was acting on their behalf at that time......
 
Caine said:
So?

That doesn't mean he was acting on their behalf at that time......
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how so
he was the neighborhood watch captain
watching a suspect
calling it in on 911
lots of room for a lawsuit; potentially, a successful one
 
justabubba said:
how so
he was the neighborhood watch captain
watching a suspect
calling it in on 911
lots of room for a lawsuit; potentially, a successful one
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Well, yeah.... Civil lawsuits are about the most ignorant thing sometimes.
 
That HOA is totally vulnerable. Zimmerman organized a watch meeting and invited a member of the PD. That roe told the group they were not to be armed and were to call in suspicious activity. He is named in an HOA newsletter as the captain.

The security detail in my neighborhood drives past homes of people out of town and rings the doorbell if the garage door is open--that's about it.
 
joko104 said:
Thebest defense is offense. Zimmerman should sue the Martins for slander. Anyone can sue anyone.
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If I were him, I would wait until found not guilty and then do that to the parents, Al Sharpton, MSNBC (If Al called Zimmerman a "murderer" or stated Zimmerman "murdered" Martin while on his MSNBC show), Jackson, and a whole slew of other people, whatever I could dig up in the media.
 
Caine said:
Well, yeah.... Civil lawsuits are about the most ignorant thing sometimes.
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may be
but if the plaintiff prevails against that HOA, we could reasonably expect other community watch organizations, nationwide, to disband
which brings us back to my original point
 
joko104 said:
Thebest defense is offense. Zimmerman should sue the Martins for slander. Anyone can sue anyone.
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he should stand pat and let those folks keep speaking to the media. just this morning, the dead kid's mother offered that she believes the shooting was an accident
the day after the authorities charge the shooter with second degree murder
no, zimmerman wants that mom (and dad) to keep on talking
they are his best 'witnesses'
 
Knowing young blacks typically have no respect for authority in uniform Zimmerman has probably has had to tolerate a great deal of verbal slop from the young punks in the neighborhood. If I have a neighborhood watch then it is the call of the residents as to what type of patrol persons they want. Just know one thing, if there is someone determined to get you they wil not knock on your door, they will kick it in and "get" you. So, if you prefer a person with a cell phone to call 911 as the person is kicking you door in so be it. How many shots can a person get off between the time the patrol person calls 911 and the time the cops get there? The truth; the shooter will be gone, you and your family willl be dead and they may or may not ever find the culprit. I prefer ARMED security, how about you?
 
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