Are ghosts real?

[Ikari]

It didn't exist for disease for much of human history.

Lack of knowledge isn't conclusive.

The realm of incomplete knowledge? At one time everything existed in that realm. There is something that suggests it exists, eye witness accounts. Whether you find them valid or not, how ever you decide to personally debunk them they are still there.

For the I don't know, tenth time I have said this, I understand the evidence is inconclusive and science doesn't demand their existence. Why do you keep telling me this? I never once suggested anything to the contrary, in fact I agree. I have said that several times. What is with this broken record routine?


I can't say that definitively, there is something to suggest that they exist, there just isn't proof.

I don't stand where to stand, so you and that mouse in your pocket can stand where ever you wish.

I am standing where I wish. You're the one who jumped in all "Nuh uh!" like. So pretty much brought this upon yourself.

 

[Lethargic Aptitude]

Okay perhaps I jumped to a conclusion, what would be your explanation? I am all ears.

Person makes the claim that they see a ghost. Typically and logically one should first analyse if there is an easy explanation for something other than a ghost. You also have to take in account who is making the claim. Do they have a record of making other wild claims? If they are not a nutcase (you cannot deny that nutcases do exist) then there is more to the claim. But there still isnt any reason to believe that they actually saw a ghost. The rational that I am using is that ghosts are from folk lore and there isnt any logical explanation for a ghost. The only explanations are rife with traditional folklore. IE souls. Viewing a ghost translated to viewing a bodiless soul. Now we can be rational about the subject of ghosts now that we can define what they are claimed to be. Science has shown the the human brain does everything that used to be claimed to be a soul. A soul is the ignorant explanation of the functions of the human brain. Therefor a ghost is the same ignorant explanation. SO how exactly can people see the functions of the human brain walking around or whatever?

 

[CLAX1911]

First you tell me that I havent debunked unnamed eye witness accounts. What eye witness accounts would those be? You have not provided one eye witness account at all, you have just been claiming the there are eye witness accounts.

Why do I need to provid you with accounts?

Then you try and claim that the paranormal crap is possible because you say it is. While never even attempting show any evidence that it is a possibility.
Then in the same post you deny the claim that you just made.

It's possible in my mind. I haverepeatedly said the evidence is inconclusive. Would inconclusive evidence convince you? Where did I deny any claim that I made?

Then you assert that you will never provide any evidence for your above claims.

There wouldn't be any point. And what claim did I make?

If you were a skeptic then you would not need me to debunk your anonymous eye witness accounts.

Well I am a skeptic so, your evaluation of my skepticism is of no real purpose.

BTW if I was mean I would just pick the easiest eye witness accounts to debunk for you since you left that up to me.

I am not trying to prove anything, why would I post third hand accounts?

I never once said that. ANd I told that to you before and even though you apologized for that mistake you havent stopped making that accusation.

Okay, so you think they are rational human beings?

Is it because that is your only argument?

I laid out all my cards on the op. I am not really making an argument. Read the op instead of hounding me about proof I already stated doesn't exist.

I deny the possibility of the paranormal so therefor I am a bigot?

If I called you a bigot it's because you express that your opinion is correct and are intolerant of the opinion of others. But I don't believe I called you a bigot.

BTW claiming that someone is close minded is asserted that they should be open minded.

No it isn't and I didn't say you are closed minded I said you are narrow minded. That is your right and it isn't my right to suggest that you should be open minded. But if you want to play victim, be my guest.

But you now have claimed that I shouldnt be either and I agree with that actually. We should be logical minded not open minded nor narrow minded. Throw out the logic and being open and narrow minded leads to bigotry.

So being open to the possibility that there are paranormal things equals lack of logic? That's a stretch. You are going to have to find tune that statement for me to take it seriously.

Logically there isnt even a hypothesis for the paranormal.

Using your logic, perhaps not. But if everybody shared your logic we wouldn't be having this discussion.

All accounts of ghost are from people making unfounded claims.

Some are from people just starting what they experienced. There may not be a claim at all.

A person can claim anything that they want but there isnt a reason to believe them if they provide no evidence. Zero eye witness accounts of ghosts have evidence.

They carry circumstantial evidence.

I am sorry I don't share your opinion that this is all make believe. Your argument only further solidifies my opinion.

 

[Cephus]

What is known about reality is that we know nothing about reality. Go stay a few nights at my ex-gf's house and you'll never go back. Any man to step foot there has NEVER gone back.

I'm sorry your ex-girlfriend is so ugly.

 

[CLAX1911]

Person makes the claim that they see a ghost.

Not all witness accounts make such claims, sometimes they simply explain what they experienced. In some cases they say they didn't believe their eyes.

Typically and logically one should first analyse if there is a n easy explanation for something other than a ghost. You also have to take in account who is making the claim. Do they have a record of making other wild claims? If they are not a nutcase (you cannot deny that nutcases do exist) then there is more to the claim.

Yes there are nutcases and they are easily identified.

But there still isnt any reason to believe that they actually saw a ghost.

there is no reason to completely dismiss it either.

The rational that I am using is that ghosts are from folk lore and there isnt any logical explanation for a ghost.

There isn't a logical explanation for many things.

The only explanations are rife with transitional folk lore. IE souls. Viewing a ghost translated to viewing a bodiless soul.

Here is where the discussion gets interesting. I don't assume that ghosts are souls. They are unknown. Could it be psychological, yes absolutely, but does that mean the person that saw it didn't see it?

Now we can be rational about the subject of ghosts now that we can define what they are claimed to be. Science has shown the the human brain does everything that used to be claimed to be a soul.

I don't buy that.

A soul is the ignorant explanation of the functions of the human brain.

If it was an explanation of the function of the brain I would agree. But it has never been explained that way.

Therefor a ghost is the same ignorant explanation.

you are only building on your rather shaky assumptions.

SO how exactly can people see the functions of the human brain walking around or whatever?

They can't so they aren't. That doesn't however negate the existence of ghosts it just negates your explanation of what a soul is.

You are simply saying because nobody can see functions of the brain walking around that there is no such thing as ghosts, that is a huge assumption on your part. You assume that ghosts have to be disembodied viable brain functions. When there are infinite possibilities that you aren't even taking into account.

Simply saying what you think a soul is isn't really relevant.

what if they don't make a claim they saw a ghost?

 

[CLAX1911]

I am standing where I wish. You're the one who jumped in all "Nuh uh!" like. So pretty much brought this upon yourself.

You haven't accomplished anything, so I brought your nothingness on myself, oh burn.

 

[Ikari]

You haven't accomplished anything, so I brought your nothingness on myself, oh burn.

I stated my stance on the subject, which is pretty much the point of a debate board. Everything that precipitated after that was because you felt like chiming in because you thought it was wrong. But that was your fault, and if it were nothingness then great job evoking it and participating in it. Good to see that you have nothing better to do with your time than engage in "nothingness".

 

[_Sal]

What is known about reality is that we know nothing about reality. Go stay a few nights at my ex-gf's house and you'll never go back. Any man to step foot there has NEVER gone back.

what happens there? :shock:

is that why she is your ex :mrgreen:

 

[CLAX1911]

I stated my stance on the subject, which is pretty much the point of a debate board. Everything that precipitated after that was because you felt like chiming in because you thought it was wrong. But that was your fault, and if it were nothingness then great job evoking it and participating in it. Good to see that you have nothing better to do with your time than engage in "nothingness".

I just felt like discussing things, I didn't know you were full of ****.

Note to self don't bother talking to ikari. There is nothing there.

Lesson learned.

 

[Ikari]

I just felt like discussing things, I didn't know you were full of ****.

Note to self don't bother talking to ikari. There is nothing there.

Lesson learned.

Has it? Cause you're still talking. Maybe learning lessons just ain't your thing.

 

[SayMyName]

No. Ghosts are not real. Phenomena that do occur are simply those that we can not yet explain with science.

 

[CLAX1911]

what happens there? :shock:

is that why she is your ex :mrgreen:

My brother dated a succubus. Never know.

 

[CLAX1911]

No. Ghosts are not real. Phenomena that do occur are simply those that we can not yet explain with science.

Any speciation on what it is?

 

[Ikari]

No. Ghosts are not real. Phenomena that do occur are simply those that we can not yet explain with science.

Yeah, any speciation? Hahaha, what did a ghost evolve from?

 

[CLAX1911]

Has it? Cause you're still talking. Maybe learning lessons just ain't your thing.

 

[Ikari]

Still going huh? Maybe you should stop and continue that discussion on the evolution of ghosts you tried to start.

 

[CLAX1911]

Still going huh? Maybe you should stop and continue that discussion on the evolution of ghosts you tried to start.

 

[SayMyName]

Any speciation on what it is?

I would love to, but, that would open up a whole new can of worms. But, let me elaborate on my first answer. I don't believe what people see as ghosts are the "spirits" of dead people that once lived. I do agree that something does at times take place. What it actually is, however, is another story. I would recommend the book by the astronomer and physicist Carl Sagan, "The Demon Haunted World."

 

[Ikari]

I wonder where that speciated from. HAHAHAHAHAHA

 

[Ikari]

I would love to, but, that would open up a whole new can of worms. But, let me elaborate on my first answer. I don't believe what people see as ghosts are the "spirits" of dead people that once lived. I do agree that something does at times take place. What it actually is, however, is another story. I would recommend the book by the astronomer and physicist Carl Sagan, "The Demon Haunted World."

That's a very good book, I love Sagan.

 

[SayMyName]

That's a very good book, I love Sagan.

I do, too. I miss him.

 

[CLAX1911]

I do, too. I miss him.

I have only watched reruns, I didn't get the opportunity to watch his show while it was airing. But I did watch the one with Neal deGrasse I enjoyed it as well.

 

[CLAX1911]

I would love to, but, that would open up a whole new can of worms. But, let me elaborate on my first answer. I don't believe what people see as ghosts are the "spirits" of dead people that once lived. I do agree that something does at times take place. What it actually is, however, is another story. I would recommend the book by the astronomer and physicist Carl Sagan, "The Demon Haunted World."

I agree, if they do exist I wouldn't think they were dead people. I call them ghosts for lack of a better word.

 

[Ikari]

I do, too. I miss him.

He was an excellent author for sure, and I like his writings on skepticism. Some seem to confuse skepticism with close mindedness, however, so it’s something to be aware of.

But ultimately, I do agree. I don’t discount people’s experiences, but the brain is a complex and sometimes deceitful organ. What we perceive may not be what really is. People may try to correlate or apply significance to an event that doesn’t possess it and they may do so quite unwittingly. It’s not intentional deceit in all cases. But between the supernatural and the natural, it is the natural that tends to win out (in fact, I haven’t really witnessed the supernatural winning out at all). Ghost don’t exist, but people have experienced what they will call ghosts.

 

[Dittohead not!]

Does that work?

Of course. Ghosts are real push overs. Do you know of anyone having been killed by a ghost?