Are corporate anti-sexual harassment courses too extreme?

[lwf]

according to the latest information 60% of men refuse to mentor women underlings.
they refuse to be alone in the same room or go to dinner or ask them to business dinners.

60% of male managers uncomfortable with work activities involving women

but a new survey finds that 60% of male managers say they’re uncomfortable participating in regular work activities with women, including mentoring, working one-on-one or socializing.

Senior-level men also say they are 12 times more likely to be hesitant about one-on-one meetings with a junior woman than they are a junior man, nine times more likely to be hesitant to travel with a junior woman for work than a junior man, and six times more likely to be hesitant to have a work dinner with a junior woman than a junior man.

and guess what they have no one to blame but the feminist movement.

I think the feminist movement and the #MeToo movement have a lot more work to do if that many men don't know how to behave in the workplace around female coworkers. As a man, I find that study embarrassing to my gender.

 

[lwf]

I had a response but then realized that your post is stupid on a few levels so I shouldn't bother trying to reason with you...

Thanks for letting me know

 

[Bodi]

If a heated disagreement comes down the pike, the approach you suggest goes right out the window.

His posts are naive and condescending... the traits of a person that lives a sheltered safe life and does not know about the **** that people do for the variety of reasons that they do them... spite, some twisted revenge, fantasy, behavior or personality disorders, etc.

Thanks for letting me know

All good... hopefully you learn something. See my post above if you need more help.

 

[lwf]

If a heated disagreement comes down the pike, the approach you suggest goes right out the window.

If you're getting into heated disagreements at work then you are probably not behaving professionally in the first place.

 

[lwf]

His posts are naive and condescending... the traits of a person that lives a sheltered safe life and does not know about the **** that people do for the variety of reasons that they do them... spite, some twisted revenge, fantasy, behavior or personality disorders, etc.

You are hearing about horror stories and assuming that all women are capable of this. This is no different than people hearing about school shootings and assuming that every gun in America has the potential to murder school children. While I understand the knee-jerk reactions to salacious news stories about these things, the bottom line is that women are not evil man-haters who are out to get revenge on you personally for the way their gender has been treated, nor are they out to get you fired so they can take your job. They are no different than you or me. How many false sexual harassment allegations have you leveled at your coworkers?

 

[SDET]

Of course one could take lessons from the bound H1B visa holders and learn how to take abuse with a smile. That is NOT a criticism of the H1Bs, but rather their circumstances.

If you're getting into heated disagreements at work then you are probably not behaving professionally in the first place.

 

[ludin]

I think the feminist movement and the #MeToo movement have a lot more work to do if that many men don't know how to behave in the workplace around female coworkers. As a man, I find that study embarrassing to my gender.

nope they are the reason these men have pulled back.
because they are not going to risk their career or their livelihood or their families.

I don't find it embarrassing. I find it 100% legit. no mentoring of a woman is worth losing you job over.

 

[SDET]

If you want to learn about "strong corporate women", step back and observe how the treat the defenseless H1B employees. You'll see why the name "harpy" fits.

I had a response but then realized that your post is stupid on a few levels so I shouldn't bother trying to reason with you...

 

[Bodi]

You are hearing about horror stories and assuming that all women are capable of this.

For ****s sake... you are one of these... :roll:

This sentence reads like a child or like a lie hoping to do something... no, not all women and in fact, the vast VAST minority of women might engage is stupid **** like that... that has nothing to do with me or a guy acting professionally or any of your other equally inane statements.

This is no different than people hearing about school shootings and assuming that every gun in America has the potential to murder school children. While I understand the knee-jerk reactions to salacious news stories about these things, the bottom line is that women are not evil man-haters who are out to get revenge on you personally for the way their gender has been treated, nor are they out to get you fired so they can take your job. They are no different than you or me. How many false sexual harassment allegations have you leveled at your coworkers?

I put in bold some of your more idiotic generalizations.

The FBI says about 8% of rape allegations are false. A US Study says it might be as high as 10%.

The truth about false assault accusations by women - BBC News

82% of men who are worried about women making false allegations of harassment or assault at work

Of All The Gender Issues At Work, Men Are Most Concerned About False Harassment Claims From Women

Just a few stats for you to mull over.

 

[lwf]

For ****s sake... you are one of these... :roll:

This sentence reads like a child or like a lie hoping to do something... no, not all women and in fact, the vast VAST minority of women might engage is stupid **** like that... that has nothing to do with me or a guy acting professionally or any of your other equally inane statements.



I put in bold some of your more idiotic generalizations.

The FBI says about 8% of rape allegations are false. A US Study says it might be as high as 10%.

The truth about false assault accusations by women - BBC News

82% of men who are worried about women making false allegations of harassment or assault at work

Of All The Gender Issues At Work, Men Are Most Concerned About False Harassment Claims From Women

Just a few stats for you to mull over.

If only 2-8% of rape allegations are false, and 82% of men are afraid of being falsely accused, then doesn't that support my position? Aren't these men terrified of something that is so unlikely they could go their whole career several times over without ever even seeing one occur?

 

[SDET]

The funny thing is, I fairly recently mentored a woman, an ASIAN woman. She asked for my help in pushing back against an overbearing female boss, who oddly enough was instrumental in her being underpaid. With my advice she got a job offer. It happened to be from a company with a poor reputation, but it was an offer nonetheless. She successfully used it as leverage to get a 22% pay raise. However, having started an interview pipeline, six months later she got an offer with a good company with a pay rate that was 10% more than her pay AFTER the 22% pay raise. I really enjoy it when people are interested in action instead of just "venting" (AKA bitching).

nope they are the reason these men have pulled back.
because they are not going to risk their career or their livelihood or their families.

I don't find it embarrassing. I find it 100% legit. no mentoring of a woman is worth losing you job over.

 

[SDET]

Would you get on a plane that had an 8% chance of crashing?

If only 2-8% of rape allegations are false, and 82% of men are afraid of being falsely accused, then doesn't that support my position? Aren't these men terrified of something that is so unlikely they could go their whole career several times over without ever even seeing one occur?

 

[Bodi]

If only 2-8% of rape allegations are false, and 82% of men are afraid of being falsely accused, then doesn't that support my position? Aren't these men terrified of something that is so unlikely they could go their whole career several times over without ever even seeing one occur?

No. Because almost 70% of women report being sexual harassed in public spaces and 40% at work... Men report a lot less but that is because men generally do not report instances where they are victims.

 

[Bodi]

Would you get on a plane that had an 8% chance of crashing?

He is not taking into account of the number of rape accusations or sexual harassment accusations either... if as much as 10% might be false allegations and almost 30,000 reports of sexual workplace harassment are reported each year then every year 3,000 men (EEOC) are facing loosing their job, losing family, losing custody, limiting job opportunities in the future... that does not take into account incidents of rape, physical assault, domestic abuse where the accuser is also misrepresenting facts. RAIIN says there are 250,000 rapes and sexual assaults too... that means another 25,000 false accusations. A YEAR.

 

[lwf]

He is not taking into account of the number of rape accusations or sexual harassment accusations either... if as much as 10% might be false allegations and almost 30,000 reports of sexual workplace harassment are reported each year then every year 3,000 men (EEOC) are facing loosing their job, losing family, losing custody, limiting job opportunities in the future... that does not take into account incidents of rape, physical assault, domestic abuse where the accuser is also misrepresenting facts. RAIIN says there are 250,000 rapes and sexual assaults too... that means another 25,000 false accusations. A YEAR.

Using your numbers, which are probably inflated, If every year 3,000 men are falsely accused of sexual harassment in the workplace, and there are roughly 105 million men employed in the U.S., then you have a 0.003% chance of being falsely accused of sexual harassment in the workplace. You are more likely to be struck by lightning four separate times in your lifetime than to be falsely accused of sexual harassment in the workplace.

 

[gdgyva]

If you leave the door open when you meet one on one with female employees but not male employees, how do you prevent female employees from feeling like they are being publicly humiliated just because they are female? Treat your workers equally. If your boss requires you to have a female member of management present when you speak to female employees, I suggest that says more about your own past behavior than it does about the danger of having women in the workplace.

i required that any supervisor "counseling" any employee have another supervisor in the room with them

that included reviews, interviews, or any number of company meetings we had for behavior and performance....

why open yourself up to any possible issues when its easy to avoid

and fyi....i was a cfo in the car business with 1600 employees.....

 

[lwf]

i required that any supervisor "counseling" any employee have another supervisor in the room with them

that included reviews, interviews, or any number of company meetings we had for behavior and performance....

why open yourself up to any possible issues when its easy to avoid

and fyi....i was a cfo in the car business with 1600 employees.....

That's a good policy, so long as women aren't singled out. Many places have an HR rep present.

 

[Brochacholomigo]

What is overlooked is that the way these are presented become a drag on morale. If you take this training seriously, it leads one to ask about the risk level of interacting with women at all. It creates a walking-on-eggshells culture where every bit of non-task communication is a big risk.

That's an issue of over-correction, not of taking the wrong direction, and if EvilRoddy's post is any indicator, it's an America-specific problem; addressing the issue of sexual harassment in the workplace needed to be done, and it ended up somewhat overdone.

 

[Lursa]

I have been through maybe a dozen or so. I think they condition men not to interact with women. Even years ago, way before the formal corporate training, men often said to each other "don't **** where you eat". That means DO NOT fraternize with females at the company in any manner. It's been a given my whole professional life. With DECADES of such indoctrination, how would any man do anything that even comes close to sexual harassment? I don't get it. :shrug: So much as a greeting is a risk. Why chance it?

It's sad to hear that you dont know of any ways to 'fraternize' with women that arent considered harassment.

There are plenty and most men manage it every day in the workplace, out in public, etc.

 

[Lursa]

So your solution is to treat female peers as if you're under their authority. Should I pay them protection money as well? Just asking.

Are you subordinate to all your male clients?

Exactly what distinctions do you see here?

 

[Lursa]

I agree, as a supervisor if I had a one on one meeting with a female, my office door was open. Any allegation can be made if they didn’t get the raise they were looking for or if I had to let someone go.

It probably makes the females more comfortable as well.

 

[Bodi]

Using your numbers, which are probably inflated, If every year 3,000 men are falsely accused of sexual harassment in the workplace, and there are roughly 105 million men employed in the U.S., then you have a 0.003% chance of being falsely accused of sexual harassment in the workplace. You are more likely to be struck by lightning four separate times in your lifetime than to be falsely accused of sexual harassment in the workplace.

I am not sure why you support women falsely accusing men of rape... If I have inflated numbers then you are a woman poising as a man here.

 

[lwf]

I am not sure why you support women falsely accusing men of rape... If I have inflated numbers then you are a woman poising as a man here.

I support women falsely accusing men of rape four times less than I support people being struck by lightning. And I also worry about it four times less.

 

[Bodi]

I support women falsely accusing men of rape four times less than I support people being struck by lightning. And I also worry about it four times less.

You are very naive about this issue...

 

[bomberfox]

I have been through maybe a dozen or so. I think they condition men not to interact with women. Even years ago, way before the formal corporate training, men often said to each other "don't **** where you eat". That means DO NOT fraternize with females at the company in any manner. It's been a given my whole professional life. With DECADES of such indoctrination, how would any man do anything that even comes close to sexual harassment? I don't get it. :shrug: So much as a greeting is a risk. Why chance it?

What?....