Ah, yes, because Europe never condemned Hamas or Oct 7th... c'mon man!!
Except no israeli land has been taken. The only peace that will happen is palestinian statehood and a stop to the theft of land from west bank palestinians.And then (in some craven cases) rewarded them for their efforts.
If we told Putin that invading Ukraine was ver, ver, bad, but, unless he agreed to a ceasefire in the next week, we would respond by recognizing Russia's right to the Donbass.....
....how do you think he would respond?
Israel has offered the Palestinians their own state many times. The Palestinians only had to agree to peacefully accept Israel as a Jewish state.That won't happen either. Israel won't allow it.
And then (in some craven cases) rewarded them for their efforts.
If we told Putin that invading Ukraine was ver, ver, bad, but, unless he agreed to a ceasefire in the next week, we would respond by recognizing Russia's right to the Donbass.....
....how do you think he would respond?
They are in the middle of killing/displacing a couple million with complete impunity. They won't stop now.Israel has offered the Palestinians their own state many times. The Palestinians only had to agree to peacefully accept Israel as a Jewish state.
Israel is allowed to defend themselves from the Palestinians' illegal war of aggression.They are in the middle of killing/displacing a couple million with complete impunity. They won't stop now.
While you're acknowledging that acknowledge the years of torture and indiscriminate killing also perpetrated by Israel.Israel is allowed to defend themselves from the Palestinians' illegal war of aggression.
What torture and indiscriminate killing are you referring to?While you're acknowledging that acknowledge the years of torture and indiscriminate killing also perpetrated by Israel.
The decades of it that went on before Oct 7th. .What torture and indiscriminate killing are you referring to?
There is nothing too complex about simply ascribing value and worth to each human. I suppose you thought there was?
I see no evidence of any such thing having happened.The decades of it that went on before Oct 7th.
Except no israeli land has been taken.
I understand incentives. Hamas is not in the proposal no matter how much they think they are. Theres plenty of things that could have been done to prevent it but nuttyahoo wasnt having it so here we are. C’est la vie. This situation has become desperate so Palestinians need an assurance that a solution is possible. I understand why he is doing it.No, Israel was able to fight HAMAS back into Gaza - however the point here is that both Putin and HAMAS are the aggressor, and are the actors refusing to allow the wars they started to end.
And so, if you give someone who started a war one of the major goals of that war, does that tell them that the war was a failure, or a success ?
Because HAMAS sees it as success.
Respectfully, it is very difficult to accept that ya'll cannot grasp this very simple point about incentives, and difficult instead to fail to conclude that you do not wish to admit this basic reality because it tells you that there are unintended and deeply negative consequences for something that you like.
But the more you reward HAMAS for its initial aggression and forced sustainment of this conflict, the more of it you will get.
So, if you like this war, then support France and the UK. Because that's how you get more of it.
Do you think Putin isn't getting anything out of a potential ceasefire?
Hamas is all but done. And any Palestinian state will not have a Hamas as its government.
You just don't want a Palestinian state at all.
Um no ive seen the actual goings on in gaza. https://www.theguardian.com/world/2025/jul/29/letter-sanctions-israel-gaza-starvation So have they.
What was the Italian kid story? If there is a better term than genocide ill be fine with using it.
Its absolutely insane.What was the term that was used when we secretly bombed Laos for nearly a decade and killed roughly one in every ten people living in that country? Perhaps we should use that term.
Until then, indiscriminate bombings leaving nowhere in Gaza safe, mass-starvation, reducing aid sites from 400 down to 4, refusing to let foreign journalists in to see what is going on in Gaza even at the aid sites to show how humane and restrained the Israelis are (which they are not), showing at the very least nothing short of a depraved indifference to human life to outright sadism? All while the Israeli government says that it backs a campaign of expulsion of Palestinians out of Gaza and dispossession of Palestinians in the West Bank. I will call it genocide.
Our children and grandchildren can judge us, will judge us and should judge us for how we speak of this abomination today. And one day, everyone will say that they were against what Israel is doing in Gaza. Some of us will not have to lie about it.
Nobody was ever punished for the bombing campaign in Laos either. Truly, it’s a mystery why the Communist Party there is still firmly in power fifty years laterWhat was the term that was used when we secretly bombed Laos for nearly a decade and killed roughly one in every ten people living in that country? Perhaps we should use that term.
Until then, indiscriminate bombings leaving nowhere in Gaza safe, mass-starvation, reducing aid sites from 400 down to 4, refusing to let foreign journalists in to see what is going on in Gaza even at the aid sites to show how humane and restrained the Israelis are (which they are not), showing at the very least nothing short of a depraved indifference to human life to outright sadism? All while the Israeli government says that it backs a campaign of expulsion of Palestinians out of Gaza and dispossession of Palestinians in the West Bank. I will call it genocide.
Our children and grandchildren can judge us, will judge us and should judge us for how we speak of this abomination today. And one day, everyone will say that they were against what Israel is doing in Gaza. Some of us will not have to lie about it.
I understand incentives.
Hamas is not in the proposal no matter how much they think they are.
Theres plenty of things that could have been done to prevent it but nuttyahoo wasnt having it so here we are. C’est la vie. This situation has become desperate so Palestinians need an assurance that a solution is possible.
I understand why he is doing it.
I dont think anyone is getting the best option and its a shit show. Canada along with this recognition will need to become directly involved in negotiating the release of the hostages.
We’ll see how this goes. If you wanna blame anyone for this blame nuttyahu and his bloodthirsty cabinet. The days of blood thirsty nationalists running the world is waning. I predicted a third party is going to have to step in. Its regrettable that this is coming before the release of the hostages but the situation on the ground has forced staunch supporters to reconsider.Okedoke. How do you think HAMAS is going to respond to the incentive structure that launching a brutal war gets them victory, just like they always believed it would?
Oh. And so that means that the impacts aren't real?
If Israel were to write on the side of their bombs "Not For Children", would that mean no kids ever get killed when they drop?
"I mean, we said very clearly that it was Not For Children! Obviously we now no longer have to consider the completely predictable results of our actions!"
Consequences Matter.
No. Palestinians need to learn that holding on to maximalist genocidal goals of wiping out every Jew in Israel is something that keeps them from having a state. The UK and France are telling them the opposite, and, as a result, actual statehood will likely be further delayed, and Gazan suffering will be increased.
I do too. Foreign policy is generally inherently domestic.
:lol: Imean, how? Or .... what?
"You better think aboot releasing those hostages, or else we are going to support you even harder!" ?
What was the term that was used when we secretly bombed Laos for nearly a decade and killed roughly one in every ten people living in that country? Perhaps we should use that term.
Until then, indiscriminate bombings leaving nowhere in Gaza safe, mass-starvation, reducing aid sites from 400 down to 4, refusing to let foreign journalists in to see what is going on in Gaza even at the aid sites to show how humane and restrained the Israelis are (which they are not),
Our children and grandchildren can judge us, will judge us and should judge us for how we speak of this abomination today. And one day, everyone will say that they were against what Israel is doing in Gaza.
Some of us will not have to lie about it.
We’ll see how this goes. If you wanna blame anyone for this blame nuttyahu and his bloodthirsty cabinet.
The days of blood thirsty nationalists running the world is waning.
I predicted a third party is going to have to step in.
Its regrettable that this is coming before the release of the hostages but the situation on the ground has forced staunch supporters to reconsider.
You are right that this rewards Hamas even if they are not recognized by anyone to be the governing body, but this isnt even for Hamas.
Hum i mention bloodthirsty nationalists because nuttyahu has directly promoted and made bedfellows with the very fascists that are gaining popularity in europe and you mention everyone else? Curious. As i recall Canada is recognizing the PA, not hamas.Nope. Netanyahu didn't launch Oct 7th, start this war, or insist that it keep going. HAMAS could end it at any time, and refuses, because (thanks to the Western Left), they think they are winning.
Oh nice. .....Have you informed the Chinese, the Russians, or the Arabs of this?
Who do you think wants to step in and fight HAMAS and try to run Gaza that Israel would accept?
Well, okedoke then: who do you think is going to go to war with Israel AND HAMAS. ?
It doesn't matter if we say it isn't, if that is in fact the effect that it has on the ground - and that is the effect that it has on the ground.
Israel is entirely responsible for Israel’s choices to use civilians as human shields, brutally abuse prisoners, and try to steal land from their neighbors. Wailing “Hamas” can’t change that.Okedoke. How do you think HAMAS is going to respond to the incentive structure that launching a brutal war gets them victory, just like they always believed it would?
Oh. And so that means that the impacts aren't real?
If Israel were to write on the side of their bombs "Not For Children", would that mean no kids ever get killed when they drop?
"I mean, we said very clearly that it was Not For Children! Obviously we now no longer have to consider the completely predictable results of our actions!"
Consequences Matter.
No. Palestinians need to learn that holding on to maximalist genocidal goals of wiping out every Jew in Israel is something that keeps them from having a state. The UK and France are telling them the opposite, and, as a result, actual statehood will likely be further delayed, and Gazan suffering will be increased.
I do too. Foreign policy is generally inherently domestic.
:lol: Imean, how? Or .... what?
"You better think aboot releasing those hostages, or else we are going to support you even harder!" ?
Or when we invaded Okinawa, and 1/4 of the population died (helped along the way with that by the Japanese who, like HAMAS, made sure many of them died).
We called it "War".
Respectfully, if you think that, it is because you are not familiar with Israeli targeting procedures, or what unrestrained violence would actually look like.
That's really good, because it means you have grown up in very protected and safe world where you have never had to see actual modern nation-state violence at scale and at speed. Our ancestors dreamed of such a thing.
But Israel has indeed been restrained - far more than we would be in similar circumstances.
I do worry about them deciding to abandon that, convinced that no amount of restraint will ever satisfy the people who are determined to attack them no matter what they do. More and more I think that day is going to come, perhaps the next time HAMAS pulls something like this.
...Eh There will be a New Big Outrage That Everyone Will Be Very Upset About, and people will forget about this except for those directly involved, just like people are less and less intense about Ukraine, and the "Uighur moment" is over, no one cares about the suppression of Hong Kong, and no one is still litigating whether or not we should have toppled Qhadaffi, or should intervene in Sudan.
The war in Syria killed ten times this many people, and people only cared if ISIS escaped and started attacking us here in the West. There are actual genocides happening in Africa, and folks barely care, if they even know.
As soon as the media needs something else to keep up ratings and fit The Narrative, they will shift to that, and everyone will care less and less about Gaza. If I had to put down a dollar, I'd bet on the midterm elections.
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