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Apes descended from Humans – NOT the other way around.

I dunno dude.

1500 posts and not an inch gained.

The sad thing is he's admitted evolution takes place. As he's admitted species change over time to adapt to their environment... Which is precisely what evolution is. It's just over time all those micro changes inevitably form a completely new species, especially if say the same species of turtle were put on two separate kinds of islands with different vegetation, terrain and weather factors.

We see evidence of this by the fact that certain species of birds still have small claws at the end of their wings...

If you want an example of why he so adamantly opposes evolution, go to conservapedia.com and look up their page on evolution...

To some conservatives such as Ptif its not so much that evolution is right or wrong, they can't prove it wrong, its more what it represents, and what it represents to them is an attack on Christianity because it challenges the idea that god made everything, dropped it on the earth and Adam and Eve and The garden of eden truly existed.

Maybe im wrong i dunno, but again after 150 pages, not an inch, an inch gained, being hopeful is... Brave. :mrgreen:
Earlier in my life, I was more inclined to believe that if an omnipotent being did exist, perhaps what we perceive as evolution was its will at work - after all, one would think that and omnipotent being wouldn't really have much issue with time, and thus existing over what appears to us as millions of years while it manipulated various aspects of evolution would be no issue - which is what I theorized might explain the gaps in the evolutionary evidence that ptif219 seems so fond of pointing out.

I'm less sure how valid this hypothesis might be now, but it's still a possibility.

And probably has a name all its own, because I think other persons have a similar view – with, of course, personal variations.
 
Earlier in my life, I was more inclined to believe that if an omnipotent being did exist, perhaps what we perceive as evolution was its will at work - after all, one would think that and omnipotent being wouldn't really have much issue with time, and thus existing over what appears to us as millions of years while it manipulated various aspects of evolution would be no issue - which is what I theorized might explain the gaps in the evolutionary evidence that ptif219 seems so fond of pointing out.

I'm less sure how valid this hypothesis might be now, but it's still a possibility.

And probably has a name all its own, because I think other persons have a similar view – with, of course, personal variations.

All very true, and possible too.

Evolution doesn't disprove a higher power at all.

But the only problem with your theory about Ptifs particular opposition, is it's not even that sophisticated.

He hasn't spent any time at all having a conversation with us... It's just been simply "show me proof, scientists lie, that's not proof, I showed proof scientists lie, prove my link wrong, evolution doesn't explain the origin of life, repeat, repeat, repeat."

Nothing else. No intelligent discourse, nothing.

He opposes it for the sake of opposing it because it disagrees with his world view, there is no other explanation for his behavior. He has no desire to learn about evolution, read anything that might indicate he's wrong or so much as conjure up a doubt in his mind he's been ignorant for 1500 posts.
 
So in other words he's an evil anti-christian communist trying to disprove creationism as the one true explanation for life on earth.

I can read between the lines mark.

No, no he's not evil. He was just taken in by all those bones that the devil buried to fool us, that's all.
 
All very true, and possible too.

Evolution doesn't disprove a higher power at all.

But the only problem with your theory about Ptifs particular opposition, is it's not even that sophisticated.

He hasn't spent any time at all having a conversation with us... It's just been simply "show me proof, scientists lie, that's not proof, I showed proof scientists lie, prove my link wrong, evolution doesn't explain the origin of life, repeat, repeat, repeat."

Nothing else. No intelligent discourse, nothing.

He opposes it for the sake of opposing it because it disagrees with his world view, there is no other explanation for his behavior. He has no desire to learn about evolution, read anything that might indicate he's wrong or so much as conjure up a doubt in his mind he's been ignorant for 1500 posts.
This is the most likely possibility, but I'm continuing partially because at some point I want to see an "Apes descended from Humans - NOT the other way around. 2nd Installment." thread.

I want the amusement to continue.

Or perhaps I’m a masochist.

:mrgreen:
 
This is the most likely possibility, but I'm continuing partially because at some point I want to see an "Apes descended from Humans - NOT the other way around. 2nd Installment." thread.

I want the amusement to continue.

Or perhaps I’m a masochist.

:mrgreen:

Oh man I hope he doesn't stop.

This is honestly one of the funniest threads in DP history, its one of the first threads I check in the morning, just to see how many one liners Ptif came up with that day.
 
Oh man I hope he doesn't stop.

This is honestly one of the funniest threads in DP history, its one of the first threads I check in the morning, just to see how many one liners Ptif came up with that day.
We only need 490 or so more posts to hit the post wall, then we can create a second thread and be good for awhile longer.
 
Abandon all hope all ye who enter this thread for reason and evidence shall not prevail against the stubborn troll who resides here.



you have been warned.
 
I think he's trying to determine how much about the science you currently understand so that he knows where to start explaining his position from - be it basic biological and anthropological science or more advanced.

Such information is key to communicating successfully

For example, you need to understand the relationship between the numbers and letters on road signs and the differences between various states systems to safely and legally navigate when transporting something.

By the same token, Anarcho-fascist needs to understand the relationship between your current understanding of science and what he may need to explain and/or convince you of so that he can then describe his position on this issue to you.

BS just show the progression
 
I dunno dude.

1500 posts and not an inch gained.

The sad thing is he's admitted evolution takes place. As he's admitted species change over time to adapt to their environment... Which is precisely what evolution is. It's just over time all those micro changes inevitably form a completely new species, especially if say the same species of turtle were put on two separate kinds of islands with different vegetation, terrain and weather factors.

We see evidence of this by the fact that certain species of birds still have small claws at the end of their wings...

If you want an example of why he so adamantly opposes evolution, go to conservapedia.com and look up their page on evolution...

To some conservatives such as Ptif its not so much that evolution is right or wrong, they can't prove it wrong, its more what it represents, and what it represents to them is an attack on Christianity because it challenges the idea that god made everything, dropped it on the earth and Adam and Eve and The garden of eden truly existed.

Maybe im wrong i dunno, but again after 150 pages, not an inch, an inch gained, being hopeful is... Brave. :mrgreen:

No it is the fact they start in the middle. They show no proof of haw life on earth started and how it progressed. The have huge time gaps and missing links and yet teach it in school as fact.
 
BS just show the progression
But if he shows you the progression in a format that you don't fully understand, it is highly likely that you will dismiss it as invalid evidence simply because you...don't fully understand it.

Another key to successful communication is determining the correct format required for a given communication attempt.

Or did I say that already?

Meh.
 
But if he shows you the progression in a format that you don't fully understand, it is highly likely that you will dismiss it as invalid evidence simply because you...don't fully understand it.

Another key to successful communication is determining the correct format required for a given communication attempt.

Or did I say that already?

Meh.

That is a cop out. The truth is you probably can't show it without huge time gaps and missing links. I would like to see proof of the one species that some here claim both man and ape came from.
 
That is a cop out. The truth is you probably can't show it without huge time gaps and missing links. I would like to see proof of the one species that some here claim both man and ape came from.
My limited knowledge of this area indicates that the evidence is majority genetic/DNA based - as in, examination and comparison of human DNA with the DNA of other primates, then backtracking the similar code to predict the common ancestor.

For example, the link you presented in the OP was apparently about a study (or so we eventually were informed, 2 links later) in which the scientists involved presented a theory - with evidence to back it up - that basically said (as I understood it) "humans are not evolved from chimps, but rather chips evolved from the same ancestor that humans evolved from - in some ways, you could say chimps evolved from humans (as in an ancestor of humans)".

Limited as my knowledge in this area is, I may be mistaken in this description.

Anyone who better understands this feel free to correct any inaccuracies.
 
That is a cop out. The truth is you probably can't show it without huge time gaps and missing links. I would like to see proof of the one species that some here claim both man and ape came from.

Of course there are missing links and time gaps

Dieing animals did not have the courtesy to die in a spot that would allow for fossilized remains to be left for millions if not tens of millions of years to ensure that a steady progression of biological changes can be charted over time

The darn carnivores, fungus and bacteria decided to decompose the vast majority of remains of the dead
 
Of course there are missing links and time gaps

Dieing animals did not have the courtesy to die in a spot that would allow for fossilized remains to be left for millions if not tens of millions of years to ensure that a steady progression of biological changes can be charted over time

The darn carnivores, fungus and bacteria decided to decompose the vast majority of remains of the dead

And herein lies the problem. there are only a limited amount of environments that are conducive to fossilization, This is why you have a handful of areas that are hotbeds for finding fossils such as the Burgess Shale in Canada, Wyoming, North Dakota, and also sites in China for Dinosaur fossils, and the Rift valley for hominid fossils.

I assume when Ptif uses the term he apes, he is meaning Gorillas, but even if he meant other (great) apes (other than humans) such as Chimps, Bonobos, Orangutangs, there is one problem with finding fossils of their ancestors: their preferred habitat are in jungle environments, among the most hostile possible environments for fossilization there are. The only area of Africa that we can really get a good record of hominid lineage is one are, the rift valley - an environment that was not suited for tree dwelling species, it would have only drawn hominids that had a leg up on the others (so to speak-- actually 2 legs up), those that were not dependent on the trees, and those that were able to cover open ground for food.. in other words (ptif..note this phrase, it is not "another words"), bipedals that walked on two legs.. our ancestors.

Prif is bouncing for joy in his chair now thinking "see you have no proof". We have comparative anatomy, we have DNA similarities, we are able to date these changes, we have shared retroviruses in the exact same locations in our genomes, we have way above and beyond the requirements of beyond a reasonable doubt.

and as a youtuber (AronRa) who makes awesome videos likes to say, the proof that we came from apes is the fact that WE ARE APES!!

So yes ptif, humans did descend from apes, and we all did this very very recently, my biological mother and father are both apes and I descended from them, just like every other person in this world descended from their own ape mother and their own ape father. On the same token you are right as well ptif, humans did descend from apes, I am an ape, and my parents were human (and apes too!)

---------------------------------------------
since I dropped his name here is a link to AronRa's channel: ‪AronRa's Channel‬‏ - YouTube

A lot of great videos there, I recommend his Foundational falsehoods series, from part 6 (I think) onwards they are all rather topical to this discussion (evolution in general, and a fair amount of emphasis specifically on hominid evolution)
 
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So yes ptif, humans did descend from apes, and we all did this very very recently, my biological mother and father are both apes and I descended from them, just like every other person in this world descended from their own ape mother and their own ape father. On the same token you are right as well ptif, apes did descend from humans, I am an ape, and my parents were human (and apes too!).

Correction in the last line of my post, trying to keep humans from apes, and apes from humans sorted correctly while on the first cup of coffee failed.
 
My limited knowledge of this area indicates that the evidence is majority genetic/DNA based - as in, examination and comparison of human DNA with the DNA of other primates, then backtracking the similar code to predict the common ancestor.

For example, the link you presented in the OP was apparently about a study (or so we eventually were informed, 2 links later) in which the scientists involved presented a theory - with evidence to back it up - that basically said (as I understood it) "humans are not evolved from chimps, but rather chips evolved from the same ancestor that humans evolved from - in some ways, you could say chimps evolved from humans (as in an ancestor of humans)".

Limited as my knowledge in this area is, I may be mistaken in this description.

Anyone who better understands this feel free to correct any inaccuracies.

DNA but no proof of fossils. I say that is cicumstantial at best
 
Of course there are missing links and time gaps

Dieing animals did not have the courtesy to die in a spot that would allow for fossilized remains to be left for millions if not tens of millions of years to ensure that a steady progression of biological changes can be charted over time

The darn carnivores, fungus and bacteria decided to decompose the vast majority of remains of the dead

So then the proof is not really proof with all these missing parts
 
And herein lies the problem. there are only a limited amount of environments that are conducive to fossilization, This is why you have a handful of areas that are hotbeds for finding fossils such as the Burgess Shale in Canada, Wyoming, North Dakota, and also sites in China for Dinosaur fossils, and the Rift valley for hominid fossils.

I assume when Ptif uses the term he apes, he is meaning Gorillas, but even if he meant other (great) apes (other than humans) such as Chimps, Bonobos, Orangutangs, there is one problem with finding fossils of their ancestors: their preferred habitat are in jungle environments, among the most hostile possible environments for fossilization there are. The only area of Africa that we can really get a good record of hominid lineage is one are, the rift valley - an environment that was not suited for tree dwelling species, it would have only drawn hominids that had a leg up on the others (so to speak-- actually 2 legs up), those that were not dependent on the trees, and those that were able to cover open ground for food.. in other words (ptif..note this phrase, it is not "another words"), bipedals that walked on two legs.. our ancestors.

Prif is bouncing for joy in his chair now thinking "see you have no proof". We have comparative anatomy, we have DNA similarities, we are able to date these changes, we have shared retroviruses in the exact same locations in our genomes, we have way above and beyond the requirements of beyond a reasonable doubt.

and as a youtuber (AronRa) who makes awesome videos likes to say, the proof that we came from apes is the fact that WE ARE APES!!

So yes ptif, humans did descend from apes, and we all did this very very recently, my biological mother and father are both apes and I descended from them, just like every other person in this world descended from their own ape mother and their own ape father. On the same token you are right as well ptif, humans did descend from apes, I am an ape, and my parents were human (and apes too!)

---------------------------------------------
since I dropped his name here is a link to AronRa's channel: ‪AronRa's Channel‬‏ - YouTube

A lot of great videos there, I recommend his Foundational falsehoods series, from part 6 (I think) onwards they are all rather topical to this discussion (evolution in general, and a fair amount of emphasis specifically on hominid evolution)

You are wrong according to others here that say we did not descend from apes but apes and humans have a common species they evolved from.

So you are more about condemning Christians than talking about evolution
 
DNA but no proof of fossils.

Go look at your original post. It's about a 4.4 million year old FOSSIL of one of OUR ANCESTORS. Now you're saying that there are no fossils? This is amazing dude.
 
So then the proof is not really proof with all these missing parts

The fossils are not needed, there are ample lines of evidence to prov this well beyond a shadow of a doubt even if there was not a single fossil.

DNA but no proof of fossils. I say that is cicumstantial at best

You can say whatever you want, does not make it so. There are no requirements that any of this fits your unique and special requirements and definition for "proof"
 
You are wrong according to others here that say we did not descend from apes but apes and humans have a common species they evolved from.

So you are more about condemning Christians than talking about evolution


We are apes, we are apes we are apes, we are apes, we are apes, we are apes, we are apes, we are apes, we are apes.

Which part of this do you not understand?

edit: btw? condemning Christians? WTF in my post was condemning Christians? How the **** do you manage to pull this **** out of your ass?
 
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Go look at your original post. It's about a 4.4 million year old FOSSIL of one of OUR ANCESTORS. Now you're saying that there are no fossils? This is amazing dude.

Ancestor? It is a fossil that contradicts some theories so it means more research is needed according to the OP
 
The fossils are not needed, there are ample lines of evidence to prov this well beyond a shadow of a doubt even if there was not a single fossil.



You can say whatever you want, does not make it so. There are no requirements that any of this fits your unique and special requirements and definition for "proof"

No fossils are needed to show the progression. Using DNA just shows general information
 
We are apes, we are apes we are apes, we are apes, we are apes, we are apes, we are apes, we are apes, we are apes.

Which part of this do you not understand?

edit: btw? condemning Christians? WTF in my post was condemning Christians? How the **** do you manage to pull this **** out of your ass?

You may be an ape I am not
 
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