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Why don’t they call free COVID testing, treatment, and vaccination Pelosi-care, anyway?
1. It really should be called Pelosicare. It had failed to pass and she picked it up and dragged it over the finish line. I don't give her much credit for much, being barely coherent, but she did get the ACA pushed through.
The quote in question is not ambiguous. It’s a pretty articulately explained position. You disagree with it, and that’s okay. Or you sincerely think “surge” comes from insurgent.
Biden’s policy seems to be to follow the law. Don’t like law, change it.
And I dealt with women running from Central America who were raped in their journey, and Haitians and Cubans who had to deal with leaky boats. (You think Jews fleeing the Holocaust weren’t ever abused or exploited.) In my work with refugees, I met and dealt with people well treated by smugglers and people abused by smugglers. Blame immoral smugglers, not Biden for the fence incident. Would you praise Biden if smugglers gave food and water and ladders to migrants?
Not an answer to the question at hand. Nobody put the word in her mouth. What did she mean by it?
To answer your last question, if Biden didn’t claim it, he should have. Trump indeed broke established law, and suggested worse. And there have been surges of migrants under both Trump and Obama before them. Trump’s message: don’t come, we will break the law and rules of common decency in dealing with you. Biden’s message; don’t come, we will abide by the law and rules of common decency in dealing with you.Biden’s responsible if his political rhetoric encouraged desperate people to pay smugglers to ply their trade. To be sure, after Trump reduced the surges during his term, it’s likely that smugglers were looking for a new angle to assure customers of results. Hence, an unprecedented surge of minors.
Biden had a lot of rhetoric accusing Trump of cruelty. But does anyone remember him claiming that Trump broke established law on immigration and asylum seekers?
"In the context of the Iraq War, the surge refers to United States President George W. ... Bush ordered the deployment of more than 20,000 soldiers into Iraq (five additional brigades), and sent the majority of them into Baghdad."You and AOC wrongly claimed that surge is a military word. I showed that it is not. There is not much more I can do for you.
"In the context of the Iraq War, the surge refers to United States President George W. ... Bush ordered the deployment of more than 20,000 soldiers into Iraq (five additional brigades), and sent the majority of them into Baghdad."
Try again?
Can't anyone read around here? Representative Ocasio-Cortez said, " “Anyone who’s using the term ‘surge’ around you consciously is trying to invoke a militaristic frame. And that’s a problem because this is not a surge — these are children. They are not insurgents, and we are not being invaded. Which, by the way, is a white supremacist idea, philosophy. The idea that if an ‘other’ is coming in the population that this is an invasion of who we are.”1. There are lots of words used in the military. Does that make them military words? Are electricians militaristic when they talk about power surges?
2. The surge was regarding our troops, not insurgents. So even in your flawed example has AOC getting it backwards.
Biden's immigration policies have been a huge stimulus for drug cartels and coyotes while placing financial burdens on the states as they ship thousands of illegals to a city near you.Biden’s responsible if his political rhetoric encouraged desperate people to pay smugglers to ply their trade. To be sure, after Trump reduced the surges during his term, it’s likely that smugglers were looking for a new angle to assure customers of results. Hence, an unprecedented surge of minors.
Biden had a lot of rhetoric accusing Trump of cruelty. But does anyone remember him claiming that Trump broke established law on immigration and asylum seekers?
just for you, comment #184Biden's immigration policies have been a huge stimulus for drug cartels and coyotes while placing financial burdens on the states as they ship thousands of illegals to a city near you.
AOC is a barely literate moron. She is an embarrassment yet who seems to have support among those who appear to be even dumber.
Can't anyone read around here? Representative Ocasio-Cortez said, " “Anyone who’s using the term ‘surge’ around you consciously is trying to invoke a militaristic frame. And that’s a problem because this is not a surge — these are children. They are not insurgents, and we are not being invaded. Which, by the way, is a white supremacist idea, philosophy. The idea that if an ‘other’ is coming in the population that this is an invasion of who we are.”
Please explain how that quote fits with your #2 sentence?
Pro-tip: if you want to gaslight people about what someone else said, don't actually quote what they said.
It's ****ing obvious what she's saying: that the GOP is calling it a surge and that this is perfectly in line with their overall approach to painting people who present at the border to seek asylum as US law allows as "criminal invaders" or the like.
You keep conflating “surge” with “insurgent”. I still am unclear as to why that’s her problem? It’s not my or anyone else’s job to help you land a joke that’s a self-own.
To answer your last question, if Biden didn’t claim it, he should have. Trump indeed broke established law, and suggested worse. And there have been surges of migrants under both Trump and Obama before them. Trump’s message: don’t come, we will break the law and rules of common decency in dealing with you. Biden’s message; don’t come, we will abide by the law and rules of common decency in dealing with you.
The US Refugee Act of 1980, the US ratified Convention and the Protocol Relating to the Status of Refugees, and the Convention Against Torture. To be fair, he may have been checked by the courts or be checked upon further appeal and by more knowledgeable people in his administration, and his intentions to break the law may have ended at just that.What law or rules do you believe Trump broke, specifically?
You keep avoiding the question and I'll keep asking: in what context does AOC use the word?
The US Refugee Act of 1980, the US ratified Convention and the Protocol Relating to the Status of Refugees, and the Convention Against Torture. To be fair, he may have been checked by the courts or be checked upon further appeal and by more knowledgeable people in his administration, and his intentions to break the law may have ended at just that.
The US Refugee Act of 1980, the US ratified Convention and the Protocol Relating to the Status of Refugees, and the Convention Against Torture. To be fair, he may have been checked by the courts or be checked upon further appeal and by more knowledgeable people in his administration, and his intentions to break the law may have ended at just that.
I didn’t avoid anything, even once. If you want to keep harping on the fact that you think “surge” comes from “insurgent”, I’m here for it.
But they are criminal invaders... they are invading a land illegally. No passports. No border checks. No legal entry.Pro-tip: if you want to gaslight people about what someone else said, don't actually quote what they said.
It's ****ing obvious what she's saying: that the GOP is calling it a surge and that this is perfectly in line with their overall approach to painting people who present at the border to seek asylum as US law allows as "criminal invaders" or the like.
Now whether you agree with that or not is one thing. But why try to idiotically gaslight people into thinking she was saying something else, @Fishking? Just wanna stir the pot? Or did you genuinely not understand what she said? It's pretty straight-forward.
I don't think Trump has committed any torture that I am aware of, but for the record, he advocated "torture worse than waterboarding" for terrorist suspects as well as war crimes by his call to "take out their families." Bottom line on The Donald: I think he is sort of a vicious idiot on human rights issues. (Having Stephen Miller, a non-idiot vicious person advising him didn't help.) Trump is probably ignorant of many US human rights obligations and probably wouldn't care if informed. He also doesn't think things through, though that is not an earth-shaking observation on my part. For example, if given the chance, I would ask if his "take out their families" wish would include pregnant family members, thus contradicting his alleged pro-life stance.So are you counting his alleged intentions to violate the law as actual violations? So far even Biden has managed to sell the American people on that notion, though not for lack of trying.
++ As I said, I don't know if his attempts to violate the law were overturned, moot point now. So for example, Trump moved to decline asylum people fleeing drug gang violence, a violation of the Refugee Act. I don't know if he ever did so before he was stopped by the courts or if it came to that.
Both extreme liberals and extreme conservatives show a marked tendency to enshrine laws as religious precepts, as long as they're laws a given group agrees with. If not, they're "bad laws." The simple truth is that all laws exist in a constant state of re-negotiation. I've seen allegations that Trump attempted to modify aspects of immigration law for his political ends, just as Biden is doing now. Modifying, however, is not breaking; modifying is a process of re-negotiation that takes place through legal re-interpretation.
++ As to "modification" of laws, you have to distinguish between what is within a president's discretion in immigration, e.g., Carter's allowing Mariel Cubans to come to the US en masse, or ICE under Trump allowing into the US people who meet a minimal standard for asylum, from what is mandatory, e.g., allowing someone to apply for asylum "irrespective of status," i.e., whether they are here on a visa, at a port of entry, here illegally, etc.
I looked up the usual online source for the United Nations Convention Against Torture, and found this definition of torture:
"For the purpose of this Convention, the term "torture" means any act by which severe pain or suffering, whether physical or mental, is intentionally inflicted on a person for such purposes as obtaining from him, or a third person, information or a confession, punishing him for an act he or a third person has committed or is suspected of having committed, or intimidating or coercing him or a third person, or for any reason based on discrimination of any kind, when such pain or suffering is inflicted by or at the instigation of or with the consent or acquiescence of a public official or other person acting in an official capacity. It does not include pain or suffering arising only from, inherent in, or incidental to, lawful sanctions."
Note first that the convention focuses on torture for the purpose of obtaining information or confessions, punishing the subject for crimes, or intimidation. Note second the final sentence:
"It does not include pain or suffering arising only from, inherent in, or incidental to, lawful sanctions."
++ Sorry, I didn't explain clearly. I didn't bring up the Convention Against Torture to make the case against "kids in cages." But that ratified treaty includes what is called a "non-refoulement" provision, the prohibition against returning someone to a country where they might be tortured. It is similar somewhat to the non-refoulement prohibition in the Protocol Relating to the Status of Refugees.
If you're holding up the Convention as a model of probity, then you need to make clear what form of extra-legal torture you think Trump committed. not just, say, spout the usual "kids in cages" routine. Especially not now that Biden has done his own caging.
What did AOC mean by "insurgent," if she's not claiming it's somehow associated with "surge?"
I know you'll never answer, but it's funny to see how you flail to turn AOC's mistake against other posters.
I checked dictionaries. They are.It’s funnier to keep watching you admit you think the two words are connected.
I don't think Trump has committed any torture that I am aware of, but for the record, he advocated "torture worse than waterboarding" for terrorist suspects as well as war crimes by his call to "take out their families." Bottom line on The Donald: I think he is sort of a vicious idiot on human rights issues. (Having Stephen Miller, a non-idiot vicious person advising him didn't help.) Trump is probably ignorant of many US human rights obligations and probably wouldn't care if informed. He also doesn't think things through, though that is not an earth-shaking observation on my part. For example, if given the chance, I would ask if his "take out their families" wish would include pregnant family members, thus contradicting his alleged pro-life stance.
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