Anyone read the Lost not Stolen report yet?

[Outonalimb]

LOL It is not the number of sources which "debunk" it, it is their viewpoint bias (much like your own) that undermines my faith in such.

I have seen the evidence, and I cannot believe that the telephone tracking which clearly shows certain phones going to and from the collection site and then round and round again to drop box locations is some kind of "electronic mistake," or mistake of purpose.

I have lost all trust in agencies who try to explain this stuff away.

Yes, you've allowed the innerts to lead you to misinformation and find it truthful because it confirms your biases.

 

[Torus34]

Was the 2020 Presidential election stolen? No.
Were there errors and irregularities in the process? Yes.
Were the errors and irregularities sufficient to change the results in any state? No.
Did some people 'cheat'? Yes.

The legislatures of states in which problems were identified can, if they wish, correct them.

Meanwhile, people will remain people, with all that implies. Some will make errors. Some will cheat. It's only necessary that such irregularities remain controlled to the extent that they will not affect the final results.

I think that about sums it up.

Next topic?

Regards, stay safe 'n well 'n remember the Big 5.

 

[Captain Adverse]

Yes, you've allowed the innerts to lead you to misinformation and find it truthful because it confirms your biases.

Not really.

This is not my first "go-round" regarding problems with voting, much less mail-in voting. I was aware of it when it was just standard absentee ballots. It's been a concern of mine looong before this last election made it a national option instead of just the old form of requesting absentee ballots for the elderly, absent, and indigent.

So I know it happens, and IMO with the cluster-f*** created by a rush to national mass-mail voting, I retain a good-faith belief that there was some major fraud going on.

 

[phoenix2020]

Bit of a pot calling the kettle black, isn't that?

I state clearly that I accept Biden has been legally confirmed by Congress as President. That NOTHING can change that.

The fact that I have a good faith belief there were many, many problems with the election mostly surrounding the collection and processing of mail-in ballots, is not a "refusal to accept the results."

As for any "report" you've provided? I am not going to bother with it.

This because I am already aware of both a Wisconsin investigation (discussed in another thread) which cast doubts on collection of ballots from nursing homes, as well as the NOT "debunked" 2000 Mules movie issue of drop box shenanigans. Then there are my own long-standing concerns over mass-mails balloting which strengthens my doubts.

What's done is done, but that does not mean I have to also accept it was a "fair" election when IMO nothing could be further from the truth.

Like I said, you’ll proudly declare that you’re not going to read something that might cast doubt on the Big Lie, then you’ll proceed to rehash the Big Lie. At least you’re predictable.

 

[Captain Adverse]

Like I said, you’ll proudly declare that you’re not going to read something that might cast doubt on the Big Lie, then you’ll proceed to rehash the Big Lie. At least you’re predictable.

No. At least I am honest about it. There is a difference.

IMO the ONLY way it can be debunked is if every single person who voted by mass-mail voting is contacted, and enough in each State indicate that the vote was not only theirs, and that they were mentally competent, but that they voted as they chose, and were not coerced, cajoled, nor bribed to do so.

 

[phoenix2020]

No. At least I am honest about it. There is a difference.

There’s nothing honest about your posts. You have a fiction in your mind of some vaguely defined worry, not supported by facts, that you take to be true on faith (your word). If information emerges that supports your faith, you’ll accept and promulgate it. If information emerges to the contrary, you will either discredit it or ignore it. That had played out before, it’s playing out on this thread and it will play out again. As I said… predictable.

You said you have this feeling on good faith. Incorrect. It’s on bad faith. Were it on good faith, you’d read the report and allow your faith to be challenged.

 

[LouC]

It's available at lostnotstolen.org

"The Conservative Case that Trump Lost and Biden Won the 2020 Presidential Election"

I haven't tackled it yet, but am thinking to getting around to it sooner rather than later.

I read it several days ago.

Everyone should read it, all sides of the political spectrum.

It is well written, concise, very informative, and doesn't come off bombastic.

It is a logical affirmation of simple truths rather than a refutation of big lies.

At least I felt that from my reading of it.

 

[noonereal]

I'm looking forward to reading the report. Nobody's better at cheating elections more than Civil Rights Leaders and Union Bosses. C'mon man, how do you think Biden beat Trump in 2020?

If you live in a civilized non rural area you know damned well Trump lost in a landslide.

 

[Captain Adverse]

There’s nothing honest about your posts. You have a fiction in your mind of some vaguely defined worry, not supported by facts, that you take to be true on faith (your word). If information emerges that supports your faith, you’ll accept and promulgate it. If information emerges to the contrary, you will either discredit it or ignore it. That had played out before, it’s playing out on this thread and it will play out again. As I said… predictable.

You said you have this feeling on good faith. Incorrect. It’s on bad faith. Were it on good faith, you’d read the report and allow your faith to be challenged.

Now you are just being insulting.

Ad hominin is not an argument. You may now join the ranks of those permanently pointed to my tagline, see below.

 

[LouC]

No. At least I am honest about it. There is a difference.

IMO the ONLY way it can be debunked is if every single person who voted by mass-mail voting is contacted, and enough in each State indicate that the vote was not only theirs, and that they were mentally competent, but that they voted as they chose, and were not coerced, cajoled, nor bribed to do so.

At least you are honest about promoting the most needless asinine notion I have yet seen regarding the 2020 Election.

Kudos for that!

 

[mike2810]

I have read the report. It is a good summary of known results of audits and reports. It is critical of efforts done by Cyber Ninjas and other groups who are saying the election was stolen.

The report authors agree with the findings of other reports/audits that Trump lost the election.

 

[phoenix2020]

Now you are just being insulting.

Ad hominin is not an argument. You may now join the ranks of those permanently pointed to my tagline, see below.

Like I said, so predictable!

 

[Cardinal]

It's available at lostnotstolen.org

"The Conservative Case that Trump Lost and Biden Won the 2020 Presidential Election"

I haven't tackled it yet, but am thinking to getting around to it sooner rather than later.

Why? Non-conspiracy theorists don't need it, and the people who need it won't believe it.

 

[Captain Adverse]

At least you are honest about promoting the most needless asinine notion I have yet seen regarding the 2020 Election.

Kudos for that!

LOL

Thanks for the back-handed "compliment."

But I do not consider my argument "asinine," since as I've stated, and argued well before this last election, I have little faith in the security of mass-mail-in voting.

I do not doubt that Biden won the popular vote. But like Hillary in 2016, I don't think Biden won the electoral vote, because I do not trust the mass-mail vote results in so many States that rushed the process.

It remains the electoral vote, not the popular vote, that counts.

 

[Felis Leo]

I'm looking forward to reading the report. Nobody's better at cheating elections more than Civil Rights Leaders and Union Bosses. C'mon man, how do you think Biden beat Trump in 2020?

Probably because more people despised Trump and thought he was an incompetent fool than thought Biden was an addlepated nincompoop.

 

[mike2810]

LOL

Thanks for the back-handed "compliment."

But I do not consider my argument "asinine," since as I've stated, and argued well before this last election, I have little faith in the security of mass-mail-in voting.

I do not doubt that Biden won the popular vote. But like Hillary in 2016, I don't think Biden won the electoral vote, because I do not trust the mass mail vote results in so many States that rushed the process.

It remains the electoral vote, not the popular vote, that counts.

Your opinion about mail in votes is noted.
Said it before, The voting system in Arizona was set by Republicans. In 2020 we had a Republican Governor, AG, Legislature, and many of the County Board of Supervisors. All of them praised the election system. Some complained only after Trump lost. The ones complaining the most are those Republicans seeking election in some position and are Trump supporters.

 

[Captain Adverse]

Probably because more people despised Trump and thought he was an incompetent fool than thought Biden was an addlepated nincompoop.

That would easily account for the popular vote. However (thank the Founders) the President is elected via State electoral votes.

I have never trusted mass-mail voting, since I have known of various fraud in the past using that method. That is where I doubt the results until proven otherwise.

Doesn't change a thing regarding the 2020 election results though, except perhaps my hope to make the method more secure in the future.

 

[lemmiwinx]

I'd go 50/49 that Biden is a worse option than Trump. The guy is totally being sent out with every word he says scripted by former Obama staffers.

 

[Felis Leo]

I'd go 50/49 that Biden is a worse option than Trump. The guy is totally being sent out with every word he says scripted by former Obama staffers.

Even if I were to agree with that assessment, that could really only be known in retrospect. The country was clearly tired of Trump's antics, showboating, and apparent poor planning and leadership during the COVID-19 pandemic. We didn't know what a poor leader Biden was going to be in the face of the myriad problems facing America this past year and a half.

 

[LouC]

LOL

Thanks for the back-handed "compliment."

But I do not consider my argument "asinine," since as I've stated, and argued well before this last election, I have little faith in the security of mass-mail-in voting.

I do not doubt that Biden won the popular vote. But like Hillary in 2016, I don't think Biden won the electoral vote, because I do not trust the mass-mail vote results in so many States that rushed the process.

It remains the electoral vote, not the popular vote, that counts.

Your little faith is irrelevant to reality,

 

[upsideguy]

I'm looking forward to reading the report. Nobody's better at cheating elections more than Civil Rights Leaders and Union Bosses. C'mon man, how do you think Biden beat Trump in 2020?

First, the election was not Biden v Trump, it was Trump v Not Trump. Most 2nd term elections are a referendum on the sitting POTUS. Trump had 60% of country, at one point, saying they would not vote for him. Its amazing that he finished in the high 40's.

The election outcome was exceptionally consistent with the polls leading up to the election. 538.com pretty much nailed it, really only getting Florida wrong. Anyone that was surprised that Trump lost was merely not paying attention/ignorant of politics.

ABC News – Breaking News, Latest News and Videos

ABC News is your trusted source on political news stories and videos. Get the latest coverage and analysis on everything from the Trump presidency, Senate, House and Supreme Court.

projects.fivethirtyeight.com

 

[Mach]

That does not stop anyone from thinking the process was perverted, twisted, improperly organized, with massive "last minute changes" promulgated by fears of infection during the Covid-19 pandemic.

Sure, but without evidence, why are Republicans believing it?
They believe because they want to, and because their right wing echo-chamber supports the lie.

 

[Chomsky]

trump nation has reduced itself to it’s roots. They’re now bellowing this tired old made up BS that they’ve been ranting for 50 years.

Your focus on civil rights leaders is telling.

I always wondered why anyone would believe that trump was going to wave a magic wand, and all the old time heavy industry would reappear, along with the high paying low skill jobs (miraculously delivered without unions!).

The whole thing was ridiculous. The pathetic part was that some people actually believed it.

Hear! Hear!

 

[Chomsky]

Was the 2020 Presidential election stolen? No.
Were there errors and irregularities in the process? Yes.
Were the errors and irregularities sufficient to change the results in any state? No.
Did some people 'cheat'? Yes.

The legislatures of states in which problems were identified can, if they wish, correct them.

Meanwhile, people will remain people, with all that implies. Some will make errors. Some will cheat. It's only necessary that such irregularities remain controlled to the extent that they will not affect the final results.

I think that about sums it up.

Next topic?

Regards, stay safe 'n well 'n remember the Big 5.

You're being far too kind to the liars, in the bolded.

In numerical & statistical & practical terms, there was substantively no 'cheating' or 'irregularities' to be had. This was the most audited election ever, and it's been found 100% sound.

I wouldn't give an inch to these liars; screw 'em. What they're doing is dastardly & beyond the pale.

 

[911Sparky]

Bit of a pot calling the kettle black, isn't that?

I state clearly that I accept Biden has been legally confirmed by Congress as President. That NOTHING can change that.

The fact that I have a good faith belief there were many, many problems with the election mostly surrounding the collection and processing of mail-in ballots, is not a "refusal to accept the results."

As for any "report" you've provided? I am not going to bother with it.

This because I am already aware of both a Wisconsin investigation (discussed in another thread) which cast doubts on collection of ballots from nursing homes, as well as the NOT "debunked" 2000 Mules movie issue of drop box shenanigans. Then there are my own long-standing concerns over mass-mails balloting which strengthens my doubts.

What's done is done, but that does not mean I have to also accept it was a "fair" election when IMO nothing could be further from the truth.

Can you explain to me why mail in ballots have been used for years and only called into question when trump lost, and claimed victory was stolen from him.
In Arizona for example mail in voting is the preferred method of voting, yet their elections have never been in question until 2020.