ChristopherHall
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steen said:I don't feel your post makes sense. Democrats have never been opposed to meassures that might reduce the need for abortions.
But such policies of sex-ed, contraception and support for pregnant women tend to be opposed by the pro-lifers.:roll:
“However I believe that is in part due to villianization. For example many are cast as Pro-Abortion when in fact most are Pro-Choice.”
“My mother in law is Pro-Choice but would never be Pro-Abortion. She would never advocate that a woman terminate her pregnancy, however, she believes that after all is said and done the painful choice should be on the mother not government.”
You asked the question, “Why do some of the most progressive nations have lower abortion rates?”
You said, “In America two out of three women who have abortions live well below the poverty level. One out of every three women who chooses to have abortion is married and has children.” Mind giving the source.
“The Republicans have no policy measures beyond abstinence and jail. That is why they will fail.”
You also said, “In the end what matters is the number of lives saved.”
“After all is said and done and real "policies" are considered...the Democrats are far more "Pro-Life" than Republicans.”
The quote you have at the bottom of your posts says this…. "I think it's a good thing for a president or political leaders to want to put their values or their faith into action. Desmond Tutu did that in South Africa. Martin Luther King Jr. did that here. This is a good thing." - Rev. Jim Wallis
"I join the voices of thousands across America who can no longer sit idly by and allow this horrible spirit of murder to cut down," King says. "If the Dream of Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr., is to live, our babies must live." (Dr. Alveda King, the late religious leader's niece)
http://www.angelfire.com/mo/baha/king.html
Democrats have started to talk about abortion in a different way. They want America to think they are pro-life. They are softening their stance a little in order to gain votes. They MUST do this or they will not win elections. The voting records of Democrats speak for themselves.
"You may already know that our 95-10 Initiative has garnered the attention of the media and of lawmakers around the country. Now, 95-10 is being heralded by Democratic strategists Paul Begala and James Carville as a practical solution to the tragedy of abortion in their new book, "Take It Back: Our Country, Our Party, Our Future." Read the following excerpt:
"A group of pro-life Democrats called, appropriately enough, Democrats for Life, has come up with what it calls the 95-10 Initiative. Its goal is to reduce abortions by 95 percent in ten years. The 95-10 Initiative has been championed in the House of Representatives by Tim Ryan, a bright and engaging congressman from Ohio. One of the youngest members of Congress, Ryan was fed up with extremists on both sides who endlessly debated Roe v. Wade without doing anything constructive to reduce the need for or number of abortions. The 95-10 Initiative is built around seventeen concrete policy proposals that would reduce the number of abortions. In announcing their plan, the pro-life Democrats said their goals are to empower women, to defend pregnant women, and to protect unborn children... Democrats should challenge Republicans who do nothing more than give lip service to pro-lifers to put some policy behind their speeches. This is both good politics, and we think, good policy."
DFLA Speaks Out About Dangers of RU-486
Kristen Day addresses Press Conference on Holly's Law
http://www.democratsforlife.org/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=118&Itemid=2
Washington, DC - Feb 01, 2006 On February 1, 2006, Kristen Day addressed members of the media at a press conference urging members of Congress to bring Holly's Law, H.R. 1079, to the House floor for a vote. Holly's Law, named in honor of a victim who died from taking RU-486, calls for a ban on the distribution of the drug until the FDA can reconsider the potentially deadly side effects.
Statement on Holly's Law
“I am not here as a pro-life Democrat who believes that America should reduce the abortion rate. I am here because the lives of pregnant women are at risk when they are given RU-486.”
“My name is Kristen Day and I am the Executive Director of Democrats for Life of America. Democrats for Life is proud to be a supporter of this legislation.”
“We are also proud to be here with our Democratic friends in Congress who support this bill: Representatives Lincoln Davis, Daniel Lipinski, Alan Mollohan, Gene Taylor and Bart Stupak. We are calling upon Congress to stand-up and protect women’s health by supporting this life-saving legislation.”
“Let me say that again. Holly’s Law, will save lives by banning the use of RU-486 until the drug can be deemed safe by the FDA.”
“But don’t take my word for it, listen to the people who make RU-486. Recently, RU-486’s manufacturer publicly admitted that their drug is dangerous when used for the purpose of ending a pregnancy. This is why the FDA should carefully review the cases of death and injury that have already been documented as a result of RU-486 usage.”
“No matter if you’re pro-choice or pro-life, we can all agree that approving a drug that has reportedly seriously injured or killed hundreds of women is a mistake. That’s why we’re here today to plead with Congress to approve this legislation that will require more study on why women are dying after they are prescribed RU-486.”
“Arguments in favor of medically-induced abortions have celebrated the "privacy" that RU-486 provides women. But it is important to remember that suffering and loss are no less painful when experienced in private. Death is no less final when a woman experiences it in her own bedroom two or three days after receiving this drug.”
“This bill comes at a time when we’ve seen countless reports of the FDA coming under fire for a multitude of errors in the approval and labeling of certain prescription medications. RU-486 is another example of drug that was hastily approved without regard for the health and safety of consumers.”
Simply put, RU-486 is not a safe drug for the women who take it. This is precisely why Democrats for Life believes that it is incumbent upon our government to protect the health and safety of women and their unborn children. The continued use of RU-486 should be immediately suspended until the FDA can fully evaluate the potential hazards that this drug poses for pregnant women.” -30-
Learn more...
DFLA
Kristen Day
Executive Director
email: info@democratsforlife.org
phone: 202-220-3066
Abortion: Wedge Issue or Reducing the Tragedy?
By Tim Roemer
http://www.democratsforlife.org/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=120&Itemid=2
Washington, DC - Feb 02, 2006 In the 1960’s, America was divided over a centuries old debate on racial justice. Opinion was polarized and progress stalled until Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. helped change the heart of the nation. His commitment to non-violence and appeal to our best ideals opened hearts and minds and made the path for progress possible. Inspired by King’s personal courage, Presidents Kennedy and Johnson showed political courage within a divided political party and a divided nation by taking on a moral issue “as old as the Scriptures and as clear as the American Constitution.”
While putting aside the debate on the legality of abortion, “Democrats for Life” have developed a plan with the goal of achieving a 95% reduction in the number of abortions within the next ten years. Congressman Tim Ryan is keen to introduce this plan entitled the “95/10 Initiative,” which is grounded in sound research, bold ideas, and common sense. Research conducted by the Alan Guttmacher Institute shows that half of pregnancies in this country are unplanned and half of those end in abortion. The realities of economic hardship also factor into women’s choice for abortion. The 95/10 Initiative takes this research into account and has developed an innovative two-part strategy.
First, it addresses the three million unintended pregnancies per year through grants for age appropriate pregnancy prevention education. We must be capable of openly discussing appropriate sex education programs, promoting abstinence for teens, and generously funding contraception and counseling. Second, it provides support for pregnant women in ways that encourage them to continue their pregnancies such as day care, pregnancy counseling on campuses, permanent adoption tax credits, better availability for referral information, shelters for women and children in crisis pregnancies, support for safe haven laws and better medical insurance for mothers and children through their first year of life.
The strength of the 95/10 Initiative is not only in its compelling content but also in the momentum it has generated within the Democratic Party. Announced in the Democratic National Committee offices and endorsed by both pro-choice and pro-life Democrats, it represents an important step forward for the Party. This initiative is not the only step forward. Democrats are united behind the senatorial candidacy of Robert Casey, Jr. in Pennsylvania. Casey is a pro-life Democrat. The enthusiastic support for candidate Casey among party leaders is a tangible sign of a more inclusive attitude that reflects the wisdom of a majority party. Recent statements by Senators Clinton, Kerry and DNC Chairman Howard Dean recognize the need for a more sophisticated approach to the complex issue of abortion. Given these developments I believe the Democratic Party has made more progress on this issue in the last ten months than in the past ten years.
It may seem that we should expect Republicans to make common cause with us in this endeavor, and perhaps a few individuals will join in support of 95-10. However, the Republican power base, still wrestling with the facts of evolution, is paralyzed by mainstream policy proposals to reduce abortions. Still after years of Republican control of the House of Representatives and five years of a Republican President, abortion rates for 2004 remain at about 1.3 million per year.
If talk were a solution the problem would be solved. We can all recite the favored lines about life and culture and family. But, talk is ultimately no different than tin cans tied behind a moving car – an empty rattle that fades into the background noise and has no important impact. America has paid a high moral and political price for the ten year stalemate on reducing the number of abortions. We should demand and provide something better. The 95/10 Initiative allows Democrats to take the lead in doing just that. Democrats have provided effective political leadership and innovative policy proposals to reduce homelessness, decrease poverty, and address hunger. Today, abortion presents the same challenges within another critical social issue.
About the Author
Tim Roemer is the President of the Center for National Policy and a former U.S. Representative from Indiana.
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DFLA
Kristen Day
Executive Director
email: info@democratsforlife.org
phone: 202-220-3066
“"Faith without works is dead."
“The game is over. The Democrats are drafting Pro-Life policy to reduce abortion in our country even while Roe still stands. It's time to ask yourself where your values truly are...are you really Pro-Life or Republican?”
“Let me remind you that the abortion rate was higher in America back when abortion was largely illegal throughout the states than it is today...and abortion is presently legal.”
We believe in both groups that the key is education. Education about gestational development and what medical science has to say about fetal development.
Those who value life, all life, must work together to end abortion. To blame one party over the other is wrong.
Why did the majority vote for partial birth abortion? Vote to illiminate parental consent?
It is sad that you would think that this issue is a game.
I am neither a Republican or a Democrat. But I would add that because of the Democratic platform on abortion I could never vote for anyone who was a Democrat.
I pray that the Democrats do work towards ending abortion. But until they see abortion as something that kills innocent human fetuses nothing will change.
I will continue speaking out for the millions of innocent lives that are slaughtered and leave the rest to God.
I do not know about you Christopher but after I die I want to be able to look Christ in the eyes and tell Him that I tried, I did my best.
Quote:
“Let me remind you that the abortion rate was higher in America back when abortion was largely illegal throughout the states than it is today...and abortion is presently legal.”
Please site your source.
I pray that the Democrats do work towards ending abortion.
Well, you CLAIM it is a sin.ChristopherHall said:I agree with you that we must stand up and preach against the sin of abortion.
The function of the prolife movement for the last 30 years has been per scare mongering lies and oppression of women. If they abandoned this in favor of helping and supporting women, the pro-choice side would join and abortion rates would immediately drop tremendously. The high abortion rates in the US are directly a product of pro-life policies and tactics.I disagree. If there are measures that can be taken to protect unborn life and the "Pro-Life" party refuses to impliment those measures the blood is on their hands, and perhaps even more so because they are supposed to be "Pro-Life".
Correct. It is solely about fundraising and scare mongering.Why pass a trash bill that will just be overruled by the courts? The Republicans purposefully neglected to meet the court's specified health clause requirements by offering their own version of a health clause. Why? Because the Republicans wanted the bill to be overruled to keep partial birth abortion a living campaign issue. The Republicans were exploiting women, Pro-Life voters, and the very lives of the unborn with the partial birth abortion bill they presented.
This is the result of the “welfare reform” of the conservative pro-life politicians. It strengthens the impression of pro-life being all about the fetus but not caring for women or babies. It continues to give us the evidence that pro-life uses abortion as a means of control and oppression of women. Nothing we see is dissuading us of this impression. Hence the confrontation and lack of change. Pro-life politics and scare mongering deception directly is the reason why America sees so many more abortions than the rest of the Western world. It is pro-life that is the cause for so much “baby killing.” Hence, the pro-life position inherently is hypocritical as presented in general.…. She told me point blank that if she lived in America she couldn't afford medical insurance. Not having medical insurance, being too poor to pay for childcare, and not having the money to pay for the expenses of pregnancy she said she would choose abortion.
Because Democrats are about individual choices and freedom of choice in your personal life. Democrats will happily increase the quality and availability of sex-ed, contraception and support for pregnant women and new families. The ones who oppose this and thus cause the increase in demand for abortions, those are the pro-life conservatives and fundies. THEY are the problem.The Democrats on the other hand have drafted a plan. While yes for the most part they are still "Pro-Choice", they are actually going to push for policies that will save lives.
Agreed. But the pro-life policy goal is not to stop abortion, but rather is about controlling and oppressing women. So they won’t go that route; instead choosing the hate mongering, scare mongering, theocratic, misogynistic, oppressive route. That is why we are still fighting them, and that is why there won’t be any meaningful change in the number of abortions in the US anytime soon.Address the needs and issues women face when confronted with an unplanned or crisis pregnancy and they will not feel so scared and alone.
steen said:I think I can agree with a lot of what you are suggesting for means of reducing the number of abortions. But I suggest that the rest of the pro-lifers will chew you up as your ideas counter their agenda.
If they abandoned this in favor of helping and supporting women, the pro-choice side would join and abortion rates would immediately drop tremendously.
Agreed. But my experience with pro-life is that this is not what they seek. They seek to use abortion as a toll for bringing back the "good old days" of patriarchal, theocratic oppression of women by keeping them in "their place."ChristopherHall said:Then countless lives could be saved and no woman would be oppressed. I believe it would be a win/win situation.
ChristopherHall said, “I believe that education is very important but I wouldn't call it the key and invest all my energies into it. Here's why, people in our generation know more about gestational development than any other generation in history. I believe when it comes to sexual education our generation is the most educated also. Yet this most educated generation still sees frightened women seeking abortions. I believe education in this area is important but actually seeking to meet the needs and assist desperate women with solid national policies that are in their favor are more important.”
You said, “I disagree. If there are measures that can be taken to protect unborn life and the "Pro-Life" party refuses to impliment those measures the blood is on their hands, and perhaps even more so because they are supposed to be "Pro-Life".
“If a young girl becomes pregnant because her father is abusing her and she wants an abortion, notifying her father may bring serious harm to her. Often fathers will beat their daughters for becoming pregnant and then will drive them to the abortion clinics. A parental consent bill should provide some way of protecting a young girl from abusive parents.”
You said, “As I have said before, most Republicans merely want to ban abortion and throw people in jail. Republicans do not have concrete policies that offer assistance or incentives to women facing unwanted or crisis pregnancies so that most of their fears are relieved and they can choose life. “
“While yes for the most part they are still "Pro-Choice", they are actually going to push for policies that will save lives”
“Address the needs and issues women face when confronted with an unplanned or crisis pregnancy and they will not feel so scared and alone.”
“What do you think matters most to God...lives saved or clauses on paper?”
“ In virtually every part of the United States there are abortion alternative centers that provide free pregnancy tests, counseling, and free material and human resources to pregnant woman. There are more pro-life help-giving centers, well over three thousand of them, than there are pro-life education and political action centers. There are more abortion alternative centers in the United States than there are abortion clinics.”
(John Willke, “The Real Woman’s Movement,” National Right to Life News, 14 December 1989,3.)
"What happens to the mind of a person, and the moral fabric of a nation, that accepts the aborting of the life of a baby without a pang of conscience? What kind of a person and what kind of a society will we have 20 years hence if life can be taken so casually? It is that question, the question of our attitude, our value system, and our mind-set with regard to the nature and worth of life itself that is the central question confronting mankind. Failure to answer that question affirmatively may leave us with a hell right here on earth."
--Rev. Jesse Jackson, January 1977
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