• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Another fundamental American principle destroyed by the corrupt right on the Supreme Court

Craig234

DP Veteran
Joined
Apr 22, 2019
Messages
28,326
Reaction score
11,957
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Progressive
Should tax dollars be used to fund religious education? Our country has long recognized the principle of 'separation of church and state', and applied the constitutional prohibition on government establishment of religion to the government paying for religious schools. Until now. The three legitimate justices voted to continue not to allow it, the six radical right pandered to the religious right as Republicans want to overturn the principle.

 

Roadvirus

Heading North
Dungeon Master
DP Veteran
Joined
Aug 19, 2014
Messages
29,702
Reaction score
17,203
Location
Tennessee, USA
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Conservative
Should tax dollars be used to fund religious education? Our country has long recognized the principle of 'separation of church and state', and applied the constitutional prohibition on government establishment of religion to the government paying for religious schools. Until now. The three legitimate justices voted to continue not to allow it, the six radical right pandered to the religious right as Republicans want to overturn the principle.

There's already a thread on this.
 

RetiredUSN

DP Veteran
Joined
Jan 13, 2016
Messages
31,727
Reaction score
17,057
Location
Norfolk Virginia area.
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent
Should tax dollars be used to fund religious education? Our country has long recognized the principle of 'separation of church and state', and applied the constitutional prohibition on government establishment of religion to the government paying for religious schools. Until now. The three legitimate justices voted to continue not to allow it, the six radical right pandered to the religious right as Republicans want to overturn the principle.



Crock of shit.

 

FurriesRock

Banned
Joined
Jun 19, 2022
Messages
660
Reaction score
216
Location
Texas
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Slightly Liberal
Should tax dollars be used to fund religious education? Our country has long recognized the principle of 'separation of church and state', and applied the constitutional prohibition on government establishment of religion to the government paying for religious schools. Until now. The three legitimate justices voted to continue not to allow it, the six radical right pandered to the religious right as Republicans want to overturn the principle.

Tax dollars should fund education. If the religious education is accredited, then there is no problem.

Tax dollars paying for a kids education is not establishing an official religion, so separation of church and state is a non-issue here.
 

independentusa

DP Veteran
Joined
Nov 10, 2016
Messages
11,739
Reaction score
6,339
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Undisclosed
Should tax dollars be used to fund religious education? Our country has long recognized the principle of 'separation of church and state', and applied the constitutional prohibition on government establishment of religion to the government paying for religious schools. Until now. The three legitimate justices voted to continue not to allow it, the six radical right pandered to the religious right as Republicans want to overturn the principle.

Next they will probably tell us that we all have to be evangelical christians
 

Cameron

Politically Correct
DP Veteran
Joined
Oct 26, 2010
Messages
5,455
Reaction score
4,254
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Moderate
I haven't read the decision yet, but it makes sense to me that if the state is going to fund private schools, it shouldn't discriminate based on religious affiliation. I wish the state would not fund private schools. In fact I wish states would ban private schools. But logically and ideologically if private schools are going to be funded by the state it should be on a non-discriminatory basis.
 

Integrityrespec

DP Veteran
Joined
Sep 28, 2018
Messages
17,702
Reaction score
7,681
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Undisclosed
Should tax dollars be used to fund religious education? Our country has long recognized the principle of 'separation of church and state', and applied the constitutional prohibition on government establishment of religion to the government paying for religious schools. Until now. The three legitimate justices voted to continue not to allow it, the six radical right pandered to the religious right as Republicans want to overturn the principle.

You are just wrong. Omitting someone because of religion is establishing a prejudice against it. No establishment of religion and no prevention of he free exercise thereof.
 

Craig234

DP Veteran
Joined
Apr 22, 2019
Messages
28,326
Reaction score
11,957
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Progressive
I haven't read the decision yet, but it makes sense to me that if the state is going to fund private schools, it shouldn't discriminate based on religious affiliation. I wish the state would not fund private schools. In fact I wish states would ban private schools. But logically and ideologically if private schools are going to be funded by the state it should be on a non-discriminatory basis.
I agree I'd rather not fund private schools, but if they do, there is a legitimate basis for "discriminating" to not fund religious schools, and that is the constitutional restriction on state support for a religion. It's one thing to say a private school teaches reading and writing, and another to say it teaches a specific religion. It's little different than the ban on school-led prayer, which the right also wants to overturn.
 

Cameron

Politically Correct
DP Veteran
Joined
Oct 26, 2010
Messages
5,455
Reaction score
4,254
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Moderate
I agree I'd rather not fund private schools, but if they do, there is a legitimate basis for "discriminating" to not fund religious schools, and that is the constitutional restriction on state support for a religion. It's one thing to say a private school teaches reading and writing, and another to say it teaches a specific religion. It's little different than the ban on school-led prayer, which the right also wants to overturn.
But the constitution also says you can't discriminate based on religion. If a state funds secular schools but not religious schools how is that not discrimination based solely on religion? If religion is taken completely out of the equation, I think you get the result the opinion calls for.
 

BirdinHand

DP Veteran
Joined
Feb 28, 2019
Messages
6,809
Reaction score
5,417
Gender
Female
Political Leaning
Undisclosed
There's already a thread on this.
Several.

SCOTUS is making for hot topics on the internet today!

It will be epic when they deliver the "big" ruling later this year.
 

Craig234

DP Veteran
Joined
Apr 22, 2019
Messages
28,326
Reaction score
11,957
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Progressive
Tax dollars should fund education. If the religious education is accredited, then there is no problem.

Tax dollars paying for a kids education is not establishing an official religion, so separation of church and state is a non-issue here.
Wrong. There are many schemes for politicians supporting a particular religion they want votes from with tax dollars.

Bush did it with his "Office of Faith-Based Initiatives", there were many schemes for funneling dollars by replacing government services with church-provided services, and this is another to steer money to political partners who happen to run schools as a vehicle for getting tax dollars. There is a reason the three legitimate Justices vote on the other side. Go read the dissent.
 

Craig234

DP Veteran
Joined
Apr 22, 2019
Messages
28,326
Reaction score
11,957
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Progressive
But the constitution also says you can't discriminate based on religion. If a state funds secular schools but not religious schools how is that not discrimination based solely on religion? If religion is taken completely out of the equation, I think you get the result the opinion calls for.
Because 'no religion' is not just another religion. That's like saying that banning school-led prayer is just as much a religious act as having school-led prayer.
 

Chillfolks

DP Veteran
Joined
May 6, 2016
Messages
15,289
Reaction score
8,483
Location
VA
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Progressive
But the constitution also says you can't discriminate based on religion. If a state funds secular schools but not religious schools how is that not discrimination based solely on religion? If religion is taken completely out of the equation, I think you get the result the opinion calls for.
Well said there should be no valid criticism of the ruling after reading this unless someone is blind to why the constitution says
 

Gateman_Wen

Official disruptive influence
Supporting Member
DP Veteran
Joined
Dec 27, 2017
Messages
9,420
Reaction score
9,096
Location
Middle of it all
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Other
I haven't read the decision yet, but it makes sense to me that if the state is going to fund private schools, it shouldn't discriminate based on religious affiliation. I wish the state would not fund private schools. In fact I wish states would ban private schools. But logically and ideologically if private schools are going to be funded by the state it should be on a non-discriminatory basis.
Religious indoctrination isn't education.
 

FurriesRock

Banned
Joined
Jun 19, 2022
Messages
660
Reaction score
216
Location
Texas
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Slightly Liberal
Wrong. There are many schemes for politicians supporting a particular religion they want votes from with tax dollars.

Bush did it with his "Office of Faith-Based Initiatives", there were many schemes for funneling dollars by replacing government services with church-provided services, and this is another to steer money to political partners who happen to run schools as a vehicle for getting tax dollars. There is a reason the three legitimate Justices vote on the other side. Go read the dissent.
You're just being biased, which is exposed by your use of the term "legitimate justices." You're arguing from a team vs. team viewpoint which means you just don't like anything the other side does, no matter the merits. You're not being rational.
 

Craig234

DP Veteran
Joined
Apr 22, 2019
Messages
28,326
Reaction score
11,957
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Progressive
You're just being biased, which is exposed by your use of the term "legitimate justices." You're arguing from a team vs. team viewpoint which means you just don't like anything the other side does, no matter the merits. You're not being rational.
Your comments are ill-informed to put it much too mildly. They're false. I won't say dishonest, but that's not really a compliment considering the flaws you need to believe them.
 

Chillfolks

DP Veteran
Joined
May 6, 2016
Messages
15,289
Reaction score
8,483
Location
VA
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Progressive
You're just being biased, which is exposed by your use of the term "legitimate justices." You're arguing from a team vs. team viewpoint which means you just don't like anything the other side does, no matter the merits. You're not being rational.

You will either get a big nu-uh as a reply or be blocked because you dare question his partisan rants.
 

FurriesRock

Banned
Joined
Jun 19, 2022
Messages
660
Reaction score
216
Location
Texas
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Slightly Liberal
You will either get a big nu-uh as a reply or be blocked because you dare question his partisan rants.
Thank you, and you're not wrong.

I don't get why so many people act like rabid dogs when debating an idea! It's like they willfully refuse to see reason!

I understand the separation of Church and State, but some people want to use it as an excuse to attack all religious expression in the public sphere.
 

Roger Duke

DP Veteran
Joined
Jun 12, 2021
Messages
4,562
Reaction score
1,034
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Conservative
If public schools weren't turning into indoctrination centers for liberals to corrupt our children, parents wouldn't be pulling their kids out of them.
 

Chillfolks

DP Veteran
Joined
May 6, 2016
Messages
15,289
Reaction score
8,483
Location
VA
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Progressive
Thank you, and you're not wrong.

I don't get why so many people act like rabid dogs when debating an idea! It's like they willfully refuse to see reason!

I understand the separation of Church and State, but some people want to use it as an excuse to attack all religious expression in the public sphere.
The one I have seen today across multiple media platforms is the Freedom of Religion is Freedom from Religion. I just don’t understand that because it does not follow out logically to other rights. Freedom of the Press is not also Freedom from the Press. Freedom of speech is not also Freedom from speech.
 

FurriesRock

Banned
Joined
Jun 19, 2022
Messages
660
Reaction score
216
Location
Texas
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Slightly Liberal
The one I have seen today across multiple media platforms is the Freedom of Religion is Freedom from Religion. I just don’t understand that because it does not follow out logically to other rights. Freedom of the Press is not also Freedom from the Press. Freedom of speech is not also Freedom from speech.
Yep, but freedom FROM speech is becoming a thing, and that's scary.
 

Craig234

DP Veteran
Joined
Apr 22, 2019
Messages
28,326
Reaction score
11,957
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Progressive
I understand the separation of Church and State, but some people want to use it as an excuse to attack all religious expression in the public sphere.

And now, I accuse you of dishonesty.
 
Top Bottom