Another Day, Another Shooting

[blackjack50]

Here's the problem. There is no doubt society would be better off with complete gun control. In a hypothetical world, with no guns, the bad guys always don't have a firearm. In this society, we as a nation need more exercise, so we would teach self defense in public schools. Society is a lot less violent when there are absolutely no guns on the streets.

But in practicality, this will never happen? Why? Because the NRA has mass produced firearms to the point that complete gun control will never happen. They did that intentionally of course.

And do you know what else would make life safer?

A travel ban. Keep people from those areas of the globe from entering our or our allies' borders. It makes sense. There's this ideological thing where we are all equal and we shouldn't discriminate but I hate to break it to you, we are and have been at war. I don't understand this divide at all.

So again, complete gun control is way better. Your "enemy" will never have a gun. But that isn't possible. And keeping people from the middle east from entering our country is a good and safe thing to do.

The most violent times in history existed when there were no guns. You as an average citizen are far safer, as are your rights, in a nation with guns than as a subject in pre firearm dynasty. If there are no guns...you aren't on an even playing field.

 

[matchlight]

I read enough of Heller to know that even Scalia agreed that the right to bear arms as expressed by the 2nd is not unlimited.

And, as to your First Amendment assertion, perhaps if Dumbo the Clown President had not bragged about imposing Muslim Bans during the 6 months he was running for office, this could have been a non-issue. But, the moron you voted for is too stupid to think ahead like that.

Congress has power to exclude any alien, at any time, for any reason it sees fit. And it can delegate some or all of that power to the President, who may then use it to secure the nation against foreign threats. Aliens who have not yet entered U.S. territory have no rights under the Constitution of the U.S.

Of course the right guaranteed by the Second Amendment is not absolute. Justice Scalia was only acknowledging that at the time the amendment was drafted and ratified, it was widely accepted that certain exceptions--some of which he discussed--had been carved out of the individual right to keep and bear arms. Felons and the insane did not have that right even in 1791, for example, nor did the right, even then, extend to bearing concealed firearms or to carrying them into certain sensitive public places.

If you were to read Heller, you would learn that the majority opinion discusses all these things and more. From what I have seen on forums like these, those with the most blind and un-American hostility toward the fundamental, individual right to keep and bear arms usually know the least about it--and don't care to know any more. That is the know-nothing spirit.

 

[Slingshot Bob]

Stopping the manufacturing of firearms IS a gun ban. That would be banning guns manufacturers from producing firearms.

In the 80 or so years of gun control...has it EVER worked? Have you ever considered demanding better and more reasonable treatment of people with anti social personality disorders and other physiological issues? This guy had a criminal record btw. Like I said: warning signs.

Also, not very effective, all you need to make one, is a drill press a grinder and a welder.

 

[Slingshot Bob]

The gun ban people always ignore the fact that gun laws effect only the law abiding, criminals naturally ignore them.

 

[Harshaw]

Facts with biting sarcasm in the op, it's good to get that out there. Why? Because the facts show that biting sarcasm is in order. And, with people, like the poster above, readily willing to dismiss 30,000 gun deaths as "normal," I'm going to have to question whether anyone here even wants to approach discussing this issue in a reasonable manner.

^^^
Laments "discussing this issue in a reasonable manner" while defending his purposeful "biting sarcasm" in broaching the topic.

calamity: "Why can't you be REASONABLE, you #(*#&&*@s?????"

Demonstrates multiple times per day why nothing he says should be taken seriously. Ever.

 

[blackjack50]

Also, not very effective, all you need to make one, is a drill press a grinder and a welder.

They actually have molds and sell guns into the us illegally from the Philippines. Fake serial numbers and all. They use scrap metal and so on.

 

[Slingshot Bob]

They actually have molds and sell guns into the us illegally from the Philippines. Fake serial numbers and all. They use scrap metal and so on.

I have shot some homemade single shot that use nail gun blanks to shoot cast bullets. There are illicit machine shops that churn out submachine gun pistols that fire from an open bolt, not very hard to make, a high school shop kid could do it. The magazine is simply constructed from folded sheet metal and a spring.

 

[calamity]

Why should we bother? You don't want to negotiate. You want total banishment. You don't want to address real problems. You will do back flips to ignore the glaring problems with welfare and education and how the inner city (read as democrat controlled urban sprawl) is FILLED TO THE BRIM with the vast majority of the murder. You don't seem to want to discuss failed drug war policies or how gangs contribute to our violence. You don't care about the anti social personality disorder problem that makes recruiting gangs easy...and causes people to decide human life isn't all that great and go on a shooting spree. Further. You want to blame suicide on guns...which is stupid. South Korea has a terrible suicide problem and a lot less guns. All this information just flies in the face of all the stupid ass logic gun banners want to propose. All this feel good legislation that never real hits the problem (their voting block).

So why should we negotiate? We have guns. You don't.

I think the bold just summed up the problem.

 

[calamity]

You forgot to mention that you want a ban on manufacturing of more guns.

I did not say I "want" it. I said,

First step would be to stop manufacturing more. Otherwise, next up will be 500 million guns floating around.

in response to your question, "how to prevent 300 million guns from floating around?"

 

[Josie]

I did not say I "want" it. I said,



in response to your question, "how to prevent 300 million guns from floating around?"

So you don't want it?

 

[blackjack50]

I think the bold just summed up the problem.

The problem? How is it a problem that we can protect ourselves from miserable tyrants who want to steal rights from others? I'd call that freedom.

 

[JLee1977]

This shooting was brought to Orlando in part by "gun free zones", and the idiot politicians who think those are good ideas. I lost a really good friend to a bad company policy ,which denied is ability to protect his own life while at work. The evening came when a several time, convicted felon walked into the convenience store, and shot him in the face spraying his brains all over the cigarette display case because he was to slow at getting the $60 in cash out of the register. I have been in law enforcement for over ten years now, and cops are rarely in the right place at the right time. Homicidal people do not advertise the date, time, location a hour ahead of time when they are going to start murdering people. Relying on police to come save you, is just plain stupid. I totally understand the desire to end these tragic events, but the path to solving this does not begin with restricting access from the people who are neither inclined or determined to used them against you.

 

[Rucker61]

That the cops waiting hours until going in to kill the perp in Orlando?

 

[Rucker61]

Ah. I see that someone obviously did not read Scalia's opinion in Heller. I suggest you do. You may learn something. He addresses that very issue. Rather well, I might add...almost to the point where I now understand why so many Wingnuts loved the guy. He certainly had a well-tuned legal mind. But, I doubt that is why Wingnuts slobbered over his every word. Chances are most never read even a fraction of his every written word.

"in common use for lawful purposes". What falls outside of that?

 

[RetiredUSN]

Facts with biting sarcasm in the op, it's good to get that out there. Why? Because the facts show that biting sarcasm is in order. And, with people, like the poster above, readily willing to dismiss 30,000 gun deaths as "normal," I'm going to have to question whether anyone here even wants to approach discussing this issue in a reasonable manner.

For example, we can make it harder for people to get guns. We can put restrictions on private sales. We can limit the number of gun shops and require them to have bars on the doors and windows. We can do a lot of things. Will the NRA and their million minions go along with any of it? I doubt it.

Thank god for the NRA if that is what you are proposing.

There already are restrictions on privates sales.

Limit the number of gun shops?

 

[blackjack50]

That the cops waiting hours until going in to kill the perp in Orlando?

There is actually some very valid conjecture that they didn't...and some of the victims were collateral damage. Which I wouldn't fault the officers on. Clean shot in a room packed full of people? idk.

 

[JLee1977]

There is actually some very valid conjecture that they didn't...and some of the victims were collateral damage. Which I wouldn't fault the officers on. Clean shot in a room packed full of people? idk.

Chaotic situation were bullets are flying, and you don't know where the shooter is! Cops are human, cops are not immune to feeling fear, when the human body reaches its personal fear levels motor skills fail, judgment, and reason fail, you cease to be able to do anything. Police have one goal in mind, going home at night! This is why self preservation is your job, not mine! I would rather be fired from a job with a ****ty policy than be dead because of it.

 

[sookster]

The most violent times in history existed when there were no guns. You as an average citizen are far safer, as are your rights, in a nation with guns than as a subject in pre firearm dynasty. If there are no guns...you aren't on an even playing field.

From whom?

 

[Slingshot Bob]

This shooting was brought to Orlando in part by "gun free zones", and the idiot politicians who think those are good ideas. I lost a really good friend to a bad company policy ,which denied is ability to protect his own life while at work. The evening came when a several time, convicted felon walked into the convenience store, and shot him in the face spraying his brains all over the cigarette display case because he was to slow at getting the $60 in cash out of the register. I have been in law enforcement for over ten years now, and cops are rarely in the right place at the right time. Homicidal people do not advertise the date, time, location a hour ahead of time when they are going to start murdering people. Relying on police to come save you, is just plain stupid. I totally understand the desire to end these tragic events, but the path to solving this does not begin with restricting access from the people who are neither inclined or determined to used them against you.

Why carry a gun? It fits in your pocket much easier than a cop!

 

[jaeger19]

Ah, but for some reason, gun rights folks have no issue with banning Muslims in the mistaken belief that doing so will keep us safe. BTW, that's the First Amendment...an even more important one.

Guns kill several 100x more people in the US than Islam. But, you'd never know it by reading RW news.

Wrong.. I am definitely pro second amendment and I have a huge issue with banning muslims on the mistaken belief that it will keep us safe.

Just as I have a huge issue with banning firearms with the mistaken belief that its going to make us safer. Both arguments rely on faulty logic and fearmongering. by the way.. the 2nd amendment is what keeps us having the right to the first.

 

[Lutherf]

That's one of the most misleading posts I've seen on this subject....and that's saying something.

The cops in London eliminated the threat in 8 minutes. At the Pulse the cops may have showed up in 4 minutes but it was HOURS before they eliminated the threat.

Here's some stuff to think about regarding the Pulse incident -
- How many people died as a result of bleeding out or shock? We don't know because no report was ever released.
- How may victims ended up with a cop bullet in them? That assault involved HUNDREDS of rounds and we never got a report on that either.

It wouldn't be difficult at all for 3 guys to stab 50 people inside a crowded nightclub in 4 minutes.

 

[calamity]

Wrong.. I am definitely pro second amendment and I have a huge issue with banning muslims on the mistaken belief that it will keep us safe.

Just as I have a huge issue with banning firearms with the mistaken belief that its going to make us safer. Both arguments rely on faulty logic and fearmongering. by the way.. the 2nd amendment is what keeps us having the right to the first.

You were doing so well, up until that last sentence.

 

[TurtleDude]

And? That's already against the law.

He thinks this works

 

[TurtleDude]

Oh, I don't know. But, having 300 million guns floating around certainly couldn't have helped.

so you don't have any solutions but just feel a need to whine about gun ownership because its a surrogate for Trump winning the election.

 

[TurtleDude]

Meanwhile the firearms death toll continues...but, hey. "Mexicans and Muslims. We need walls and travel bans, but there's no need for sensible gun control."

other than trying to troll gun owners what is your agenda?

there are millions upon millions more guns in circulation now than there were 25 years ago but the gun deaths are going down. At least 80% of gun deaths that are not legally justified or suicides, are caused by people who cannot legally own the guns they use for illegal purposes. and that percentage is probably low since juveniles with records don't count in that mix.