Another Dalton Minimum?

[Gill]

What are you trying to prove with your miniscule sample? That microcycles exist inside of macrocycles?

Very simple. I claim the global temperature has been dropping since at least 2002 and Middleground claims that it's not.

The graphs clearly show that it is dropping.

Understand?

 

[Middleground]

But the 2004 graph shows even more cooling doesn't it?

Since I'm claiming the temperature has been dropping for the past 6 years, why would I show a graph with a starting date before that??? There would be no relevance.

You are not making any sense.

LOL. 2005 was the second hottest year on record. Acually, now NASA says it's on par with 1998. See the deception trend, Gill?

And IT is right, BTW. It's a shot sample.... who cares?

Take a look at a graph from 1980 and tell me if you see a cooling trend.

 

[Thorgasm]

Very simple. I claim the global temperature has been dropping since at least 2002 and Middleground claims that it's not.

The graphs clearly show that it is dropping.

Understand?

I see. Doesn't this happen all the time?

 

[Middleground]

You might as well give up. You can't refute FACTS. You try to dance all around it, but the fact remains that the globe has been cooling for the past 6+ years. You've posted absolutely nothing to dispute it. You haven't showed one single graph from Hadley of temps from the past 6 years that shows an increase.I can't fathom why you think the "hottest years" has anything to do with the trend.

I'll try and make it simple for you:

A basketball player averages 15 points per game, and their highest game ever was 20 ppg. For 5 straight games they score 27, 26, 25, 24, and 23 ppg. Even though they have scored higher than they ever have in each of the five games, their points per game is dropping over the five game stretch.

Is that simple enough for you????

Dumbest analogy ever. :doh

If you cannot fathom that the planet is indeed warming by the simple fact that hottest years have occurred within the last 30, then I'm afraid you're a lost cause. Here let me show you this graph. I'm sure the colours will help you understand:

From Hadley:

 

[Gill]

LOL. 2005 was the second hottest year on record. Acually, now NASA says it's on par with 1998. See the deception trend, Gill?

And IT is right, BTW. It's a shot sample.... who cares?

Take a look at a graph from 1980 and tell me if you see a cooling trend.

Have I claimed that 1980 had a cooling trend???

Why can't you address my claim instead of going off on all these tangents???

I'll make it simple: Has the global temperature trend dropped since 2002??

It's really very simple, but you twist yourself into contortions trying to avoid the question.

 

[Gill]

Dumbest analogy ever. :doh

If you cannot fathom that the planet is indeed warming by the simple fact that hottest years have occurred within the last 30, then I'm afraid you're a lost cause. Here let me show you this graph. I'm sure the colours will help you understand:

From Hadley:

Does your graph show global temperature from 2002 to the present??

Then it is not relevant is it?

 

[thenaturalist]

But the 2004 graph shows even more cooling doesn't it?

Since I'm claiming the temperature has been dropping for the past 6 years, why would I show a graph with a starting date before that??? There would be no relevance.

You are not making any sense.

Dropping for six years!? As I think I pointed out before, you can clearly see that there is no apparent drop up through 2006 (there's only ups and downs and maybe even an upward trend), so the assertion of temperature dropping for six years is flat out wrong. Perhaps there was a cool year recently though or a one or two year downward trend which is pretty much meaningless in terms of the long term global warming that is happening. Any recent "cool" weather should really be compared to what temperatures have been over the last 100 years and more.

 

[Gill]

I see. Doesn't this happen all the time?

I'm not aware of a 6+ year cooling trend since before 1980.

 

[Middleground]

Very simple. I claim the global temperature has been dropping since at least 2002 and Middleground claims that it's not.

The graphs clearly show that it is dropping.

Understand?

You have claimed a cooling trend for 10 years. That is extremely deceptive.

 

[Gill]

Dropping for six years!? As I think I pointed out before, you can clearly see that there is no apparent drop up through 2006 (there's only ups and downs and maybe even an upward trend), so the assertion of temperature dropping for six years is flat out wrong. Perhaps there was a cool year recently though or a one or two year downward trend which is pretty much meaningless in terms of the long term global warming that is happening. Any recent "cool" weather should really be compared to what temperatures have been over the last 100 years and more.

Do you know what a trend line is??

Hint: It's the two dash lines.

 

[Middleground]

Does your graph show global temperature from 2002 to the present??

Then it is not relevant is it?

Why is that important or relevant? Why not look at the bigger picture? See cooling there???

 

[Gill]

Why is that important or relevant? Why not look at the bigger picture? See cooling there???

Maybe because that is what I'm claiming to be true???? :roll:

And, you are claiming is false.

Since you think it is false, it's up to you to prove wrong, although I've shown ample proof that I'm right.

 

[thenaturalist]

Do you know what a trend line is??

Hint: It's the two dash lines.

Yes I do know what a trend line is, and I know you're ignoring my statements that have pretty much invalidated your "trend". The trend line you show is from 2002-2008, but I pointed out that it's really only caused by a cool point in 2007, and the whole thing is invalid because not all of 2008 is included. If you put a trend line on 2002-2006 I'm sure you'd see no decrease and maybe even an increase.

Even given the invalid trend lines, a downward trend does not mean temperature was decreasing for all those years. You can clearly see the temperature only had a large drop from which it has not yet returned in 2007-early 2008.

 

[Middleground]

Gill, in your opening post, you wrote:

Originally Posted by Gill

It's interesting that they claim the transition started in 2000 as this is when a noticeable cooling of the Earth started.

That is false.

 

[Renae]

Guys, here is the problem.

MG is running off on the "hottest year" thing because, by the criteria set by those pushing those numbers. They are right. Wait, let's not argue here.

However, conversely, the data Gill (and I back of course) is that the cold months globally have been COLDER then the warm months.

So yes, MG, you are right, there have been more record hot days in those months.

And yes, the average global temp is cooling. It's NOT THAT HARD TO UNDERSTAND.

 

[Gill]

Yes I do know what a trend line is, and I know you're ignoring my statements that have pretty much invalidated your "trend". The trend line you show is from 2002-2008, but I pointed out that it's really only caused by a cool point in 2007, and the whole thing is invalid because not all of 2008 is included. If you put a trend line on 2002-2006 I'm sure you'd see no decrease and maybe even an increase.

Even given the invalid trend lines, a downward trend does not mean temperature was decreasing for all those years. You can clearly see the temperature only had a large drop from which it has not yet returned in 2007-early 2008.

Obviously you don't know what a statistical trend is. It doesn't matter if there were cooler or hotter data within the trend. The purpose of a trend line is to show the overall direction of the data.

and... a downward trend DOES mean the temperature is decreasing for all those years. That is the very definition of a trend .

 

[thenaturalist]

Obviously you don't know what a statistical trend is. It doesn't matter if there were cooler or hotter data within the trend. The purpose of a trend line is to show the overall direction of the data.

and... a downward trend DOES mean the temperature is decreasing for all those years. That is the very definition of a trend .

Wrong Gill. It mean that ON AVERAGE the temp was decreasing, but it doesn't have to be decreasing every single year.

 

[Gill]

Wrong Gill. It mean that ON AVERAGE the temp was decreasing, but it doesn't have to be decreasing every single year.

Where did I claim it had to be decreasing each and every year??

It doesn't matter if there were cooler or hotter data within the trend. The purpose of a trend line is to show the overall direction of the data.

and thanks for admitting that you were wrong about the downward trend.