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Anonymous vs. vigilantism

WI Crippler

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I was reading on MSNBC about the hacker group going after a Marine who was found guilty of involuntary manslaughter in Iraq, and in the article they also went after the Boston PD after some alleged police brutality at a Occupy protest.

So I thought it would be interesting to see how people felt about this particular sort of internet vigilantism, and how they might feel it differs from someone on the street taking "justice" into their own hands.

In both cases people feel they aren't properly responded to, or the system has let someone off the hook, and they take matters into their own hands. I think its interesting that there are probably many here who would think its ok for Anon to do what they do, but would chastise someone for taking justice into their own hands by beating a pedophile into the dirt, and conversely people who would think that anonymous is in the wrong here, but if you see a person double park you have the right as a citizen to pound their face into the pavement.

Just want to see what peoples thoughts are on this cyber version of vigilantism.
 

Republic Now!

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I think if someone is presently wronging you, or is committing a victimizing crime around you, and you have the ability to stop it, the means of which depending on the severity of the crime, then one is certainly in the right to intervene. If someone commits a crime like raping a little girl and you later go and track the guy down because of it, after the fact, then I think it was excessive and he deserves the benefit of whatever court system the government has in place.

As per "internet vigilantism", clearly the latter would apply.
 

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I was reading on MSNBC about the hacker group going after a Marine who was found guilty of involuntary manslaughter in Iraq, and in the article they also went after the Boston PD after some alleged police brutality at a Occupy protest.

So I thought it would be interesting to see how people felt about this particular sort of internet vigilantism, and how they might feel it differs from someone on the street taking "justice" into their own hands.

In both cases people feel they aren't properly responded to, or the system has let someone off the hook, and they take matters into their own hands. I think its interesting that there are probably many here who would think its ok for Anon to do what they do, but would chastise someone for taking justice into their own hands by beating a pedophile into the dirt, and conversely people who would think that anonymous is in the wrong here, but if you see a person double park you have the right as a citizen to pound their face into the pavement.

Just want to see what peoples thoughts are on this cyber version of vigilantism.

When I think too hard about where this might go, it gets very troubling. Example: a man is accused of sexual abuse of a minor. He's arrested. His name goes on the police blotter and the next thing one knows, his life is ruined. His family's life is ruined. Without a trial. A copper shoots a minor. Investigation under way. His life is threatened....maybe he's even assassinated. I'm guessing we may have to re-think "the public's right to know." And start vigorously enforcing harrassment laws...maybe even put some new ones on the books to address this particular issue. Internet stalking...inciting to commit violence...whatever. Things could get very dangerous. And maybe someday "they'll come for you."
 

Republic Now!

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When I think too hard about where this might go, it gets very troubling. Example: a man is accused of sexual abuse of a minor. He's arrested. His name goes on the police blotter and the next thing one knows, his life is ruined. His family's life is ruined. Without a trial. A copper shoots a minor. Investigation under way. His life is threatened....maybe he's even assassinated. I'm guessing we may have to re-think "the public's right to know." And start vigorously enforcing harrassment laws...maybe even put some new ones on the books to address this particular issue. Internet stalking...inciting to commit violence...whatever. Things could get very dangerous. And maybe someday "they'll come for you."

This is why our system of justice is important. It gives an accused the opportunity to defend their innocence, as opposed to someone in a heat of passion moment.
 

rathi

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I see this as more of a change in power dynamics than anything else. On the internet, a few motivated individuals can actually match the power of large organizations. Anonymous are willing to break the law and hurt people, but so are the groups they tend to go after. In a perfect world neither would exist, but we probably are going to have accept both. Sometimes cyber vigilantes will expose the wrongdoing of the powers that be, other times they will cause damage and accomplish nothing. I'll save my moral judgements for the specific circumstances rather than blanket statements.
 

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I see this as more of a change in power dynamics than anything else. On the internet, a few motivated individuals can actually match the power of large organizations. Anonymous are willing to break the law and hurt people, but so are the groups they tend to go after. In a perfect world neither would exist, but we probably are going to have accept both. Sometimes cyber vigilantes will expose the wrongdoing of the powers that be, other times they will cause damage and accomplish nothing. I'll save my moral judgements for the specific circumstances rather than blanket statements.

This.


Are there some things that Anonymous has done in the past that I think are fairly deplorable? You bet. But are there some others things they have done that has exacted more justice than the Freedom of Information act could do in 100 years? Likely, in my opinion.
 

FreedomFromAll

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I see this as more of a change in power dynamics than anything else. On the internet, a few motivated individuals can actually match the power of large organizations. Anonymous are willing to break the law and hurt people, but so are the groups they tend to go after. In a perfect world neither would exist, but we probably are going to have accept both. Sometimes cyber vigilantes will expose the wrongdoing of the powers that be, other times they will cause damage and accomplish nothing. I'll save my moral judgements for the specific circumstances rather than blanket statements.
We do not need to accept Anon. Anon is not invincible. Anon will become more than a nuisance as they slowly get braver. But they can only do so much before they get busted one by one as they have been getting busted.
 

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I see this as more of a change in power dynamics than anything else. On the internet, a few motivated individuals can actually match the power of large organizations. Anonymous are willing to break the law and hurt people, but so are the groups they tend to go after. In a perfect world neither would exist, but we probably are going to have accept both. Sometimes cyber vigilantes will expose the wrongdoing of the powers that be, other times they will cause damage and accomplish nothing. I'll save my moral judgements for the specific circumstances rather than blanket statements.

So then you feel that it would be ok if someone individually thought they should extract some sort of physical justice against an individual who they feel " got away with it" with regards to punishment not fitting the crime?
 

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What conglomerates and the government are doing to the internet affects everyone, and they are not responding to the will of the people. SOPA might not have passed but very similar adjacent bills did. Freedom of information is having a noose put around its neck and the very people who are supposed to be protecting us from this kind of statism are either turning a blind eye or wilfully partaking in it.

Unlike beating a pedophile into the dirt, which would involve one case and one revenge, Anonymous is attacking the perpetrators of the largest unanswered crimes of our time. They have my moral support. The largest organizations that actually call the shots over government need to be shown that they are not invulnerable and cannot simply do what they want.

Groups like Anonymous appear because public justice is woefully lacking. Maybe when our government starts to actually represent the people again, we will see less vigilantism.
 

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WI Crippler said:
So I thought it would be interesting to see how people felt about this particular sort of internet vigilantism, and how they might feel it differs from someone on the street taking "justice" into their own hands.

The former example is nonviolent while the latter suggests violence. Nobody has the right to initiate violence against any other person. Self-defense is the only morally justifiable position of violent action.
 

FreedomFromAll

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What conglomerates and the government are doing to the internet affects everyone, and they are not responding to the will of the people. SOPA might not have passed but very similar adjacent bills did. Freedom of information is having a noose put around its neck and the very people who are supposed to be protecting us from this kind of statism are either turning a blind eye or wilfully partaking in it.

Unlike beating a pedophile into the dirt, which would involve one case and one revenge, Anonymous is attacking the perpetrators of the largest unanswered crimes of our time. They have my moral support. The largest organizations that actually call the shots over government need to be shown that they are not invulnerable and cannot simply do what they want.

Groups like Anonymous appear because public justice is woefully lacking. Maybe when our government starts to actually represent the people again, we will see less vigilantism.

Anon is running a propaganda campaign. They are along with the rest of the occupy movement trying to convince Americans to turn against our government. We do not need a secret society to do anything for us. Anon is just a private version of the secret police. They refuse to sign their John Hancock

They are cowards fighting a cowards war against Americans. I really dont even believe that they are Americans in the first place. Even if they have citizenship they are no American that I know of. I say they are bull**** treasonists with only their personal gain on their minds. They are little cowards and deserve to be pistol whipped. **** them and the yellow horse they rode in on.
 
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LaughAtTheWorld

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Anon is running a propaganda campaign. They are along with the rest of the occupy movement trying to convince Americans to turn against our government. We do not need a secret society to do anything for us. Anon is just a private version of the secret police. They refuse to sign their John Hancock

They are cowards fighting a cowards war against Americans. I really dont even believe that they are Americans in the first place. Even if they have citizenship they are no American that I know of. I say they are bull**** treasonists with only their personal gain on their minds. They are little cowards and deserve to be pistol whipped. **** them and the yellow horse they rode in on.

Given their hacking abilities, I would suggest most of them are in their teens, full of idiocy about how their stupidity in hacking will change the world for the better, blah blah blah.
Their style of hacking resembles a caveman's tools today. For God's sakes, even the North Korean cyber terror unit which has been operational only for about 3 years or so hacks better than them
 

rathi

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So then you feel that it would be ok if someone individually thought they should extract some sort of physical justice against an individual who they feel " got away with it" with regards to punishment not fitting the crime?

Not the same thing. Pointless acts of revenge, whether they be physical violence or defacing a website, are not something I would ever condone. Illegally obtaining records of unethical activity and exposing it has some merit. In any case, such individuals have broken the law and should be arrested if they are caught. Doing the right thing doesn't enure you from the consequences of your actions.
 

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rathi said:
Illegally obtaining records of unethical activity and exposing it has some merit. In any case, such individuals have broken the law and should be arrested if they are caught. Doing the right thing doesn't enure you from the consequences of your actions.

So whistleblowers who expose illegal activities through illegal means should be thrown in jail next to the original wrongdoers? I assume you are against the methods and purpose of Wikileaks? Isn't this somewhat akin to self defense?
 

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So whistleblowers who expose illegal activities through illegal means should be thrown in jail next to the original wrongdoers? I assume you are against the methods and purpose of Wikileaks? Isn't this somewhat akin to self defense?

They take matters into their own hands. There is a time and place for whistleblowing. Someone enacting their own personal form of justice is what is wrong. I mean if they can do this, why can I not go take a baseball bat to the side of the head, knees, elbows, and private parts of someone I know for a fact stalked, raped, harrased, and attempted to murder a friend of mine? He isn't in jail, yet. I find that wrong.
 

rathi

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So whistleblowers who expose illegal activities through illegal means should be thrown in jail next to the original wrongdoers? I assume you are against the methods and purpose of Wikileaks? Isn't this somewhat akin to self defense?

Obtaining files through hacking is not the same thing as whistle blowing.
 

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stonewall50 said:
They take matters into their own hands. ... I mean if they can do this, why can I not go take a baseball bat to the side of the head, knees, elbows, and private parts of someone ...

Because your actions would be violent and cause personal injury to another person while simply releasing information about someone's wrongdoing does no direct physical injury. Furthermore, any non-physical injury sustained as a result could arguably rest on the shoulders of the wrongdoer.

rathi said:
Obtaining files through hacking is not the same thing as whistle blowing.

Why not?
 

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Because your actions would be violent and cause personal injury to another person while simply releasing information about someone's wrongdoing does no direct physical injury. Furthermore, any non-physical injury sustained as a result could arguably rest on the shoulders of the wrongdoer.?

What if I put out information about a man who was POTENTIALLY a rapist? And then someone decided to give him "what he had coming?" Information is power, and false information can destroy a man. It can also result in VERY physical reprocussions. We have a judicial system that should be used. Let's just put it this way: if I were to have the ability to release the whereabouts of every Anon member, do you think that their actions would go unpunished?

Not to mention the trial of that Marine? Is Anon active in combat somewhere? Do they know exactly how things went down? I mean there are things like reasonable doubt for a reason, and Anon does not act upon reasonable doubt. They just convict people regardless of what a court of LAW may uphold.

My big thing is that they support the Occupy movement, they called America an Imperialist(the PROPER term is Capitalist...we do not have an Empire) nation which is a huge flag to anyone who actually holds a valid political opinion on world politics, and they are vigilantes. Their particular brand of retribution may not be violent, but it is wrong nonetheless.

Do I think that all they have done is bad? No. Didnt they assist in Arab spring or something? I mean there are some things that they have done good for, but any organization that cannot opperate with their faces in the open should not be trusted. They are corruptable as any human is.
 

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I would like to add that they are wasting government time and money. They claim to be an organization for the betterment of the people, but they appear to be only anti-establishment. Do they have any structure at all? As I said, they cannot be trusted. They are vigilantes, and vigilantism is wrong because the potential it has to simply become a witch hunt.
 

rathi

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Should someone be able to get away with breaking into your house if they find a joint inside? A whistleblower reports illegal activity when they see it. Hackers illegally obtain access to files, which may or may not happen to contain any evidence of wrongdoing.
 

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I was reading on MSNBC about the hacker group going after a Marine who was found guilty of involuntary manslaughter in Iraq, and in the article they also went after the Boston PD after some alleged police brutality at a Occupy protest.

So I thought it would be interesting to see how people felt about this particular sort of internet vigilantism, and how they might feel it differs from someone on the street taking "justice" into their own hands.

In both cases people feel they aren't properly responded to, or the system has let someone off the hook, and they take matters into their own hands. I think its interesting that there are probably many here who would think its ok for Anon to do what they do, but would chastise someone for taking justice into their own hands by beating a pedophile into the dirt, and conversely people who would think that anonymous is in the wrong here, but if you see a person double park you have the right as a citizen to pound their face into the pavement.

Just want to see what peoples thoughts are on this cyber version of vigilantism.

What Anonymous released was justified. They proved that people were innocently slain and that the General only got away with only a "pay cut." Though I do not understand though why they harass the government, that is just stupid on their part.
 

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I was reading on MSNBC about the hacker group going after a Marine who was found guilty of involuntary manslaughter in Iraq, and in the article they also went after the Boston PD after some alleged police brutality at a Occupy protest.

So I thought it would be interesting to see how people felt about this particular sort of internet vigilantism, and how they might feel it differs from someone on the street taking "justice" into their own hands.

In both cases people feel they aren't properly responded to, or the system has let someone off the hook, and they take matters into their own hands. I think its interesting that there are probably many here who would think its ok for Anon to do what they do, but would chastise someone for taking justice into their own hands by beating a pedophile into the dirt, and conversely people who would think that anonymous is in the wrong here, but if you see a person double park you have the right as a citizen to pound their face into the pavement.

Just want to see what peoples thoughts are on this cyber version of vigilantism.
Anonymous jsut looks for excuses to be dicks, they are on a power trip. One day, they'll get caught, they'll go to prison, and the only ones that hear them scream will be their new "cell mates".
 

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Anonymous jsut looks for excuses to be dicks, they are on a power trip. One day, they'll get caught, they'll go to prison, and the only ones that hear them scream will be their new "cell mates".

You do realise it's virtually impossible to bring down anonymous as the point is they're anonymous (largely) they probably have more members then all the drug cartels in the world combined, they have members that are better computer experts then most of the top law enforcement agencies have at their disposal and they exist on every corner of the globe.

Tell me Vicchio, how do you plan to get them "caught".
 

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The former example is nonviolent while the latter suggests violence. Nobody has the right to initiate violence against any other person. Self-defense is the only morally justifiable position of violent action.

I don't understand? nature itself says that violence is acceptable in many situations. Food, territory, mating rights, removal of the weak and crippled from the herd? According to nature, violence is all sorts of justified.
 

LaughAtTheWorld

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You do realise it's virtually impossible to bring down anonymous as the point is they're anonymous (largely) they probably have more members then all the drug cartels in the world combined, they have members that are better computer experts then most of the top law enforcement agencies have at their disposal and they exist on every corner of the globe.

Tell me Vicchio, how do you plan to get them "caught".

I highly doubt what you're saying. I found Anonymous's hacking techniques to be quite primitive. Their DDos attacks are less sophisticated than the North Korean cyber warfare's DDos attacks, which was created only 3 years ago.
I stand firmly by my belief that they're nothing but teenage punks who have too much time at their mother's basement
 
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