Annual Interest on Debt Surpasses $1 Trillion

[cpwill]

Hooray, Fun New Roadmark

Back in 2021, when we were noting that Interest on the debt had risen from $325 Billion in 2018 to half a trillion, I asked:

Hey out of curiosity, what happens when our interest rates return to historic norms?

Current rate on a 10 year Treasury is 4.08%.

The Biden administration rang up a budget deficit topping $1.8 trillion in fiscal 2024, up more than 8% from the previous year and the third highest on record, the Treasury Department said Friday...

One aggravating factor for the debt and deficit picture has been high interest rates from the Federal Reserve's series of hikes to fight inflation.

Interest expense for the year totaled $1.16 trillion, the first time that figure has topped the trillion-dollar level. Net of interest earned on the government's investments, the total was a record $882 billion, the third-largest outlay in the budget, outstripping all other items except Social Security and health care...

As a share of the total U.S. economy, the deficit is running above 6%, unusual historically during an expansion and well above the 3.7% historical average over the past 50 years, according to the Congressional Budget Office....​

 

[SNOWFLAKE]

Donald Trump Built a National Debt So Big (Even Before the Pandemic) That It’ll Weigh Down the Economy for Years

The “King of Debt” promised to reduce the national debt — then his tax cuts made it surge. Add in the pandemic, and he oversaw the third-biggest deficit increase of any president.

www.propublica.org

https://www.newsnationnow.com/politics/which-presidents-added-most-national-debt/

https://www.axios.com/2024/06/24/trump-biden-debt-deficits-election

Trump and Biden: The National Debt | Committee for a Responsible Federal Budget

The national debt is on course to reach a record share of the economy under the next presidential administration, due in part to policies approved by Presidents Trump and Biden during their ti

www.crfb.org

 

[Individual]

And no one is willing to discuss how to resolve the issue permanently, which is something I've been trying to find at least one other who is willing to put forth the effort required to ensure nothing is overlooked.

 

[cpwill]

And no one is willing to discuss how to resolve the issue permanently, which is something I've been trying to find at least one other who is willing to put forth the effort required to ensure nothing is overlooked.

We can dive into specifics, but, broadly, it'd be:

• Reform the entitlements to decrease expenditures (sucks, and, necessary).
• Reduce Defense spending (sucks, and, necessary).
• Increase taxes broadly (sucks, and, necessary).
• (once past the threat of crisis) Shift Americans from a pay-go old age system to one based on lifetime savings and returns (hard, but, beneficial).

 

[brianpatrick]

We can dive into specifics, but, broadly, it'd be:

• Reform the entitlements to decrease expenditures (sucks, and, necessary).
• Reduce Defense spending (sucks, and, necessary).
• Increase taxes broadly (sucks, and, necessary).
• (once past the threat of crisis) Shift Americans from a pay-go old age system to one based on lifetime savings and returns (hard, but, beneficial).

Or we could farm out all the work to AI and technology and pay everyone for just being human. The concept of “freeloader” goes away when everyone is one.

 

[Individual]

We can dive into specifics, but, broadly, it'd be:

• Reform the entitlements to decrease expenditures (sucks, and, necessary).
• Reduce Defense spending (sucks, and, necessary).
• Increase taxes broadly (sucks, and, necessary).
• (once past the threat of crisis) Shift Americans from a pay-go old age system to one based on lifetime savings and returns (hard, but, beneficial).

I'd start with the Federal individual income tax code.

 

[Individual]

Or we could farm out all the work to AI and technology and pay everyone for just being human. The concept of “freeloader” goes away when everyone is one.

Why would anyone need to be paid, if the labor has no cost?

 

[post]

We can dive into specifics, but, broadly, it'd be:

• Reform the entitlements to decrease expenditures (sucks, and, necessary).
• Reduce Defense spending (sucks, and, necessary).
• Increase taxes broadly (sucks, and, necessary).
• (once past the threat of crisis) Shift Americans from a pay-go old age system to one based on lifetime savings and returns (hard, but, beneficial).

Ridiculous on its face, considering the wealthiest ten percent, 34 million, possess $109 trillion and the bottom half, 170 million. possess $4 trillion.

https://www.cbpp.org/charts/wealthiest-10-percent-of-white-households-own-most-us-wealth-0

 

[Individual]

Ridiculous on its face, considering the wealthiest ten percent, 34 million, possess $109 trillion and the bottom half, 170 million. possess $4 trillion.

https://www.cbpp.org/charts/wealthiest-10-percent-of-white-households-own-most-us-wealth-0

And we continue to have deficit budgets rather than fix the tax code to result in a balanced budget.
The rich get richer while everyone else has to deal with a perpetual growing cost of living.
Maybe it's time we began a discussion on HOW to fix this permanently.

 

[Loulit01]

First, we repeal Trump's tax cuts to corporations and the wealthy. Then we outlaw dummy corporations and holding companies. Then, we overhaul the tax code...

According to the Public Law 117-154(06/23/2022), the U.S. Tax Code is 6,871 pages. When you include the federal tax regulations and the official tax guidance, the number of pages raises to approximately 75,000. This will take an average reader about 14 weeks to finish.

This is insanity. The only people this benefits are those who can afford huge firms of tax attorneys and huge firms of tax attorneys.

 

[Bok Tuklo]

We had this sorted in 2000.

Another thing ****ed up by Republicans.

 

[bongsaway]

Hooray, Fun New Roadmark

Back in 2021, when we were noting that Interest on the debt had risen from $325 Billion in 2018 to half a trillion, I asked:



Current rate on a 10 year Treasury is 4.08%.

The Biden administration rang up a budget deficit topping $1.8 trillion in fiscal 2024, up more than 8% from the previous year and the third highest on record, the Treasury Department said Friday...​

​

One aggravating factor for the debt and deficit picture has been high interest rates from the Federal Reserve's series of hikes to fight inflation.​

​

Interest expense for the year totaled $1.16 trillion, the first time that figure has topped the trillion-dollar level. Net of interest earned on the government's investments, the total was a record $882 billion, the third-largest outlay in the budget, outstripping all other items except Social Security and health care...​

​

As a share of the total U.S. economy, the deficit is running above 6%, unusual historically during an expansion and well above the 3.7% historical average over the past 50 years, according to the Congressional Budget Office....​

Tell us if you will, why are Republicans only concerned about the debt when democrats control the white house?

 

[NatMorton]

I’d need to dig up the post where I did the math, but as of a few years ago all we needed to do was freeze federal spending and historical tax revenue growth would erase the annual deficit with 6 or 7 years. Retiring the debt would take a decade or two from there.

The problem is, of course, neither party is interested in managing the budget. They’re too busy bribing us with our own money.

 

[Bok Tuklo]

I’d need to dig up the post where I did the math, but as of a few years ago all we needed to do was freeze federal spending and historical tax revenue growth would erase the annual deficit with 6 or 7 years. Retiring the debt would take a decade or two from there.

The problem is, of course, neither party is interested in managing the budget. They’re too busy bribing us with our own money.

1993 proved that false.

 

[NatMorton]

1993 proved that false.

No, it didn’t. The dot-com bubble merely generated tax revenue faster than Congress could spend it.

 

[Bok Tuklo]

No, it didn’t. The dot-com bubble merely generated tax revenue faster than Congress could spend it.

The shit you people tell yourselves.

 

[NatMorton]

The shit you people tell yourselves.

Go look at the data (for a change.)

 

[NatMorton]

One of the great lies about how to address the debt is the assertion that we need to raise taxes. I’d have to dig up the link for this, but back in the 70’s the University of Ohio ran a study on tax increases and spending. The study was refreshed again in the 90s with the same results. It examined federal spending patterns in the years after a significant tax increase. Depending on how wide of a window you used after the tax increase, federal spending (again, from memory) increased between $1.20 and $1.70 for every dollar of new tax revenue generated from the higher tax rates; i..e, more revenue generates still more spending.

If history is a guide, we every reason to believe increasing taxes will only increase the size of the debt.

 

[Bok Tuklo]

One of the great lies about how to address the debt is the assertion that we need to raise taxes. I’d have to dig up the link for this, but back in the 70’s the University of Ohio ran a study on tax increases and spending. The study was refreshed again in the 90s with the same results. It examined federal spending patterns in the years after a significant tax increase. Depending on how wide of a window you used after the tax increase, federal spending (again, from memory) increased between $1.20 and $1.70 for every dollar of new tax revenue generated from the higher tax rates; i..e, more revenue generates still more spending.

If history is a guide, we every reason to believe increasing taxes will only increase the size of the debt.

The shit you people tell yourselves.

 

[aociswundumho]

And no one is willing to discuss how to resolve the issue permanently,

They don't want to talk about it. Both Trump and Harris are going to spend huge. They will both be out of politics by the time the shit hits the fan.

We're pass the point where this can be fixed. You'd have to raise taxes about 40% just to cover the deficit, never mind the debt. As far as huge spending cuts, forget it, it's not happening.

The only politically possible way out is the printing press, and when they start printing trillion after trillion, remember that it's the fed's job to "fight inflation".

 

[NatMorton]

Take a look at annual federal revenue growth since the 1960s:

U.S. Federal Government Tax Revenue

The federal government generates tax revenue through sources like income and corporate taxes. Learn how much tax revenue the U.S. generates each year.

www.thebalancemoney.com

If you do the math, you find that the average annual growth rate of federal tax revenue has been just under 6% per year. There isn't a CEO on the planet that would not give his or her eye teeth for revenue performance like that. Think of your own personal finances. Does your income increase by 6% every year?

We don't have a revenue problem. We have a spending problem.

 

[Mach]

One of the great lies about how to address the debt is the assertion that we need to raise taxes.

Go look at the data (for a change.)

Which data says you can't pay down debt with additional tax revenue? (none)
Who claims taxes alone are the solution? (no one?)

 

[NatMorton]

Which data says you can't pay down debt with additional tax revenue? (none)
Who claims taxes alone are the solution? (no one?)

It's not a question of can't. Of course that's feasible. The question, should we give Congress more tax revenue, is will they use it to pay down the debt or will it be used for still more spending?

So, can you give me one good reason why I should believe higher tax rates will lead to debt reduction?

 

[Mach]

It's not a question of can't. Of course that's feasible.

So it's not a lie. Who didn't hold them to account? Voters. Put the blame where it's due.
Voters elect these people, and by in large, they answer to NO ONE once elected. You get this right? With great power comes great responsibility. That's why you put shitheels like Ted Cruz there, and MTG...Jim Jordan, and the like.

The question, should we give Congress more tax revenue, is will they use it to pay down the debt or will it be used for still more spending?

If only we could put good people into office, who are reasonable and can solve problems.
You really think MAGA, Reagan, or GWB were those people? Jim Jordan, Comer, MTG, Boebert? Mitch?
Remember when GHB raised taxes because it seemed it was necessary? What did Conservatives do as a result?

You want to think Republicans aren't the problem, but as priorities go, they are issue #1. Remember how pro-business Bill Clinton was under Alan Greenspan?

So, can you give me one good reason why I should believe higher tax rates will lead to debt reduction?

Higher taxes on the wealthy are needed for a wide range of reasons. Tax revenue is certainly one of them.

Which party will take the lump of harming our economic growth to pay down debt? Those ****ers wouldn't even impeach a crook who tried to steal the election, you think they will take one for the team?
You think the voting public can focus on real issues and real solutions, when they are frighted of illegals eating cats and other horseshit?

No, Republicans will ensure it becomes a crisis, rather than prevention. Just like climate denial, just like attacks on thing like government trying to stop smoking, etc., etc.
Obesity an epidemic, let's limit soda? Wagh, all Democrats want is control!!

Stupid is gonna sink the ship at some point.

 

[NatMorton]

So it's not a lie. Who didn't hold them to account? Voters. Put the blame where it's due.
Voters elect these people, and by in large, they answer to NO ONE once elected. You get this right? With great power comes great responsibility. That's why you put shitheels like Ted Cruz there, and MTG...Jim Jordan, and the like.

It's a lie from those who advocate tax increases to address the debt.

From the Harris campaign website:

Unlike Donald Trump, Vice President Harris and Governor Walz are committed to ensuring no one earning less than $400,000 a year will pay more in taxes. They believe that we need to chart a New Way Forward by both making our tax system fairer and prioritizing investment and innovation. They will ensure the wealthiest Americans and the largest corporations pay their fair share, so we can take action to build up the middle class while reducing the deficit.

Source: https://kamalaharris.com/issues/

They claim they will reduce the debt by increasing taxes on the wealthy. That is, IMO, a lie. They have absolutely no intention of using the money in that way.

If only we could put good people into office, who are reasonable and can solve problems.
You really think MAGA, Reagan, or GWB were those people? Jim Jordan, Comer, MTG, Boebert? Mitch?
Remember when GHB raised taxes because it seemed it was necessary? What did Conservatives do as a result?

You want to think Republicans aren't the problem, but as priorities go, they are issue #1. Remember how pro-business Bill Clinton was under Alan Greenspan?

Higher taxes on the wealthy are needed for a wide range of reasons. Tax revenue is certainly one of them.

Which party will take the lump of harming our economic growth to pay down debt? Those ****ers wouldn't even impeach a crook who tried to steal the election, you think they will take one for the team?
You think the voting public can focus on real issues and real solutions, when they are frighted of illegals eating cats and other horseshit?

No, Republicans will ensure it becomes a crisis, rather than prevention. Just like climate denial, just like attacks on thing like government trying to stop smoking, etc., etc.
Obesity an epidemic, let's limit soda? Wagh, all Democrats want is control!!

Stupid is gonna sink the ship at some point.

You'll get no argument from me voters need to wake up and start using their heads.