Animal liberation (1 Viewer)

[Chainsawmassacre]

Interesting book from the 70s that’s still relevant today. Food for thought no pun intended.



"If the recommendations made in the following chapters are accepted, millions of animals will be spared considerable pain. Moreover, millions of humans will benefit too. As I write, people are starving to death in many parts of the world, and many more are in imminent danger of starvation. The United States government has said that because of poor harvests and diminished stocks of grain it can provide only limited—and inadequate—assistance; but the heavy emphasis in affluent nations on rearing animals for food wastes several times as much food as it produces. By ceasing to rear and kill animals for food, we can make so much extra food available for humans that, properly distributed, it would eliminate starvation and malnutrition from this planet. Animal liberation is human liberation, too."

Animal Liberation

The Book That Started A RevolutionSince its original pu…

www.goodreads.com

 

[Glitch]

Interesting book from the 70s that’s still relevant today. Food for thought no pun intended.



"If the recommendations made in the following chapters are accepted, millions of animals will be spared considerable pain. Moreover, millions of humans will benefit too. As I write, people are starving to death in many parts of the world, and many more are in imminent danger of starvation. The United States government has said that because of poor harvests and diminished stocks of grain it can provide only limited—and inadequate—assistance; but the heavy emphasis in affluent nations on rearing animals for food wastes several times as much food as it produces. By ceasing to rear and kill animals for food, we can make so much extra food available for humans that, properly distributed, it would eliminate starvation and malnutrition from this planet. Animal liberation is human liberation, too."

Animal Liberation

The Book That Started A RevolutionSince its original pu…

www.goodreads.com

I do not like how our commercial industry treats animals. It is very abusive, and needlessly so. Which is one of the reasons why I hunt and fish. I cannot trust what industry puts into the bodies of the animals they slaughter for food. When I am hunting or fishing I know precisely what the animal I've killed has put into their bodies, and I know that they have not been needlessly abused by corporate interests.

It should also be noted that the 1970s were different times than today. We were still in a cooling period that began in 1945, and famines still existed. Since 1980 we no longer have had famines, thanks entirely to global warming. The carrying capacity of the planet has significantly increased since 1970. We are able to grow so much food these days that we throw it away on things like Ethanol.

As long as the planet continues to warm we will not have food issues. Which makes this book rather irrelevant since it does not fit with the times, nor does it describe industry practices today but rather those practices from 50 years ago.

 

[Chainsawmassacre]

Industrial meat today isn’t much more humane than it was fifty years ago if at all. We use much more land to grow food to feed animals which we then eat than we would if we just ate the grain ourselves. That hasn’t changed.
As for hunting I’ve always hunted our own meat but the guy makes me stop and think about what gives me the right to make another sentient being suffer so I can eat it when that isn’t really necessary for my survival.

 

[Glitch]

Industrial meat today isn’t much more humane than it was fifty years ago if at all. We use much more land to grow food to feed animals which we then eat than we would if we just ate the grain ourselves. That hasn’t changed.
As for hunting I’ve always hunted our own meat but the guy makes me stop and think about what gives me the right to make another sentient being suffer so I can eat it when that isn’t really necessary for my survival.

It is considerably different today. You are ignoring all the laws that have been enacted since the 1970s. Everything from how animals are raised to how they are transported has significantly changed since the 1970s.

There were no organically grown foods in the 1970s. There were no hormone-free, antibiotic-free, grass-fed beef in the 1970s. There were no cage-free chickens in the 1970s.

Many things have changed about our food in the last 50 years, which is why a book written in the 1970s is not relevant today.

 

[Chainsawmassacre]

It is considerably different today. You are ignoring all the laws that have been enacted since the 1970s. Everything from how animals are raised to how they are transported has significantly changed since the 1970s.

There were no organically grown foods in the 1970s. There were no hormone-free, antibiotic-free, grass-fed beef in the 1970s. There were no cage-free chickens in the 1970s.

Many things have changed about our food in the last 50 years, which is why a book written in the 1970s is not relevant today.

Indeed you can now pay extra for cage free eggs and grass fed no hormones beef but the overwhelming majority of our industrial meat is as inhuman as ever with veil topping the list.
As for transport cattle are still loaded into double deck semi trucks for long waterless hauls with the cows on top defecating on the cows below. Not long ago I spent the night in a rest stop next to one of these trucks and the misery was palpable in their night long bawling and stomping around.
Beyond that the questions this philosopher raises are good ones and thought provoking. Why would we choose to subjugate and slaughter other sentient beings bringing them misery, suffering and pain? From my house I can hear the pitiful cries of cows that go on for days after the farmers in the valley below take the calf from their mothers and lock them in veil cages. It's really pretty heart wrenching.

 

[poppopfox]

Indeed you can now pay extra for cage free eggs and grass fed no hormones beef but the overwhelming majority of our industrial meat is as inhuman as ever with veil topping the list.
As for transport cattle are still loaded into double deck semi trucks for long waterless hauls with the cows on top defecating on the cows below. Not long ago I spent the night in a rest stop next to one of these trucks and the misery was palpable in their night long bawling and stomping around.
Beyond that the questions this philosopher raises are good ones and thought provoking. Why would we choose to subjugate and slaughter other sentient beings bringing them misery, suffering and pain? From my house I can hear the pitiful cries of cows that go on for days after the farmers in the valley below take the calf from their mothers and lock them in veil cages. It's really pretty heart wrenching.

Thank you for starting this thread.

Buddhists believe that is wrong to hurt or kill animals, because all beings are afraid of injury and death:

All living things fear being beaten with clubs.
All living things fear being put to death.
Putting oneself in the place of the other,
Let no one kill nor cause another to kill.
Dhammapada 129

 

[Chainsawmassacre]

Thank you for starting this thread.

Buddhists believe that is wrong to hurt or kill animals, because all beings are afraid of injury and death:

I'm currently reading Writings of an Ethical Life by the same author which got me interested in his first book on animal liberation. He himself isn't religious but his philosophical questions and answers have me looking at every aspect of life through another lens. I'm beginning to question my life long and our societies obsession with meat eating.

 

[Glitch]

Indeed you can now pay extra for cage free eggs and grass fed no hormones beef but the overwhelming majority of our industrial meat is as inhuman as ever with veil topping the list.
As for transport cattle are still loaded into double deck semi trucks for long waterless hauls with the cows on top defecating on the cows below. Not long ago I spent the night in a rest stop next to one of these trucks and the misery was palpable in their night long bawling and stomping around.
Beyond that the questions this philosopher raises are good ones and thought provoking. Why would we choose to subjugate and slaughter other sentient beings bringing them misery, suffering and pain? From my house I can hear the pitiful cries of cows that go on for days after the farmers in the valley below take the calf from their mothers and lock them in veil cages. It's really pretty heart wrenching.

The bolded statement you made simply is not true. It has been a violation of federal law (49 U.S. Code § 80502) to transport animals for more than 28 hours without stopping to unload, and provide them with food, water, and rest. That law has been in effect since 1994.

 

[Chainsawmassacre]

The bolded statement you made simply is not true. It has been a violation of federal law (49 U.S. Code § 80502) to transport animals for more than 28 hours without stopping to unload, and provide them with food, water, and rest. That law has been in effect since 1994.

Obviously it's not enforced and in reality is unenforceable.
Beyond that how would you like to be loaded in a semi truck shoulder to shoulder with other people with no food or water and nowhere to defecate except on each other for 28 hours? Cows are living feeling creatures. Why would we choose to treat them so inhumanely?
The following is indicative of how we treat animals in general.

Here’s Why Eating Veal Is Even More F#*ked Than You Thought - Mercy For Animals

You want to read this.

mercyforanimals.org

 

[Glitch]

Obviously it's not enforced and in reality is unenforceable.
Beyond that how would you like to be loaded in a semi truck shoulder to shoulder with other people with no food or water and nowhere to defecate except on each other for 28 hours? Cows are living feeling creatures. Why would we choose to treat them so inhumanely?
The following is indicative of how we treat animals in general.

Here’s Why Eating Veal Is Even More F#*ked Than You Thought - Mercy For Animals

You want to read this.

mercyforanimals.org

Firstly, inhumane is something that can only be applies to humans, not other species. Don't go around anthropomorphizing our food source, unless you are a cannibal.

Secondly, they are food and their emotional state doesn't mean diddly-squat. Within hours of being delivered to their destination they will be slaughtered and reshipped to grocery stores.

The only thing they should be concerned about is whether or not the animal is so stressed that it starts to pump adrenaline. That will spoil the meat. Adrenaline in the muscles of an animal is what makes its meat taste "gamey." Which is also why hunters prefer to drop their game with just one shot. If the animal runs after being shot, adrenaline is coursing their muscles spoiling the meat.

Sorry, I don't visit Vegan websites since they are automatically anti-meat they will deliberately lie about everything.

 

[poppopfox]

Came across this bit of info some time ago, got my daughter to stop feeding her boys hot dogs!

Facts on Veal Calves

• "Bob" veal calves are newborns, some with umbilical cords still hanging from their abdomens, up to three weeks of age. About 15% of veal calves are marketed as Bob Veal. Meat from these calves goes into hot dogs and prepared sandwich meats.

 

[Glitch]

Came across this bit of info some time ago, got my daughter to stop feeding her boys hot dogs!

Facts on Veal Calves

• "Bob" veal calves are newborns, some with umbilical cords still hanging from their abdomens, up to three weeks of age. About 15% of veal calves are marketed as Bob Veal. Meat from these calves goes into hot dogs and prepared sandwich meats.

It is very common among dairy farmers to slaughter new born male calves. Since only females produce milk, dairy farmers have very little use for male calves.

As far as hot dogs are concerned, they are made mostly from a meat slurry. Which is all the off-cuts of various types of meat rendered into a paste-like consistency. It may not be very appealing to look at, but there is certainly nothing wrong with meat slurry. The problem comes in when they start adding other ingredients not associated with the meat, like nitrites and nitrates, sugar, phosphates, maltodextrin, along with proteolytic enzymes.

 

[Chainsawmassacre]

Firstly, inhumane is something that can only be applies to humans, not other species. Don't go around anthropomorphizing our food source, unless you are a cannibal.

Secondly, they are food and their emotional state doesn't mean diddly-squat. Within hours of being delivered to their destination they will be slaughtered and reshipped to grocery stores.

The only thing they should be concerned about is whether or not the animal is so stressed that it starts to pump adrenaline. That will spoil the meat. Adrenaline in the muscles of an animal is what makes its meat taste "gamey." Which is also why hunters prefer to drop their game with just one shot. If the animal runs after being shot, adrenaline is coursing their muscles spoiling the meat.

Sorry, I don't visit Vegan websites since they are automatically anti-meat they will deliberately lie about everything.

That's pretty much my lifelong attitude and I considered beast to be automata. Our society raised us this way and I've killed more elk, deer, grouse and pheasant than most people have even seen. Think about the dog you love and lavish affection on though and why a cow or pig or deer or elk doesn't deserve the same sort of consideration.
To each his own and I'm not here to judge you or others but this guy does have me thinking.

 

[poppopfox]

It is very common among dairy farmers to slaughter new born male calves. Since only females produce milk, dairy farmers have very little use for male calves.

As far as hot dogs are concerned, they are made mostly from a meat slurry. Which is all the off-cuts of various types of meat rendered into a paste-like consistency. It may not be very appealing to look at, but there is certainly nothing wrong with meat slurry. The problem comes in when they start adding other ingredients not associated with the meat, like nitrites and nitrates, sugar, phosphates, maltodextrin, along with proteolytic enzymes.

The problem comes in... A growing consensus among scientists, doctors, environmentalists, and animal rights activists suggest that our current system of food — specifically meat — production is not sustainable. By 2050, the global demand for meat will double as our population continues to rapidly grow. The effects of all this farming on our environment are currently devastating, and getting worse. Simply put, we are destroying the planet, and meat production and consumption is arguably the most to blame.

Source

In US law, factory farms are called concentrated animal feeding operations (CAFOs for short). In practice, factory farms are very large — four farms in the United States produce 80 percent of the cattle raised for slaughter and half of the chickens. They’re operations that raise livestock in highly confined, high-density conditions with more than 125,000 animals under one roof. The largest food production company in the United States is Tyson Foods, which reported a revenue of $32 billion in 2011. Tyson employs 115,000 people and has 400 operation centers in the United States. It works with nearly 7,000 farms who supply it with animals for the final stages of life, slaughter, and processing. The life cycle of an animal through large scale farming operations is generally: birth at a farm (most come from factories as defined by the EPA), movement to a feedlot for "finishing" (a highly confined "city" for animals), and finally, processing at a plant such as Tyson. In 2010, Tyson "processed" (slaughtered) an average of 42.3 million chickens, 143,000 cows, and nearly 390,000 pigs per week. The company makes its profit by processing animals in efficient and brutal circumstances. For example, in 1925, the average Tyson chicken lived approximately 112 days, weighed around 2.5 pounds at the time of slaughter, and had consumed about 4.7 pounds of grain per pound of its body weight. In 2010, the same chicken lived just 45 days, was slaughtered at an average weight of 5.63 pounds, and consumed just 1.92 pounds of grain per pound. Simply put, the animals live less than half as long, eat half as much and are more than double the size they were 100 years ago.

 

[Glitch]

The problem comes in... A growing consensus among scientists, doctors, environmentalists, and animal rights activists suggest that our current system of food — specifically meat — production is not sustainable.

I have absolutely no interest in what mind-numbingly stupid vegans may think of our meat supply.

By 2050, the global demand for meat will double as our population continues to rapidly grow.

Incorrect. The estimated population by 2050 will be ~9.8 billion. We are currently sitting at ~7.9 billion. That is not anywhere close to double. More like a 24% increase.

The effects of all this farming on our environment are currently devastating, and getting worse. Simply put, we are destroying the planet, and meat production and consumption is arguably the most to blame.

Another lie. It is our continually warming environment that is increasing the number of farms and increasing food production world wide. Alaska, Canada, Norway, Sweden, Finnland, and Russia are all experiencing an agricultural boom thanks to melting permafrost. Most arable land is available today than has ever been available before (at least in the last 115,000 years).

Source

In US law, factory farms are called concentrated animal feeding operations (CAFOs for short). In practice, factory farms are very large — four farms in the United States produce 80 percent of the cattle raised for slaughter and half of the chickens. They’re operations that raise livestock in highly confined, high-density conditions with more than 125,000 animals under one roof. The largest food production company in the United States is Tyson Foods, which reported a revenue of $32 billion in 2011. Tyson employs 115,000 people and has 400 operation centers in the United States. It works with nearly 7,000 farms who supply it with animals for the final stages of life, slaughter, and processing. The life cycle of an animal through large scale farming operations is generally: birth at a farm (most come from factories as defined by the EPA), movement to a feedlot for "finishing" (a highly confined "city" for animals), and finally, processing at a plant such as Tyson. In 2010, Tyson "processed" (slaughtered) an average of 42.3 million chickens, 143,000 cows, and nearly 390,000 pigs per week. The company makes its profit by processing animals in efficient and brutal circumstances. For example, in 1925, the average Tyson chicken lived approximately 112 days, weighed around 2.5 pounds at the time of slaughter, and had consumed about 4.7 pounds of grain per pound of its body weight. In 2010, the same chicken lived just 45 days, was slaughtered at an average weight of 5.63 pounds, and consumed just 1.92 pounds of grain per pound. Simply put, the animals live less than half as long, eat half as much and are more than double the size they were 100 years ago.

Your source, The Verge, is a radical leftist extremist website. Why would you consider that to be a credible source?

 

[poppopfox]

I have absolutely no interest in what mind-numbingly stupid vegans may think of our meat supply.

Obviously

Incorrect. The estimated population by 2050 will be ~9.8 billion. We are currently sitting at ~7.9 billion. That is not anywhere close to double. More like a 24% increase.

Read what I posted again. Not about population doubling.

Another lie. It is our continually warming environment that is increasing the number of farms and increasing food production world wide. Alaska, Canada, Norway, Sweden, Finnland, and Russia are all experiencing an agricultural boom thanks to melting permafrost. Most arable land is available today than has ever been available before (at least in the last 115,000 years).

Which part of this is a lie? "The effects of all this farming on our environment are currently devastating, and getting worse. Simply put, we are destroying the planet, and meat production and consumption is arguably the most to blame."
Where does it mention the availability of arable land? But since you brought it up... .

Abstract CATTLE RANCHING IN THE AMAZON RAINFOREST​

Since the 1960s, the cattle herd of the Amazon Basin has increased from 5 million to more than 70-80 million heads. Around 15% of the Amazon forest has been replaced and around 80% of the deforested areas have been covered by pastures (approximately 900 000 km2). Cattle expansion occurs in the new agricultural frontier areas of the "Arc of deforestation", from the Eastern Brazilian Amazon (States of Maranhão and Pará), through the Southern Brazilian Amazon (States of Tocantins, Mato Grosso and Rondônia) and the Bolivian rainforests, to the Andean Amazon ecosystems of Bolivia, Peru, Ecuador, Colombia and Venezuela.

Your source, The Verge, is a radical leftist extremist website. Why would you consider that to be a credible source?

Your opinion is not credible. MediaBiasFactCheck says so. (Yeah, I know, they're radical leftists too.)


Factual rating High. Prove them wrong.

 

[Glitch]

Obviously

Read what I posted again. Not about population doubling.

If the population only increased by 24% why would our meat consumption increase by 100%? That is what makes it stupid, it makes no sense.

Which part of this is a lie? "The effects of all this farming on our environment are currently devastating, and getting worse. Simply put, we are destroying the planet, and meat production and consumption is arguably the most to blame."

All of it is a leftist lie, naturally. I realize that you leftists vehemently hate all of humanity and desire our extinction, but we are not "destroying the planet" and meat production has absolutely nothing to do with this leftist stupidity.

Where does it mention the availability of arable land? But since you brought it up... .

Abstract CATTLE RANCHING IN THE AMAZON RAINFOREST​

Since the 1960s, the cattle herd of the Amazon Basin has increased from 5 million to more than 70-80 million heads. Around 15% of the Amazon forest has been replaced and around 80% of the deforested areas have been covered by pastures (approximately 900 000 km2). Cattle expansion occurs in the new agricultural frontier areas of the "Arc of deforestation", from the Eastern Brazilian Amazon (States of Maranhão and Pará), through the Southern Brazilian Amazon (States of Tocantins, Mato Grosso and Rondônia) and the Bolivian rainforests, to the Andean Amazon ecosystems of Bolivia, Peru, Ecuador, Colombia and Venezuela.

Your opinion is not credible. MediaBiasFactCheck says so. (Yeah, I know, they're radical leftists too.)


Factual rating High. Prove them wrong.

Actually, it is your radical leftist extremist sources that aren't credible.

 

[poppopfox]

If the population only increased by 24% why would our meat consumption increase by 100%? That is what makes it stupid, it makes no sense.

To you.

All of it is a leftist lie, naturally. I realize that you leftists vehemently hate all of humanity and desire our extinction, but we are not "destroying the planet" and meat production has absolutely nothing to do with this leftist stupidity.

Actually, it is your radical leftist extremist sources that aren't credible.

Brilliant rebuttal of the evidence with your "feels." Now, got any facts to support the above?