Anarchists Storm Rally At Berkeley (1 Viewer)

[Jack Hays]

Reviews of two relevant books.





The history, theory and contradictions of antifa

• By Carlos Lozada

 

[Celebrity]

I have yet to see or understand what Confederate monumnets have to do with Nazi's. I have yet to see or understand the equating of the Confederacy to the Nazi's.

If people who support freedom of speech are willing to march with Nazis in order to "unite the Right," then they are idiots. Cherrypicking my post did not yield any such equivalency. As Kal'Stang painstakingly detailed, in some way or another, the path from Nazi sympathizing to Confederacy supporting is not an immediate step for the feeble of mind.
It is neither 1+1=2 nor is it apples to oranges. That is to say, the Nazis and Confederates are neither identical nor opposite. So I will just briefly address their similarity: they are both openly supportive of subversive Anti-American subculture. There is no question about it.

When I write my posts, I do not compose droning sounds in unison with the brood mother. If you cannot handle a simple analogy between two subversive groups, then I don't know what to tell you because I don't find the regurgitation of the same thing over and over again to be particularly enriching all the time, everywhere.

Actual Nazis were racists, and Confederates were commonly racists too. Here I will explain why that is the case because I just know some asshole is going to pop in to say not all Confederate soldiers were racist, or not all Nazis were racist. Nazis are easier so let's start with the Third Reich which sought to establish some kind of monoculture by forcefully expelling anyone who did not belong, and then blaming them for the violence since they shouldn't have existed there in the first place. It's racist to displace other races and perform genocide in America because we are a nation of United States not United White or Black or Latino Nations.

Confederates were racist because they did not actively oppose slavery. Standing by and allowing discrimination against black people because of their skin color does not make someone "not a racist."

Suppose someone wanted to "preserve history" by erecting a new statue of a white, Confederate soldier in a neighborhood of black people. Actually, suppose someone wanted to erect a statue of Hitler in a Jewish suburb.

That sir, is called trolling. It is neither historical nor preservative. Keeping up old statues in public places is unnecessary and irrelevant to the future of America. It preserves relics of hatred and the relics are a grievance to Americans young and old. It is freedom of speech that permits white people to cruelly and inappropriately remind black people that they were once the property of white people.

They are fascist anarchist who want to bring down the government and install their fascist regimes. And they are using violence and intimidation to quell the opinions and politics of others. You know terrorism.

They are not fascist anarchists, because fascism is incompatible with anarchy and oh God I just realized you're a troll, oh well, I'm not deleting this post.

 

[Celebrity]

Reviews of two relevant books.





The history, theory and contradictions of antifa

• By Carlos Lozada

But Bray scoffs at what he calls “liberal antifascism,” the faith that America’s marketplace of ideas will defeat fascist arguments, or that our political institutions and law enforcement agencies can forestall fascist politics and actions. “Historically, fascist and fascistic ideas have thrived in open debate,” he notes. “An anti-fascist outlook has no tolerance for ‘intolerance.’ It will not ‘agree to disagree.’ ”

I think this is the main point of contention between antifa and the rest of the world. Quite frankly, I don't understand what other people don't understand about intolerance for intolerance. I have come to expect some level of reciprocity in this society. Even though I don't believe I enjoy the same rights as pregnant women, for instance, I do not go around lighting torches and demanding that the human race come to an end so that we can establish a sovereign nation of celibate prudes. I just ask to be treated with dignity.

 

[Stinger]

If people who support freedom of speech are willing to march with Nazis in order to "unite the Right," then they are idiots.

Yes which is why 99.99% of people don't march "with" Nazi's in support of their message. They support free speech. Learn the difference.

the path from Nazi sympathizing to Confederacy supporting is not an immediate step for the feeble of mind.

What does the Confederacy have to do with the Nazi's. Can you use a little brevity and try to be concise?

It is neither 1+1=2 nor is it apples to oranges. That is to say, the Nazis and Confederates are neither identical nor opposite. So I will just briefly address their similarity: they are both openly supportive of subversive Anti-American subculture. There is no question about it.

Well then quit trying to tie them together.

When I write my posts, I do not compose droning sounds in unison with the brood mother. If you cannot handle a simple analogy between two subversive groups, then I don't know what to tell you because I don't find the regurgitation of the same thing over and over again to be particularly enriching all the time, everywhere.

Actual Nazis were racists, and Confederates were commonly racists too. Here I will explain why that is the case because I just know some asshole is going to pop in to say not all Confederate soldiers were racist, or not all Nazis were racist. Nazis are easier so let's start with the Third Reich which sought to establish some kind of monoculture by forcefully expelling anyone who did not belong, and then blaming them for the violence since they shouldn't have existed there in the first place. It's racist to displace other races and perform genocide in America because we are a nation of United States not United White or Black or Latino Nations.

You mean when it came to the African Negros, well so were the people in north and so was Lincoln so I guess they were all Nazi's.

They are not fascist anarchists, because fascism is incompatible with anarchy and oh God I just realized you're a troll, oh well, I'm not deleting this post.

They most certainly are and use Nazi's tactics and are closer to the Nazi's than any Confederates were.

Now read my sig...............

 

[beerftw]

No, contrary to your elememtary arguments you are vastly ill informed.

The Nazis only came to power because of the Great Depression. Had that not happened there would be no Hitler, no Third Reich. It's plain and simple truth.

Hitler rose to power because of impeccable timing amd good propaganda. He was undoubtedly a great speaker and a smart man but he was not powerful enough to simply snap his fingers and bring order to chaos. That's not how the Nazis rose to power. Like all fascists they claimed to stand for the nation and all people, claimed they would clean up the streets and get rid of the undesirables. When people resisted they were brutalized by the SA and huntes by the Gestapo. So much was the reputation of thuggery and brutality of the SA that when they were purged, the action was praised in the West as "moderating" the Nazi Party.

The great depression played a role for sure, but the comunist groups were also exploiting it. To narrow it down there was the rotfront, which was the combination of red comunists vs the blue fascists, this had gone on before the nazi party ever existed, in fact in 1919 almost a fifth of germany was under comunist rule as the bavarian soviet republican before it was overthrown by weimar loyalists and right wing militias, and it did not help when the govt said that food and milk shortages were ok because the children that would have died would have been fighting against the proletariat.

Germany had already seen soviet style rule in 1919, and violent groups attacking people in germany since 1917, right after the fall of russia due to bolsheviks. These groups scared germany so much it ended up causing them to side with fascists as an answer. Add to that the brown shirts who you seem to single out out of the massive number of militias doing the same or worse, had 3 functions.

One was to protect the fascists from redshirt attacks, which happened frequently, the other to attack and disrupt redshirt functions to silence them, same as the redshirts were doing to them, and third to harrass the jews, because nazi. Minus the jew part the rotfront was doing bit for bit the exact same, this created the chaos he needed.

Also to note the parliment granted hitler dictator powers, and the countries president before that named him chancellor despite not having a majority but a plurality. Prior to that the people were convinced to appoint nazis to parliment to ensure comunists could not run the country.

So in short yes hitler damn near did snap his fingers, he did not violently overthrow the govt, he convinced the govt to give him everything, in which shortly after he banned all non nazi parties from govt and public, and after their president died not too long after he gained full power as a dictator, which the govt had granted him, save for the presidents power.

 

[JamesBY]

The Alt Righters would love to give Trump the same power in America that Hitler had in the 3rd Reich.

 

[Stinger]

The real danger comes from Nazi sympathizers. I saw a Reuters/Ipsos poll recently that shows more than half of Americans want to preserve Confederate monuments. I don't know that I would call Antifa anarchists, they aren't advocating dissolution of the state, which is the first step toward anarchy from where we are now. They aren't attacking free speech, but those speakers are collateral damage.

The real dangers come from the Neo-Nazi's AND the Antifa but more so the Antifa as they have LOTS more supporters and engage in LOTS more violence and destruction and assaults on people with whom they disagree trying to such down the speech of those who disagree and want to install their fascism into our government.

 

[What if...?]

omfg someone read history yaaaaaay though I doubt most will understand the reichstag fire or the events leading up to it or how being violent against nazis only helped them instead of hurt them.

A knife in the ribs on the way home would have worked better. Squaring off is dumb.

Wondering if you're next is a great deterrent.

 

[JamesBY]

The real dangers come from the Neo-Nazi's AND the Antifa but more so the Antifa as they have LOTS more supporters and engage in LOTS more violence and destruction and assaults on people with whom they disagree trying to such down the speech of those who disagree and want to install their fascism into our government.

You are unhappy that Antifa puts itself in harm's way between the Alt Right and those they want to hurt.

That really makes you mad.

 

[ReverendHellh0und]

lol, what? Black bloc is anarchists.

Black bloc is a tactic not limited to anarchists. ANTIFA are communist scum.

 

[ReverendHellh0und]

What has given you confusion?

 

[Khayembii Communique]

Black bloc is a tactic not limited to anarchists.

It pretty much is, though. I don't know why you think black bloc is anything but?

 

[Khayembii Communique]

What has given you confusion?

You can't be "fascist in the name of antifascism". I don't think you know what fascism is.

 

[ReverendHellh0und]

You can't be "fascist in the name of antifascism". I don't think you know what fascism is.

If you act like a fascist it doesn't matter what you call yourself. they are "antifascist" in name only. thier tactics, and thier positions are the very same ones they claim to be against.


Those ****in scumbags are just as bad as the nazis they fight, much worse than the people they claim are nazis and attack.

 

[ReverendHellh0und]

It pretty much is, though. I don't know why you think black bloc is anything but?

it's a tactic that yeah originated with anarchists but has been adopted by the socialists/communists. are you denying this?

 

[RickJames3000]

If you act like a fascist it doesn't matter what you call yourself. they are "antifascist" in name only. thier tactics, and thier positions are the very same ones they claim to be against.


Those ****in scumbags are just as bad as the nazis they fight, much worse than the people they claim are nazis and attack.

Only with a sick and disordered mind could one come to the conclusion that antifascists are "much worse" than Nazis and racists.

 

[ReverendHellh0und]

Only with a sick and disordered mind could one come to the conclusion that antifascists are "much worse" than Nazis and racists.

derp. you need to learn how to read, son.


The nazis, white nationalist, racists are the same as ANTIFA. ANTIFA is worse, far worse than the people they attack falsey calling them nazis.


like this guys victim.

Berkeley bike lock attack: Ex-professor pleads not guilty to felony charge



see what morons do, is take two disrelated groups find an inane commonality, and therefore make the claim they are the same.



For example, pedophiles are bad. some antifa members are pedophiles, therefore anyone who defends antifa is a pedophile and should be jailed as one.


That's your logic son it's antifa's justification for going after any and all trump supporters as "nazis" , it lacks the mark of an educated or logical position, in your case, I assume both.

 

[RickJames3000]

see what morons do, is take two disrelated groups find an inane commonality, and therefore make the claim they are the same.

Exactly as you are doing, falsely conflating antifa with Nazis. That demonstrates your essential ignorance of both of these groups.

The crap you wrote was nonsensical drivel the first time you posted it.
I don't understand why you'd want to double down on stupid by repeating it. :shrug:

 

[ReverendHellh0und]

Exactly as you are doing, falsely conflating antifa with Nazis. That demonstrates your essential ignorance of both of these groups.

The crap you wrote was nonsensical drivel the first time you posted it.
I don't understand why you'd want to double down on stupid by repeating it. :shrug:

Tell me which group wants to protect individual rights?

Tell me which group is not scapegoating another side?

Tell me which group is not doing violene in the name of thier absolute beliefs?


This is way over your head, and you are quickly hitting your quota for the day, up the intellectual response or I will simply ignore you. you have been warned.

 

[RickJames3000]

Tell me which group wants to protect individual rights?

Tell me which group is not scapegoating another side?

Tell me which group is not doing violene in the name of thier absolute beliefs?


This is way over your head, and you are quickly hitting your quota for the day, up the intellectual response or I will simply ignore you. you have been warned.

And you have been "warned" about posting increasingly stupid arguments... yet you'll continue to put them forth, as long as you frequent this site.

 

[ReverendHellh0und]

And you have been "warned" about posting increasingly stupid arguments... yet you'll continue to put them forth, as long as you frequent this site.

Sorry your quota has been used up.

 

[RickJames3000]

<retarded meme>

And yet your stubborn commitment to spout a never-ending stream of ridiculous garbage seems to be never-ending.
Go figure...

 

[Khayembii Communique]

If you act like a fascist it doesn't matter what you call yourself. they are "antifascist" in name only. thier tactics, and thier positions are the very same ones they claim to be against.


Those ****in scumbags are just as bad as the nazis they fight, much worse than the people they claim are nazis and attack.

Fascist is a political movement and doctrine. It isn't just a word for being violent. I think the word you're looking for is authoritarian.

Anyways, the tactics aren't really as important as the ideas behind the tactics. In this case it's clear that opposition of neo-nazis is a different belief than wanting to implement another holocaust.

it's a tactic that yeah originated with anarchists but has been adopted by the socialists/communists. are you denying this?


View attachment 67222416View attachment 67222417

Red Action was a group of squadists that were actually expelled from the Socialist Workers Party for their adoption of black bloc tactics, so that might not be a good example for your case.

Here's a typical criticism of black bloc from the communist left. Most communists dislike the black bloc and oppose it on the basis that its focoist tactics not only alienate people, but put them in danger as well, preventing revolutionaries from effective organizing at demonstrations.

 

[ReverendHellh0und]

Fascist is a political movement and doctrine. It isn't just a word for being violent. I think the word you're looking for is authoritarian.

is not one of the halmarks of fascism, authoritarianism? You are asking me to be accurate when it comes to calling something fascist, shouldn't you hold the same standard for antifa scum?

Anyways, the tactics aren't really as important as the ideas behind the tactics. In this case it's clear that opposition of neo-nazis is a different belief than wanting to implement another holocaust.

It's not clear when they attack people who are not racist, and who are not nazis, not fascists in the name of fighting fascism. Many of them are communist who murdered 100's of millions of people, why is that ideology acceptable?

Red Action was a group of squadists that were actually expelled from the Socialist Workers Party for their adoption of black bloc tactics, so that might not be a good example for your case...

but they still are claiming ANTIFA, what do I care what the socialist workers party have done, are they who we are talking about here? I can find hundreds of more examples for you.

 

[ReverendHellh0und]

Here's a typical criticism of black bloc from the communist left. Most communists dislike the black bloc and oppose it on the basis that its focoist tactics not only alienate people, but put them in danger as well, preventing revolutionaries from effective organizing at demonstrations.

You want to separate your socialist workers party from the violence, but you cant separate the socialists from the violence.