Hi,
My name is Ron. I am new here.
As I see it, this long-forgotten notion of a de-militarized, Jewish-State-accepting Palestinian state is an obvious failure that still resonates the halls of every major decision-making party / mediator.
As I see it, peace did not stand a chance in the first place.
Since the establishment of the terrorist movement, Hamas, and the world's subsequent denial of it being what it has always been - a terror organization, peace was doomed for failure.
Just imagine how it would have turned out, if all Western countries had made sure to declare this rogue entity a barrier for peace and stability, right from the get-go.
No political / financial ties. Total US ban on financial assets and money transferring. No co-operation, non-whatsoever with any entity, including the Palestinian Authority -- total isolation and denial of the right to hold outspoken declarations of the annihilation of the State of Israel.
Where would we be now?
The PA would have its A, B and C territories. It would be totally independent. The whole region would flourish and there would be neighborly co-operation on geographical and financial endeavors, cementing the Middle East as a power of goodness, success and freedom.
But, as we all know, the world has always been and will forever be blind as to how cruel they are, even with their own citizens.
Hamas has no regard for human rights, no qualms about killing people, practically just for the fun of it. Hamas uses children as human shield and bombs its own life-line - border-crossings that provide food and medicine for a decaying population, ripped off any hope for a better future.
In my opinion, Hamas is far more detrimental for the Palestinians than it is for Israel. They would have long-ago had a state of their own.
THE WORLD IS TO BLAME
Russia / Muslim countries / myopic Western countries - they're all to blame! If Israel had been bluffing this whole time, not willing to co-operate with peace / giving territories, IT would have been the one isolated and backed into a corner that would have coerced it to negotiate.
Israeli public opinion / election results would have made it impossible for our leaders to perpetuate violence and death.
Instead, we have a potential terror base enveloping Israel on all sides. Hamas would no-doubt seize power of newly-given territories, as it did in 2007, while throwing PA officers off rooftops into their death.
Neither Israel nor the PA is to blame. THE WORLD IS TO BLAME!
MyRon:
There is enough blame to go around, but to exonerate the State of Israel is absurd. It is one of the two prime actors in this long, 70+ year struggle along with the Palestinian people. The pre-Israeli pseudo state (the Jewish Agency) knowingly and with malice of forethought seized legally held Palestinians' lands by force of arms in 1947-1948 and Israel has continued that process to this day. The Israeli state is the occupying power in the Occupied Territories and its military and intelligence arms of the state have done a lot more death and damage to Palestinians than Palestinians have done to the State of Israel and its people. So Israel is hardly blameless for this protracted mess.
But you are right about the world letting this problem fester for about three and a half generations. Had the international community moved quickly and forcefully to stop Jewish paramilitaries and later the State of Israel in 1948 by reoccupying the Mandate of Palestine and disarming both sides in this struggle for land, then this mess could have been avoided for the most part. That window of opportunity closed in 1966-1967 when Israel developed nuclear weapons and the means to deliver them.
So whose to blame? The radical zionists who took up arms, the radical Palestinians (including Hamas) who took up arms, The State of Israel which continues to seize land, the surrounding Arab States who used Zionism to focus Arab rage away from their own domestic problems and onto Israel in a campaign of state-sponsored and super-charged xenophobia, the surrounding Arab states for believing that war(s) could solve this mess, the UK Government for abandoning its responsibilities in the Mandate of Palestine, the UN for naiveté and impotence in stopping this mess early, France for helping Israel develop nuclear weapons and a strong armed forces later replaced by the USA for supporting Israel with political cover and huge amounts of money for militarisation, and finally the world for tolerating the vicious, aggressive, regional leviathan that the Israel State has become since the late 1970's.
Cheers.
Evilroddy.
MyRon:
There is enough blame to go around, but to exonerate the State of Israel is absurd. It is one of the two prime actors in this long, 70+ year struggle along with the Palestinian people. The pre-Israeli pseudo state (the Jewish Agency) knowingly and with malice of forethought seized legally held Palestinians' lands by force of arms in 1947-1948 and Israel has continued that process to this day. The Israeli state is the occupying power in the Occupied Territories and its military and intelligence arms of the state have done a lot more death and damage to Palestinians than Palestinians have done to the State of Israel and its people. So Israel is hardly blameless for this protracted mess.
But you are right about the world letting this problem fester for about three and a half generations. Had the international community moved quickly and forcefully to stop Jewish paramilitaries and later the State of Israel in 1948 by reoccupying the Mandate of Palestine and disarming both sides in this struggle for land, then this mess could have been avoided for the most part. That window of opportunity closed in 1966-1967 when Israel developed nuclear weapons and the means to deliver them.
So whose to blame? The radical zionists who took up arms, the radical Palestinians (including Hamas) who took up arms, The State of Israel which continues to seize land, the surrounding Arab States who used Zionism to focus Arab rage away from their own domestic problems and onto Israel in a campaign of state-sponsored and super-charged xenophobia, the surrounding Arab states for believing that war(s) could solve this mess, the UK Government for abandoning its responsibilities in the Mandate of Palestine, the UN for naiveté and impotence in stopping this mess early, France for helping Israel develop nuclear weapons and a strong armed forces later replaced by the USA for supporting Israel with political cover and huge amounts of money for militarisation, and finally the world for tolerating the vicious, aggressive, regional leviathan that the Israel State has become since the late 1970's.
Cheers.
Evilroddy.
"With Malice"
How do you attribute such a notion to the jewish agency? You realize that they had just dealt with a holocaust and jews as a whole were poor and minute in number. Prior to, there had only been few outbreaks of violence between jews and arabs, and statehood was never goal for either the jews or the arabs at the time.
Wicked barbarians have been fighting God and the Jewish people for 4,000 years over the onership rights to the land of Judah given to Abraham and his descendants for a never-ending inheritance. To hell with the devil and his human associates.
MyRon:
There is enough blame to go around, but to exonerate the State of Israel is absurd. It is one of the two prime actors in this long, 70+ year struggle along with the Palestinian people. The pre-Israeli pseudo state (the Jewish Agency) knowingly and with malice of forethought seized legally held Palestinians' lands by force of arms in 1947-1948 and Israel has continued that process to this day. The Israeli state is the occupying power in the Occupied Territories and its military and intelligence arms of the state have done a lot more death and damage to Palestinians than Palestinians have done to the State of Israel and its people. So Israel is hardly blameless for this protracted mess.
But you are right about the world letting this problem fester for about three and a half generations. Had the international community moved quickly and forcefully to stop Jewish paramilitaries and later the State of Israel in 1948 by reoccupying the Mandate of Palestine and disarming both sides in this struggle for land, then this mess could have been avoided for the most part. That window of opportunity closed in 1966-1967 when Israel developed nuclear weapons and the means to deliver them.
So whose to blame? The radical zionists who took up arms, the radical Palestinians (including Hamas) who took up arms, The State of Israel which continues to seize land, the surrounding Arab States who used Zionism to focus Arab rage away from their own domestic problems and onto Israel in a campaign of state-sponsored and super-charged xenophobia, the surrounding Arab states for believing that war(s) could solve this mess, the UK Government for abandoning its responsibilities in the Mandate of Palestine, the UN for naiveté and impotence in stopping this mess early, France for helping Israel develop nuclear weapons and a strong armed forces later replaced by the USA for supporting Israel with political cover and huge amounts of money for militarisation, and finally the world for tolerating the vicious, aggressive, regional leviathan that the Israel State has become since the late 1970's.
Cheers.
Evilroddy.
Marke:
Actually it's closer to 5500 years and the hill barbarians were the Hebrew hill tribes while the citified Canaanites were the civilised folks who were massacred and wiped out. Next it was the Amalekites, Eblaites and Amorites although these were nomadic folk for the most part. Later the Hebrews moved to attack the Philistines along the coast and later still he civilised Syrians and Neo-Hittites in what is now called Phoenicia.
So the barbarians were the "wicked"* Hebrews who seized the land from their civilised neighbours by force arms until the Assyrians and later the Babylonians ended the ancient Jewish kingdoms of Israel and Judah.
Cheers.
Evilroddy.
Exonerate? I wasn't aware Israel was on trial. It isn't. There's no case, none whatsoever.
About 1947-1948 – reducing Jewish history to one year of settling down in our fathers' land is not only insulting, but a ridicule to historical facts.
"…with malice of forethought seized legally held Palestinians' lands by force of arms in 1947-1948 and Israel has continued that process to this day…"
Your uncanny mention of using force by Israel, while neglecting to mention Palestinian terror acts, numerous, unprovoked, indiscriminate launching of thousands of rockets into innocent population indicates total bias and preposterous representation of historical and present-time events.
Making a comparison of how many dead people there have been on each side is a fallacy. Are we supposed to apologize for not having more casualties on our side? It is the aggressor who gets whipped. It is the aggressor who must learn his/her lesson well.
Instead of defending the radicals, an intelligent person would make a clear distinction between the Palestinian Authority, who would have made real and viable peace with Israel, and the barbaric, God-less Hamas, who wouldn't even shed a tear over another Palestinian child dying as a result of their callous and asinine method of bringing nothing but pain, poverty and despair to their decaying population. Playing with human lives has always been their game. They put children in harm's way, provoke Israel and wait for the fallout – world condemnation for Israel rightfully retaliating. Let the world condemn. Anti-Semitism is almost as old as history is!
One of the most important decisions Israel has ever made is – arming itself with nukes. Not only does it serve to defend this single Jewish State, but it deters other primitive players from taking unnecessary risks and putting their own population in harm's way.
Who's to blame? (not "whose")
How about the ones who will never settle for anything less than the total annihilation of the State of Israel?
We can debate it until we are blue in the face – who IS or ISN'T entitled to have this land, but at the end of the day it is Hamas that has prevented a non-barbaric solution, by declaring the entirety of the Land of Israel as the future Palestine.
Let them dream on, while their children are caught between the cross-fire.
As Golda Meir once said: "The second the Palestinians start loving their own children, more than they love to hate Israel – that's when there will be peace."
Never-ever will they ever.
:-(
In the eyes of bloody savage enemies of God the well-disciplined respectable children of God are the barbarians.
Exonerate? I wasn't aware Israel was on trial. It isn't. There's no case, none whatsoever.
About 1947-1948 – reducing Jewish history to one year of settling down in our fathers' land is not only insulting, but a ridicule to historical facts.
"…with malice of forethought seized legally held Palestinians' lands by force of arms in 1947-1948 and Israel has continued that process to this day…"
Your uncanny mention of using force by Israel, while neglecting to mention Palestinian terror acts, numerous, unprovoked, indiscriminate launching of thousands of rockets into innocent population indicates total bias and preposterous representation of historical and present-time events.
Making a comparison of how many dead people there have been on each side is a fallacy. Are we supposed to apologize for not having more casualties on our side? It is the aggressor who gets whipped. It is the aggressor who must learn his/her lesson well.
Instead of defending the radicals, an intelligent person would make a clear distinction between the Palestinian Authority, who would have made real and viable peace with Israel, and the barbaric, God-less Hamas, who wouldn't even shed a tear over another Palestinian child dying as a result of their callous and asinine method of bringing nothing but pain, poverty and despair to their decaying population. Playing with human lives has always been their game. They put children in harm's way, provoke Israel and wait for the fallout – world condemnation for Israel rightfully retaliating. Let the world condemn. Anti-Semitism is almost as old as history is!
One of the most important decisions Israel has ever made is – arming itself with nukes. Not only does it serve to defend this single Jewish State, but it deters other primitive players from taking unnecessary risks and putting their own population in harm's way.
Who's to blame? (not "whose")
How about the ones who will never settle for anything less than the total annihilation of the State of Israel?
We can debate it until we are blue in the face – who IS or ISN'T entitled to have this land, but at the end of the day it is Hamas that has prevented a non-barbaric solution, by declaring the entirety of the Land of Israel as the future Palestine.
Let them dream on, while their children are caught between the cross-fire.
As Golda Meir once said: "The second the Palestinians start loving their own children, more than they love to hate Israel – that's when there will be peace."
Never-ever will they ever.
:-(
Hi,
My name is Ron. I am new here.
As I see it, this long-forgotten notion of a de-militarized, Jewish-State-accepting Palestinian state is an obvious failure that still resonates the halls of every major decision-making party / mediator.
As I see it, peace did not stand a chance in the first place.
Since the establishment of the terrorist movement, Hamas, and the world's subsequent denial of it being what it has always been - a terror organization, peace was doomed for failure.
Just imagine how it would have turned out, if all Western countries had made sure to declare this rogue entity a barrier for peace and stability, right from the get-go.
No political / financial ties. Total US ban on financial assets and money transferring. No co-operation, non-whatsoever with any entity, including the Palestinian Authority -- total isolation and denial of the right to hold outspoken declarations of the annihilation of the State of Israel.
Where would we be now?
The PA would have its A, B and C territories. It would be totally independent. The whole region would flourish and there would be neighborly co-operation on geographical and financial endeavors, cementing the Middle East as a power of goodness, success and freedom.
But, as we all know, the world has always been and will forever be blind as to how cruel they are, even with their own citizens.
Hamas has no regard for human rights, no qualms about killing people, practically just for the fun of it. Hamas uses children as human shield and bombs its own life-line - border-crossings that provide food and medicine for a decaying population, ripped off any hope for a better future.
In my opinion, Hamas is far more detrimental for the Palestinians than it is for Israel. They would have long-ago had a state of their own.
THE WORLD IS TO BLAME
Russia / Muslim countries / myopic Western countries - they're all to blame! If Israel had been bluffing this whole time, not willing to co-operate with peace / giving territories, IT would have been the one isolated and backed into a corner that would have coerced it to negotiate.
Israeli public opinion / election results would have made it impossible for our leaders to perpetuate violence and death.
Instead, we have a potential terror base enveloping Israel on all sides. Hamas would no-doubt seize power of newly-given territories, as it did in 2007, while throwing PA officers off rooftops into their death.
Neither Israel nor the PA is to blame. THE WORLD IS TO BLAME!
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