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An Example Of Why Government Can't Be Run Like A Business: The Postal Service

skews13. said:
Every now and then, the country gets the insane idea of putting a businessman in the White House on the theory that “America should be run like a business.”

This is totally wrong.
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Totally correct. Private business drives up the cost of everything. Not only do you have to pay for their waste but you also have to line the pockets of the investor class.
 
trblmkr said:
Could you address post #21?
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Sure.

trblmkr said:
Those companies often use the USPS for "last mile" deliveries because they cannot serve many rural areas and maintain those profits.
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Of course, that's why if you choose to live out in the boondocks, you have to drive into town to pick up your letters/packages.
 
aociswundumho said:
Sure.



Of course, that's why if you choose to live out in the boondocks, you have to drive into town to pick up your letters/packages.
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No, actually you don't. They come to my home every day and I live very rural. As in there is not another home for 5 miles. So you are admitting that the first sacrifice will be home delivery/pick-up? In your opinion, what should happen to the charges?
As a note, I am in favor of doing away with Saturday service. It requires part time people to cover the regular mail man, and causes them to have rotating days off. I don't know how much this would save, but I believe it would be significant.
 
United Kingdom, Germany, Portugal, Japan and a couple of others have privatized their post office.

While some things should not be privatized, such as prisons, the Post Office is in the other category.

I have no objection to privatization or to ending service mandates.

In 1787, mail was the only major communication tool available and government control made sense. That is obviously no longer the case.
 
aociswundumho said:
How does losing taxpayer dollars benefit US taxpayers?
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Some services don't and can't make a profit.

Please show how the fire department can make a profit.
 
Peter said:
Some services don't and can't make a profit.

Please show how the fire department can make a profit.
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Somebody is currently paying whatever it costs to operate fire departments.
 
Safiel said:
United Kingdom, Germany, Portugal, Japan and a couple of others have privatized their post office.

While some things should not be privatized, such as prisons, the Post Office is in the other category.

I have no objection to privatization or to ending service mandates.

In 1787, mail was the only major communication tool available and government control made sense. That is obviously no longer the case.
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When did the UK privatize its post office ?

"Post Office Limited, formerly Post Office Counters Limited and commonly known as the Post Office, is a state-owned retail post office company in the United Kingdom that provides a wide range of postal and non-postal related products..."
en.wikipedia.org

Post Office Limited - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org en.wikipedia.org
 
dmpi said:
This make no sense. The post office can easily be contracted out to the private sector who will in fact run it like a business. The only way the post offices survives is that's it's a monopoly.
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How is USPS a monopoly?
 
SkyChief said:
Compare USPS with private sector parcel delivery carriers such as UPS, Fed Ex, DHL, etc.

All of the private sector delivery carriers make profits and pay dividends to stockowners.

USPS runs on deficits because government cannot operate efficiently like the private sector businesses can. USPS doesn't need to be efficient. They rely on Taxpayers pick up the slack for their inefficiency, mismanagement and waste.
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Can't discount Congress' messing about with the USPS' financial obligations.

In 2006, Congress passed a law that imposed extraordinary costs on the U.S. Postal Service. The Postal Accountability and Enhancement Act (PAEA) required the USPS to create a $72 billion fund to pay for the cost of its post-retirement health care costs, 75 years into the future. This burden applies to no other federal agency or private corporation.​
​
If the costs of this retiree health care mandate were removed from the USPS financial statements, the Post Office would have reported operating profits in each of the last six years. This extraordinary mandate created a financial “crisis” that has been used to justify harmful service cuts and even calls for postal privatization. Additional cuts in service and privatization would be devastating for millions of postal workers and customers.​
Published: July 15, 2019​
ips-dc.org

How Congress Manufactured a Postal Crisis — And How to Fix it

An unprecedented congressional mandate threatens the Postal Service's ability to continue to provide good jobs and universal service.
ips-dc.org ips-dc.org

Take away this, things don't look as bad as with.
 
SkyChief said:
Compare USPS with private sector parcel delivery carriers such as UPS, Fed Ex, DHL, etc.

All of the private sector delivery carriers make profits and pay dividends to stockowners.

USPS runs on deficits because government cannot operate efficiently like the private sector businesses can. USPS doesn't need to be efficient. They rely on Taxpayers pick up the slack for their inefficiency, mismanagement and waste.
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Would a private sector business deliver mail to anywhere in the United States at the cost the USPS does?
 
eohrnberger said:
Can't discount Congress' messing about with the USPS' financial obligations.

In 2006, Congress passed a law that imposed extraordinary costs on the U.S. Postal Service. The Postal Accountability and Enhancement Act (PAEA) required the USPS to create a $72 billion fund to pay for the cost of its post-retirement health care costs, 75 years into the future. This burden applies to no other federal agency or private corporation.​
​
If the costs of this retiree health care mandate were removed from the USPS financial statements, the Post Office would have reported operating profits in each of the last six years. This extraordinary mandate created a financial “crisis” that has been used to justify harmful service cuts and even calls for postal privatization. Additional cuts in service and privatization would be devastating for millions of postal workers and customers.​
Published: July 15, 2019​
ips-dc.org

How Congress Manufactured a Postal Crisis — And How to Fix it

An unprecedented congressional mandate threatens the Postal Service's ability to continue to provide good jobs and universal service.
ips-dc.org ips-dc.org

Take away this, things don't look as bad as with.
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Passed by a Republican congress and signed into law by a Republican president.
 
SkyChief said:
Compare USPS with private sector parcel delivery carriers such as UPS, Fed Ex, DHL, etc.

All of the private sector delivery carriers make profits and pay dividends to stockowners.

USPS runs on deficits because government cannot operate efficiently like the private sector businesses can. USPS doesn't need to be efficient. They rely on Taxpayers pick up the slack for their inefficiency, mismanagement and waste.
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This is precisely the argument. The left always promotes the NEED for government to do what private sector couldnt possibly do...yet...does...routinely.

So sure...say the government can be run COMPLETELY as a business. That doesnt change the very real NEED for a top down review of government and government spending. In light of the fact that our reckless disregard for government spending will cause our grandchildren to be saddled with an ever growing mountain of debt, people are still panicking at the prospect of review of and restoration of a responsible, effective, efficient government.
 
Safiel said:
United Kingdom, Germany, Portugal, Japan and a couple of others have privatized their post office.

While some things should not be privatized, such as prisons, the Post Office is in the other category.

I have no objection to privatization or to ending service mandates.

In 1787, mail was the only major communication tool available and government control made sense. That is obviously no longer the case.
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???
 
skews13. said:
Every now and then, the country gets the insane idea of putting a businessman in the White House on the theory that “America should be run like a business.”
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This is the lamest category error ever.

These people want their government to make a profit off of them, at their expense. It's the stupidest thing I can imagine.
 
Luce said:
This is the lamest category error ever.

These people want their government to make a profit off of them, at their expense. It's the stupidest thing I can imagine.
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Indeed, like when did it happen before ?
 
Lethargic Aptitude said:
How is USPS a monopoly?
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The have a monopoly on putting letters in your mailbox:

Can a flyer/envelope be put it in someone else's mailbox without being mailed? What if a stamp was placed on it?

No. Per Sect. 508.3.1.3 of the Domestic Mail Manual (DMM): "No part of a mail receptacle may be used to deliver any matter not bearing postage, including items or matter placed upon, supported by, attached to, hung from, or inserted into a mail receptacle. Any mailable matter not bearing postage and found as described above is subject to the same postage as would be paid if it were carried by mail."
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Here's a nice propaganda piece that rationalizes their monopoly:

 
ALiberalModerate said:
Would a private sector business deliver mail to anywhere in the United States at the cost the USPS does?
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No - - because they cannot rely on taxpayer support.

I don't know about you, but 90% of the mail that WE receive is junk - - - stupid advertisements and stupid solicitations. Because it is so damn cheap.

I would welcome a higher [private sector] cost of real mail. The amount of junk mail would go down a lot or it might even stop entirely. That would be so nice. :)
 
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SkyChief said:
No - - because they cannot rely on taxpayer support.

I don't know about you, but 90% of the mail that WE receive is junk - - - stupid advertisements and stupid solicitations. Because it is so damn cheap.

I would welcome a higher [private sector] cost of real mail. The amount of junk mail would go down a lot or it might even stop entirely. That would be so nice. :)
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I don't care anything about daily delivery of mail so I am with you there. I am just pointing out that what USPS does and private parcel delivery is not the same thing.

I started a thread on how antiquated the postal service is a couple of years ago: Thread 'Next-gen USPS mail trucks are only capable of 8.6 mpg, EPA says' https://debatepolitics.com/threads/...-are-only-capable-of-8-6-mpg-epa-says.471926/
 
aociswundumho said:
The have a monopoly on putting letters in your mailbox:



Here's a nice propaganda piece that rationalizes their monopoly:

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No monopoly. There are just rules disallowing the use of an official USPS mailbox for anything but official US mail. Use your own private box not intended for US mail, those rules do not apply.

So like they used to do with newspapers, nothing stops private mailboxes. That only means you cannot use a mailbox intended for the USPS. Thats why political ads are left on doors and gates instead of mailboxes for US mail service. In the yesteryears, they put them in the newspaper box.

UPS does it.
  • Multi-Carrier Compatible
    • Unlike USPS P.O. Boxes, a UPS Mailbox can accept packages from all carriers. Additionally, it can accept deliveries from USPS and FedEx, among others.
 
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