An argument for Universal Healthcare...

I am going to say something that most conservatives hate to hear.

The majority of Americans want healthcare. And although, I feel that the Federal Government is to big, I also think that the will of the people who are alive today, should outweigh the ideals instilled from yesteryear.

Another reason that I want it, is because it's pro small business. Not big business, who doesn't want it because it could mean a tax hike for them. But the small guy, who wants to pay his employees an honest wage and can't because he's required to pay their insurance as well.

I'm not going to make a technical argument on cost. Because, I'm an American, and it doesn't matter what it costs if it's the right thing. I don't think we as a country do the right thing often enough.

And you know who agrees with me? Donald Trump.

I'm a conservative on most issues but a liberal on this one. We should not hear so many stories of families ruined by healthcare expenses. We must not allow citizens with medical problems to go untreated because of financial problems or red tape. It is an unacceptable but accurate fact that the number of uninsured Americans has risen to forty-two million.

Working out detailed plans will take time. But the goal should be clear: Our people are our greatest asset. We must take care of our own. We must have universal Healthcare.
-The America We Deserve, by Donald Trump

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https://books.google.ca/books?id=PV...serve" "we must take care of our own"&f=false

So argue against him, not me. He's convinced me.

ThoughtEx. said:

I am going to say something that most conservatives hate to hear.

The majority of Americans want healthcare. And although, I feel that the Federal Government is to big, I also think that the will of the people who are alive today, should outweigh the ideals instilled from yesteryear.

Another reason that I want it, is because it's pro small business. Not big business, who doesn't want it because it could mean a tax hike for them. But the small guy, who wants to pay his employees an honest wage and can't because he's required to pay their insurance as well.

I'm not going to make a technical argument on cost. Because, I'm an American, and it doesn't matter what it costs if it's the right thing. I don't think we as a country do the right thing often enough.

And you know who agrees with me? Donald Trump.



https://books.google.ca/books?id=PV...serve" "we must take care of our own"&f=false

So argue against him, not me. He's convinced me.

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First of all, Trump has no clue what he is talking about and no one should take his advice for health care solutions. The man is a moron. Secondly, the rest of the world approached this logically and systematically with one goal in mind, universal health care for one and all. Until we catch up to their moral superiority and agree, no demand, universal health care, it will never happen. If you are interested in learning more about various forms of it, check out a frontline piece on it around the world, its on youtube.

The majority of Americans want (and very much need) food, clothing and shelter. Does that mean that we should all get the same food, clothing and shelter provided to us by a single payer supported by federal taxation? From each according to their ability (to pay federal taxes), to each according to their need (for public assistance) is not what our founders meant by promoting the general welfare.

Vadinho said:

First of all, Trump has no clue what he is talking about and no one should take his advice for health care solutions. The man is a moron. Secondly, the rest of the world approached this logically and systematically with one goal in mind, universal health care for one and all. Until we catch up to their moral superiority and agree, no demand, universal health care, it will never happen. If you are interested in learning more about various forms of it, check out a frontline piece on it around the world, its on youtube.

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I feel like you're not really getting the spirit of my post there. And that's ok. I know you mean well.

ttwtt78640 said:

The majority of Americans want (and very much need) food, clothing and shelter. Does that mean that we should all get the same food, clothing and shelter provided to us by a single payer supported by federal taxation? From each according to their ability (to pay federal taxes), to each according to their need (for public assistance) is not what our founders meant by promoting the general welfare.

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Hey man, it's Trump you got to talk to. I'm just following his lead on this one. I agree with what he wrote in that book. He's very convincing when he wants to be, I'm sure you know.

ThoughtEx. said:

Hey man, it's Trump you got to talk to. I'm just following his lead on this one. I agree with what he wrote in that book. He's very convincing when he wants to be, I'm sure you know.

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Trump, or any other author, is free to express his desires. Trump says many things (sets goals) without any attention to detail mainly in the hope that someone can come up with a way to accomplish his goal then and he can take credit for having had 'the plan'.

ttwtt78640 said:

Trump, or any other author, is free to express his desires. Trump says many things (sets goals) without any attention to detail mainly in the hope that someone can come up with a way to accomplish his goal then and he can take credit for having had 'the plan'.

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Yeah, but he didn't say this, he wrote in a book entitled The America We Deserve. So, it's safe to say he probably believes it more than the garbage he spews to whip up his base.

Maybe, he's after Obamacare so hard because he really wants to put in a better system.

Trump agrees with you. He is going to make Health Care cheaper and cover everyone......got to love morons who called out Obama who said you can keep your doctor and not Trump on this BS....just shows to me Conservatives stand for absolutely nothing with the exception of winning....

Fraggle Rock said:

Trump agrees with you. He is going to make Health Care cheaper and cover everyone......got to love morons who called out Obama who said you can keep your doctor and not Trump on this BS....just shows to me Conservatives stand for absolutely nothing with the exception of winning....

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ThoughtEx. said:

I feel like you're not really getting the spirit of my post there. And that's ok. I know you mean well.

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I do and thanks for wanting what most of us do want. I just react strongly to any suggestion that Trump and his ideas should frame anything in public life even though the ingrate is our President. I cannot believe this once great nation elected this piece of ****.

Everyone needs healthcare, and it's in the interest of everyone that everyone gets healthcare. Healthcare is what holds up the power of the people to truly be people, regardless of their ambitions or the system of governance under which they labor. There is no society that typically benefits from being sick and rare indeed are the edge cases. To optimize an economy's healthcare system is to vitalize that economy. So, if everyone needs it, and everyone benefits from its provision, does that mean we need a single-payer system? Well, it might. I grant a significant concession to the argument. Yet to grant the universality of the need is not enough to prove the desirability of the universal healthcare system itself. A central bureaucratic structure is not necessarily optimal.

The challenge is to determine what truly maximizes health across society. What are the most important factors for the health of the people, and what best uplifts them? What potentialities for future change exist in medicine, and how can we build systems that will take up those changes most beneficial? Are there forgotten factors that have become unchallenged within the system?

Imagine if we decided to pour out healthcare resources everywhere people were sick! It sounds wonderful. Yet I ask you, pause and consider a specific example: Imagine if we decided that the correct solution to Flint, Michigan was to provide massive healthcare subsidies. It would be very expensive. It's far more cost-effective to resolve health problems stemming from terrible water by providing better water than by providing treatment for the implications of terrible water. If we commit to central provision of all healthcare, we will be very substantially committing to pouring out healthcare resources on all such problems present and future. While such practices provide vital information when problems arise and may ameliorate deleterious impacts, it is far from expense-optimal patterning. Unexpected health deficits anywhere risk creating unexpected budget deficits everywhere. We shall have to take greater care of our environment if we are to provide universal healthcare. Many poorer neighborhoods are tantamount to health hazards themselves.

Consider the aging population as well. Is anyone proposing to cut social security and tell people that they'll get their benefits in medical care? Are we to commit to making retirements less expensive in hope of reaping wisdom from our elders? Are we to privilege youth and workers so that the demographic problems of aging will be mitigated, telling older people that there is no room in the hospitals for the problems of people who no longer pay taxes? As the demographic issues worsens, will there still be room in the budgets to expand services again and again with fewer young people coming into training as doctors even as more elderly patients enter periods of grave need? Perhaps we can drive back the retirement age and start using a replaceable parts philosophy to bring Cyborg Grandma back into the workforce. Would seniors tolerate it? Will universal healthcare fund it? Would a bureaucratic system even notice such a society-changing potential? We are carbon-based lifeforms coming up on an age of printed organs. Politicians tend to be behind the curve of technology even as they deal with national affairs that turn on technological advances. Can we control our politicians enough to optimize universal healthcare in changing times? Perhaps! Perhaps if the goal were entered in with focus, such leaders would even be the best tool to truly lead, but can we trust political leadership at all in the present age?

It is not pleasant to consider, but if we leave people facing their own needs, they will often make different decisions than if they are told that their needs are being taken care of from above. Yet I am more uncertain of this point over time... Independence and being responsible for their own medical expenses has not stopped people in the first world from growing fat and inflicting steatohepatitis on themselves with persistent overeating. Few people realize that they lose weight when they exhale carbon and gain weight when they consume it. Nor is the present healthcare system much of a market, bound as it is in the arcane strictures of regulatory and insurance systems, with supplies limited by licensing laws and distorted by corporate pressures to supply what has the greatest return rather than what provides the greatest benefit. Certainly some reform should be attempted. Whatever is done, one of the key challenges will be to vitalize the systems of healthcare, and to ensure maximum productivity. Health is key to the development and maintenance of human resources. There is much to be done if we are to make the most of each other.

the only reason we do not have a universal healthcare system is because most people have never ever paid for their own health insurance .Only 6% of people pay their own way the rest have free insurance from their employer or they just do without.Now I had free insurance from an employer for 15 years and wow what a sweet deal that is,plus it is tax free.every consumer in this country pays for health insurance every time they buy a product or service but they do not all receive the giant freebie from their employer.

DeuceScrtr said:

the only reason we do not have a universal healthcare system is because most people have never ever paid for their own health insurance .Only 6% of people pay their own way the rest have free insurance from their employer or they just do without.Now I had free insurance from an employer for 15 years and wow what a sweet deal that is,plus it is tax free.every consumer in this country pays for health insurance every time they buy a product or service but they do not all receive the giant freebie from their employer.

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First of all, there can be only one.

Second, health insurance plans through employers are not "freebies." They are earned compensation just like salary/wages.

Third, employees often contribute to those plans.

we believe in a capitalism ! The way to get health care is go after the insurance companies. You think this univeral junk will work? People you should research before you say something.

ThoughtEx. said:

I am going to say something that most conservatives hate to hear.

The majority of Americans want healthcare. And although, I feel that the Federal Government is to big, I also think that the will of the people who are alive today, should outweigh the ideals instilled from yesteryear.

Another reason that I want it, is because it's pro small business. Not big business, who doesn't want it because it could mean a tax hike for them. But the small guy, who wants to pay his employees an honest wage and can't because he's required to pay their insurance as well.

I'm not going to make a technical argument on cost. Because, I'm an American, and it doesn't matter what it costs if it's the right thing. I don't think we as a country do the right thing often enough.

And you know who agrees with me? Donald Trump.

https://books.google.ca/books?id=PV...serve" "we must take care of our own"&f=false

So argue against him, not me. He's convinced me.

Click to expand...

Democrats are still pushing for universal healthcare. Why don't they all just band together and create their own program for Democrats? You don't need government for that. Or the rest of us. Make it a public sector enterprise. Get Obama's sorry rear end out of bed and crank it up. But don't think for a moment it will work. It won't. There's too many flakes, sponges, snowflakes, bureaucrats, illegals, and parasites in their ranks to make it viable. But hey, let them try. I'll just heat up the popcorn for the big show, LOL.