How about all those amnestees? And Carter only pretends to be a good man, apparently fools some, not most.
I think you just don't understand people who may be a bit more clever than you. No need for anybody to be a hater of this side for that, tho.
She may have not personally killed anyone but her words and actions cause GIs to die....Why do you take her word and not the word of the MOH and other highly decorated GIs. They were there not you. I doubt you ever served your country.
INDEED!!! She betrayed the trust of POW's and most likely caused the death of several. She deserves to die by firing squad... with no blindfold.
Alrighty. So yet you have no proof. If she was treasonous.. Simple, she would been tried for treason!
No she didn't. Those POWs themselves said that story was fake.
Pretty much. Can you name some of the US backed dictators from the same period? I can: Mobutu, Barre, Banda, Eyadema, Boigny, El-Sadat, Smith, Selassie, Tubman, Franco, Oliviera, Osorio, Duvalier. That's just off the top of my head. The premise that we "cared" about the "freedom" of the Vietnamese people is absolutely ignorant. We cared about them having a pro-US government willing to sell off its country to the biggest game in town. We didn't care about them being free. To claim the opposite in the face of the evidence available is ridiculous. We supported dictators. We allowed them to massacre their own people as long as US companies had access to resources.
Pretty much. Can you name some of the US backed dictators from the same period? I can: Mobutu, Barre, Banda, Eyadema, Boigny, El-Sadat, Smith, Selassie, Tubman, Franco, Oliviera, Osorio, Duvalier. That's just off the top of my head. The premise that we "cared" about the "freedom" of the Vietnamese people is absolutely ignorant. We cared about them having a pro-US government willing to sell off its country to the biggest game in town. We didn't care about them being free. To claim that in the face of the evidence available is ridiculous.
No she didn't. Those POWs themselves said that story was fake.
Not a problem, I specialize in flat liners, so if you know anybody needing similar enlightenment, don't be afraid to give me a nudge.Yea, you are brilliant, thanks for the enlightenment.
Why not name the [now] democracies we rebuilt. South Korea ring any bells [ what have we gotten out of that? ]...
Park seized power through a military coup d'état that overthrew the Korean Second Republic in 1961 and ruled as an unelected military strongman at the head of the Supreme Council for National Reconstruction until his election and inauguration as the President of the Korean Third Republic in 1963. In 1972, Park declared martial law, suspended the country's constitution and made himself President for Life while ushering in the Korean Fourth Republic. Despite surviving several assassination attempts, including two operations by agents of North Korea, Park was eventually assassinated on 26 October 1979 by Kim Jae-gyu, the chief of his own security services.[1] He had led South Korea for 18 years.
....
In July 1966 South Korea and the United States signed a Status of Forces Agreement establishing a more equal relationship between the two countries. With its growing economic strength and the security guarantee of the United States, the threat of a conventional invasion from North Korea seemed increasingly remote.
How about the $13 bil, again chumpish sounding nowadays, to rebuild Western Europe... how many dictators did we install?
Franco went on to rule Spain for nearly forty years.[2] He was able to hold on to power by playing off the diverse political factions of the state against one another and through his control over the armed forces while firmly repressing enemies.
...
This situation ended in part when, due to Spain's strategic location in light of Cold War tensions, the United States entered into a trade and military alliance with Spain as part of the policy of containment. This historic alliance commenced with the signing of the Pact of Madrid in 1953 which guaranteed American support for Franco's regime.
you avoided telling me what we wanted in Vietnam so bad..
Why not educate us on all those leaders you speak of...
Come on SMTA, are you going to deny that the anti-war movement in America didn't prolong America's involvement in the Vietnam war ?
And Jane Fonda like the "New Left" weren't against the Vietnam war. They were against the United States winning in Vietnam. Jane Fonda, Tom Hayden, the SDS, Weather Underground, Communist Party USA were all on the side of North Vietnam, they wanted the communist to win that war.
This democracy?
Park Chung-hee - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Yep... sounds just like a democracy we helped "rebuild".
Who said we installed them? We backed dictators. Here's a famous one:
Francisco Franco - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
The same thing we wanted in the Philippines by supporting the Aquinos - pro-US governments that wouldn't have an issue selling cheap resources to the US. Again, the Cold War was about money. The Russians didn't care about "freedom" either. They cared about trade and pro-USSR governments even if it came at the cost of millions dying. :shrug:
I already have. Your nearly illiterate understanding of cold war politics is shinning through. Now, I know names like "Franco" and "Park" sound "obscure" to somebody who has never even taken a course in basic Cold War politics, but it's really hard to argue that "Vietnamese freedom" was important when we couldn't have cared less about the other 100-300 million people living under US backed dictatorships. Again, that you don't know them - doesn't mean they weren't there. Then again, I can't blame you for not knowing them. You actually believe the Cold War was about morality.
Wouldn't that be didi ?
Seriously?
Do you understand the concept of authoritarianism or do you think it's just a "right wing" idea...
The Russians didn't care about "freedom" either. They cared about trade and pro-USSR governments even if it came at the cost of millions dying.
Tell me where I said anything like that.
while the worship of ted as some right wing hero is bizarre, didn't fonda attack POWs for claiming there was torture within the Vietnamese camps?
When you said >"I have never seen any credible evidence where she caused deaths."<
Jane Fonda was one of the socialist leaders of the anti war movement.
The anti-war movement prolonged the war in Vietnam.
Even John Kerry is credited for delaying the Paris Peace Talks for a few days when he showed up in Paris and unlawfully met with North Vietnamese government officials which resulted in the war to continue a little longer where more Americans were killed in Vietnam.
There have been more than a few North Vietnamese government officials and military leaders who after the war have acknowledged that the anti-war movement played a significant amount with helping North Vietnam to keep fighting after their biggest military defeat known as the Tet Offense of 1968.
So significant that an entire wall at the war memorial museum in Hanoi is dedicated to the anti-war movement in America. And on that wall are the photos of "Hanoi" Jane Fonda and John Kerry.
If you took a reading comprehension class, you wouldn't ask such a question. Read my post again - here, this part will help you:
The rest of your post is just more of your ramblings based on the fact you can't seem to properly understand what it is you're reading.
You just want it to be "ramblings" because it suits your agenda...
The Russians didn't care about "freedom" either. They cared about trade and pro-USSR governments even if it came at the cost of millions dying.
Funny how you don't list any of the crazy **** that happened in Africa when some of the most loony dictators of them all reside there....
I don't know what that means.
Eh, I'm calling them ramblings because they are. My post has a very specific statement about the USSR and the government they backed. It's not a positive statement. That you're too lazy to read or unable to understand it is your problem, not mine. Here it is again:
:shrug: - You seriously should consider taking up reading comprehension. It would save you the embarrassment.
Eh... what? I did list a whole bunch of crazy ass looney African dictators. Do you know who Mobutu was? Guess where he was from?
Dude. I've told you this already.
The POWs that supposedly got ratted out and beaten? They said that story was fake.
What is your point? you want me to be sympathetic to the Red Army, Lenin, Stalin etc???
Yes I'm anti-communist - I think that is plainly obvious, and in a free country I have the RIGHT to hold my own opinions and share them - you clearly don't believe that.
Lol - I'm sorry I embarrassed you by pointing out the fact that you don't understand posts you're replying to. Now run along and go find somebody at a lower level. You're punching way above your weight class here.
What is your point? you want me to be sympathetic to the Red Army, Lenin, Stalin etc???
Yes I'm anti-communist - I think that is plainly obvious, and in a free country I have the RIGHT to hold my own opinions and share them - you clearly don't believe that.
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