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America's Checks and Balances?

Montgomery

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The American system of government and law is about to fail and it appears there are no checks and balances to save it. It's almost certain that America is not going to be capable of carrying out a fair and democratic election.
This can't be brushed off as not a sign that fascism is about to eliminate America's democracy. Supposing Trump needs to steal the election and declare himself the winner on the night of the election, is there any checks and balances left that can come into effect to uphold democracy. I would suggest that Trump has control over all of them now. Even America's military may not stand up to be relied upon to save the country from Trump! Trump may already have the support of the military to carry out his plan.

That is, except one outstanding factor that can still protect democracy and that is violence by the good people who value their country's rule of law.
 

Mycroft

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The American system of government and law is about to fail and it appears there are no checks and balances to save it. It's almost certain that America is not going to be capable of carrying out a fair and democratic election.
This can't be brushed off as not a sign that fascism is about to eliminate America's democracy. Supposing Trump needs to steal the election and declare himself the winner on the night of the election, is there any checks and balances left that can come into effect to uphold democracy. I would suggest that Trump has control over all of them now. Even America's military may not stand up to be relied upon to save the country from Trump! Trump may already have the support of the military to carry out his plan.

That is, except one outstanding factor that can still protect democracy and that is violence by the good people who value their country's rule of law.
We don't need checks and balances against Trump. He follows the law. We need checks and balances...and vigilance...against the Democrats. For them, the ends justify any means.
 

GummyVitamins

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The biggest issue to solve any disputes in the election is to have a full Supreme Court. If the election is contested we can't have a split decision. The government, military, etc will then move to whichever candidate the Supreme Court decides in favor of. Or, they could demand recounts in contested areas. Don't forget there is 2+ months between election day and the swearing in.
 

Rexedgar

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We don't need checks and balances against Trump. He follows the law. We need checks and balances...and vigilance...against the Democrats. For them, the ends justify any means.


That’s rich........
 

RealityNow

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We don't need checks and balances against Trump. He follows the law. We need checks and balances...and vigilance...against the Democrats. For them, the ends justify any means.
You should use your time on the Internet seeking Psychological Counseling. the Confabulated Folklore of Lies, Deflecting and attempts to sanitize the vile of Trump has made you a die hard devoted cultist.
 

Decypher

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We don't need checks and balances against Trump. He follows the law. We need checks and balances...and vigilance...against the Democrats. For them, the ends justify any means.
The system of checks and balances as envisaged by the framers is not reliant on one citizen’s opinion about their necessity in a given situation. The Trump regime has a subservient senate and is attempting to stack the court. Thankfully he lost the house two years ago which reined him somewhat and is about to face the ultimate check in the form of the electorate.
 

Montgomery

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The biggest issue to solve any disputes in the election is to have a full Supreme Court. If the election is contested we can't have a split decision. The government, military, etc will then move to whichever candidate the Supreme Court decides in favor of. Or, they could demand recounts in contested areas. Don't forget there is 2+ months between election day and the swearing in.
I was suggesting that the Scotus can no longer be relied upon as a check or balance. Trump has now corrupted the highest court in the land with an extreme right bias.
And also fwiw, Barr is totally corrupt and biased toward Trump and can no longer be relied upon either.
 

Athanasius68

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The American system of government and law is about to fail and it appears there are no checks and balances to save it. It's almost certain that America is not going to be capable of carrying out a fair and democratic election.
This can't be brushed off as not a sign that fascism is about to eliminate America's democracy. Supposing Trump needs to steal the election and declare himself the winner on the night of the election, is there any checks and balances left that can come into effect to uphold democracy. I would suggest that Trump has control over all of them now. Even America's military may not stand up to be relied upon to save the country from Trump! Trump may already have the support of the military to carry out his plan.

That is, except one outstanding factor that can still protect democracy and that is violence by the good people who value their country's rule of law.

In the USA, the states control the election, not the feds.
They all have different electoral laws to decide how their electors are chosen. Those laws have differing standards for when recounts are required. So if there is a close election in say Pennsylvania, there might be a requirement to recount in Pennsylvania. That has nothing to do with Trump and Trump can't stop it.
All this talk about Trump "stealing" the election is insane and has no basis in reality.
 

Montgomery

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The final proof of Trump's malfeasance will come if the US proves to be incapable of conducting a free and fair election.

And along with that, if it works out without any serious problems then the onus will be on Trump's critics to eat crow.

In the meantime can we just ignore spammers like Decypher and company?
 

Montgomery

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In the USA, the states control the election, not the feds.
They all have different electoral laws to decide how their electors are chosen. Those laws have differing standards for when recounts are required. So if there is a close election in say Pennsylvania, there might be a requirement to recount in Pennsylvania. That has nothing to do with Trump and Trump can't stop it.
All this talk about Trump "stealing" the election is insane and has no basis in reality.
Let's use Penn as an example. It's become entirely possible for Trump to declare himself the winner on election night and then have the Scotus uphold his claim.

edit: I should add, in the days following the election and before the mail-in ballots are counted.
 

Athanasius68

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The final proof of Trump's malfeasance will come if the US proves to be incapable of conducting a free and fair election.

Not really. In the USA, the states, not the federal government, conducts and controls the election.[/QUOTE]
 

Athanasius68

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Let's use Penn as an example. It's become entirely possible for Trump to declare himself the winner on election night and then have the Scotus uphold his claim.

No, because what Trump says here is irrelevant. As has been said, its the states, not the feds, who control the election. There is no role for SCOTUS here.
 

Artymoon

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Let's use Penn as an example. It's become entirely possible for Trump to declare himself the winner on election night and then have the Scotus uphold his claim.

edit: I should add, in the days following the election and before the mail-in ballots are counted.
Just as likely that Biden could declare himself the winner of PA. He would have just as much right to do so as Trump.
 

SheWolf

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In the USA, the states control the election, not the feds.
They all have different electoral laws to decide how their electors are chosen. Those laws have differing standards for when recounts are required. So if there is a close election in say Pennsylvania, there might be a requirement to recount in Pennsylvania. That has nothing to do with Trump and Trump can't stop it.
All this talk about Trump "stealing" the election is insane and has no basis in reality.
The Supreme Court stopped the Florida recount Bush v Gore
 

SheWolf

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The final proof of Trump's malfeasance will come if the US proves to be incapable of conducting a free and fair election.

And along with that, if it works out without any serious problems then the onus will be on Trump's critics to eat crow.

In the meantime can we just ignore spammers like Decypher and company?
I agree. This election will be a test of Trump and the GOP’s malfeasance and abuse of powers. Biden is polling very well. I pray he has a blow out victory on the night of Nov 3rd
 

Athanasius68

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The Supreme Court stopped the Florida recount Bush v Gore

Because the US Constitution places the authority for electors in the hands of the state legislature. The objection was that the Florida Supreme Court was directing the Florida legislature on how it was to go about assigning Florida's electors.
 

Montgomery

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I agree. This election will be a test of Trump and the GOP’s malfeasance and abuse of powers. Biden is polling very well. I pray he has a blow out victory on the night of Nov 3rd
Thank you for your rational reply. A blow out victory for Biden is likely the only way to save the election, the rule of law, and perhaps even America's democracy.
 

SheWolf

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Let's use Penn as an example. It's become entirely possible for Trump to declare himself the winner on election night and then have the Scotus uphold his claim.

edit: I should add, in the days following the election and before the mail-in ballots are counted.
I don’t think he has the power to declare himself the legit winner. He will probably try to declare it, but that is not our system. Trump will do things within the system to clench victory. The only thing he has actual power to do is to file lawsuits. The states are in control of the ballots, counting, etc. Trump could try to get an injunction, but he can’t directly interfere with the ballots, ruling ballots are fraudulent, etc. He will have to go to court. That’s my understanding.

yes, it could go to the Supreme Court, and they could rule in his favor. It’s a corrupted system.

if that happens, America will be in for a crazy ride. He is deeply unpopular and there is already civil unrest.
 

SheWolf

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No, because what Trump says here is irrelevant. As has been said, its the states, not the feds, who control the election. There is no role for SCOTUS here.
What Trump says is relevant, and it’s dangerous. He also said he needs another judge in case the court decides on his re-election. The rest of the world can see what is happening and the danger Trump poses to our constitution. Stop making excuses for it
 

Montgomery

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No, because what Trump says here is irrelevant. As has been said, its the states, not the feds, who control the election. There is no role for SCOTUS here.
You're just wrong and the precedence to prove you wrong is Florida 2000.
 

Montgomery

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What Trump says is relevant, and it’s dangerous. He also said he needs another judge in case the court decides on his re-election. The rest of the world can see what is happening and the danger Trump poses to our constitution. Stop making excuses for it
It's not that Trump himself hasn't provided the proof that he intends to steal the election if he has to, it's only rebutted on the basis of him somehow making a joke about the whole process.

What on Dog's green earth has happened to Americans who can't see the great danger that is fast approaching?
 

SheWolf

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Because the US Constitution places the authority for electors in the hands of the state legislature. The objection was that the Florida Supreme Court was directing the Florida legislature on how it was to go about assigning Florida's electors.
The Florida Supreme court ruled for a recount. It was an issue of ballot counting. I highly doubt Trump will make this an issue of recounting anyway. He will most likely make an issue of stopping vote counts and not counting mail in ballots
 

Athanasius68

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You're just wrong and the precedence to prove you wrong is Florida 2000.

As per the USA Constitution, the state legislatures determine the format on how electors are to be chosen.
What happened in Florida in 2000 is that the Florida Supreme Court was directing the state legislature what it should with respect to Florida's electors. That's why it went to SCOTUS and ordered the Florida SC recount stopped-- the Florida SC lacked the authority to direct the legislature on electors.
 

Athanasius68

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The Florida Supreme court ruled for a recount. It was an issue of ballot counting. I highly doubt Trump will make this an issue of recounting anyway. He will most likely make an issue of stopping vote counts and not counting mail in ballots

And the US Constitution states that the state legiislatures decide upon the electors-- Florida SC had no authority to do what it did.
Mail in votes will be counted as per relevant state law. It is something I am sure Mr. Biden would also not wish to be violated.
 
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